Felder Combo Questions...

[Derek Arita]

OK...the wife is teasing me with questions about a Felder combo machine, so I need some info. What I'd like is a combo that has an 8' capacity slider, 12" or 16" jointer/planer and borer(mortiser). Can I get it in that configuration and about what kind of $ are we talking? What would the footprint be? What about a used Felder?

[David Kumm]

A used combo was just listed on the FOG. Send me a pm and I'll forward the info. And yes, you can get anything you- or your wife wants. A wife who asks about machinery is a dream we would all like to have. Dave

[Joe Jensen]

Used will be around 1/2 of new. There are frequently (like once a month or so) really nice used machines on the Felder Owners Group site. Fully loaded Felder 700 series would be $30K new. I've seen 2009 models for $12-15K

[Jeff Monson]

A used Felder CF741 can be had for about 1/2 of new as Joe stated, an 8' slider is common as well as the 16" j/p capacity. One thing to keep in mind is the footprint of the machine. A full combo machine takes up a lot of real estate, if you have a big shop, then no problem. Otherwise I'd suggest a KF700 saw/shaper combo and an AD741 16" j/p combo. If you are not worried about having a shaper, there are quite a few different K700 sliding table saws with 8' sliders on the used market right now.

Here is a link to the online Felder catalog, it has the machine dimensions on page 33. http://www.felderusa.com/kataloge_viewer.php?id=18&katalog_id=403&region=us-us&k_ct=US

You can price out new machines, see what the options cost and weigh your odds on the Felder site also. You do have to register to get pricing, but its quick and painless. There is also a N1 used machine market as part of the Felder group also. They wont bother you so registering is not a big deal. Good luck!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Derek, I bought a CF741 Pro, new, loaded, and Joe is pretty close on the price, slightly high. I haven't priced one since, but I bought before the economy dove, so wouldn't be surprised if it is less now. Exchange rates also come into play on pricing. Used is a great idea, they ought to last forever. Jeff is right about the used prices and capacities. I slightly disagree on the room it needs though.

The actual machine's footprint sitting without the crosscut table attached is only 5ft wide. 8 1/2' long at the slider side, and 6' long on the jointer/planer side. You can really stretch it out though, attach the crosscut carriage, and you add 3' 2" to the width. Attach the fence to the carriage and depending on how long your fence is, it gets pretty long. I can crosscut or rip an 8' sheet of ply anywhere on my machine, so in full swing, you can visualize the room it takes. The j/p side just needs a bit of room to walk around. If you attach the mortiser though, it adds another 16" width.

I find it amazing that the Unisaw (jobsite saw) sitting beside the Felder is actually nearly as large a footprint as the Felder at rest.

My current woodshop/staging area for new woodshop/disaster area, is a two car garage. About 22x24. I have the CF 741 sitting dead center turned 45 degrees. It works well, but the new shop will see the Felder with the j/p side close to a wall, with open space on the slider side so that if I am not using the 102" crosscut, which rarely happens, I can use the space for something else. Think of it this way, with edge of the slider a total of 8' away from the wall, I can fully use all the functions. Don't think of the space taken by a full capacity function as lost space. Those functions happen rarely, so usually you can use the space for something else, like assembly.

That machine you are thinking of is exactly how I spec'ed mine. I wouldn't change a thing. Awesome wife BTW, mine did the same thing in 2010 (hmm, maybe it was 09..). Personally, I was happy to take the huge hit on the brownie point tally to get a Felder. It's just inspirational to look at even. One thing you didn't mention is the power feeder, make sure you get one on the swing up mount. It works on the shaper, saw and even jointer, spectacularly.

[Charlie Watson]

If you are thinking new, the CF531 Professional is less costly. The base price of the machine provides only the relative cost because once you start adding options you can really drive the cost up. I just ordered the CF 531P with the 2500 table. It will fit fine in my 720 SqFt garage centered in the shop. Lead time is about 3 months.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

If you are thinking new, the CF531 Professional is less costly. The base price of the machine provides only the relative cost because once you start adding options you can really drive the cost up. I just ordered the CF 531P with the 2500 table. It will fit fine in my 720 SqFt garage centered in the shop. Lead time is about 3 months.

Charlie, your CF531 is going to be a very nice machine too. IIRK, it is X-roll, scoring, and nearly the same spec as the 741. J/p width and the way the saw and shaper assemblies are fit are a bit different. The 741 has interchangeable spindles on the shaper and different scoring and saw configurations. Am I correct? There are no compromises on quality, just a bit different design. Felder had, I suppose still does, a nice comparison on their website.

One more comment, Felder Owners Group was mentioned a couple times. I sure wish they would get away from the Yahoo format. I don't use it because the interface is so primitive.

[Jim Becker]

I can't help with Felder specifics, but can contribute that the space requirement for "length" of my 8' 6" MiniMax slider is 19' for a full stroke. Lateral space also needs to be accounted for relative to cross-cutting...from the blade to the end of the theoretical longest stock you want to cut on the wagon. If you work with sheet goods, that would typically be slightly over 8' so you can square the end of the material.

I do agree that you could very well find a pre-owned machine in great condition for about half original street cost.

[Charlie Watson]

They are similar except for the 16" capacity versus 12" and the 741 has additional options such as the digital controls not available on the 531. I know there are other differences but I am less familiar with the 741. Many of the upgrades are the same for both the 531/741 such as the power feeder with the tilting arm etc. I also like the fact that the extension tables are interchangeable with the Felder band saw which I'm in the process of evaluating.

[David Kumm]

The 500 series runs internals similar or close to Hammer with the X roll table and some 700 externals. Dave

[Jeff Monson]

One more comment, Felder Owners Group was mentioned a couple times. I sure wish they would get away from the Yahoo format. I don't use it because the interface is so primitive.

I thought is was the only one who did not like the layout!! A forum like template like SMC would be great. Maybe they keep it the way it is to keep the riff raff out (like me).

[Charlie Watson]

Dave - What is the source of your information regarding the 500 series? The research I've done says that it's a Felder machine inside and out. I've seen that comment twice now and have not been able to substantiate it. Thanks

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I was just looking at the Felder site, and it says that the 700 series machines have the "new 700 series" saw unit and shaper unit. The Hammer is completely different than both the 500 and 700, it looks to me. I wonder if the 500 has the same saw and shaper units as the last generation 731 series machines in a more 700 series case.

[David Kumm]

If you zoom in on the saw and shaper units of the 500 and Hammer they look almost identical. In 2007 or so Felder went to a double trunnion design for both the 700 saw and shaper and redesigned the saw quite a bit. Prior machines attached the saw and shaper from the side of the base which was difficult for them to adjust and sometimes made the elevation crank a little harder to move. The new design is totally different. The 500 and Hammer are completely different. I don't know much about the JP but the Hammer unit with the Silent Power head leaves a very fine finish. I've seen it demonstrated and the cutterhead may be the best spiral out there. Dave