Realistic expectations from a 2-1/8" forstner?

[Brian Kent]

I have a problem with a new Forstner bit and I want to know if my expectations are realistic.

First, I bought a "2 1/8" CMT Forstner Bit" from a reputable mail order source. The but what came did not say "CMT" but is labeled "Golden Goose". Is Golden Goose a kind of CMT bit? If not, I'll ask for an exchange or return.

Most importantly, I chucked the forstner in the tailstock, slowly fed it into my end-grain blank (making a cup) and it repeatedly stopped the Delta Midi lathe. I made sure it was at 250 RPM (slowest speed), pre-drilled with a 3/4 inch Freud Forstner (2 inches in an easy 5 seconds), and tried again. After about 10 minutes with no pressure, light pressure, or medium pressure, it was at about 3/4" depth. There were a few twirls but mostly powder. The 3/4" Freud gave all clean twirls.

I am not naming the company. I am just asking what realistic expectations should be for a large forstner. I had expected a slow feed at slow speed, with clean shavings coming off the wood.

I now have 3 kinds of forstners - a small Rockler set that barely works as a wood-grinder, a couple of Freuds that are amazing, and the "Golden Goose".

What should I expect rom a good large forstner?

[ron david]

perhaps the name "Golden Goose" may give you an inkling as to quality(made in China?). tools do not always come sharpened the way we like
the other thing is that you midi may not have the power for that tool. it is more than likely a direct drive motor and doesn't hold it's power like a step pulley setup(like gearing reduction). forstner bits do not use a pilot hole of any sort as it makes them more unstable. the centre prong helps to guide them esp at the start
ron

[David Gilbert]

I have a two Golden Goose "Jacobs Chucks" that are pretty reasonable quality. They were made in China a number of years ago and I'm guessing that Golden Goose is the company. Does the bit work in a drill press? Your expectations seem very reasonable to me. I would assume that you didn't get a CMT bit and should consider returning it or at least calling your vendor.

Cheers,
David

[Doug Herzberg]

Brian, I have a cheap set from Peachtree, I think, with which I have had no problems. I can stop the lathe or make them smoke if I put too much pressure on the bit, but as long as I don't punish them, they work fine. Nice curls, not sawdust. 10 minutes is way too long. I don't do pilot holes, but since you can use a Forstner to make overlapping holes for mortises, it doesn't seem like the pilot hole should cause a problem. I would try it on a drill press like David suggested, but it sounds like it isn't sharp or won't hold an edge. Were you using some killer wood with lots of minerals in it?

[Brian Kent]

I will try it in a drill press.

The lathe has pulleys and variable speed. I was on the slowest pulleys at the slowest speed. (I tried other speeds too.)
The wood is dry white oak, which is very tough. I would expect slow, not stop.
I tried it first with no pilot holes including at the slowest and other speeds, and it stopped the lathe completely with the slightest pressure.
The confusing-est part is that the points feel sharp.

And thank you all for your ideas and responses. This is the kind of check-list that is confirming to me that the nice company should send the one I ordered (by CMT). The receipt even says that they sent a CMT.

[Roger Chandler]

CMT is usually a fine quality bit........I have several router bits by them and saw blades..........Golden Goose.....I don't think so.....you should definitely tell them you want the real CMT bit [they are made in Italy, like Freud] or a full refund plus they pay back the shipping and pay for the return shipping as well..........I would demand it!

[Brian Kent]

I mounted the forstner on a hefty drill press, 1.5 hp 20 inch Jet, and I could make it create shavings. Back on the lathe, the force of the bit is greater than the #2 Morse and made the lathe either stop or spin in the morse taper, depending on pressure.

I wrote to the company and thanked them for their past excellence in products and service, and asked them to send the bit that they said they had sent on the invoice.

I will be happy to sing their praises by name when this is resolved.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Brian I would return the forstner bit, unless you are unable to do so, though make them aware of your displeasure.

You can sharpen forstner bits, they don't stay sharp forever after all.

Also forstner bits should be fed into the material fast, not have it sit there rubbing against it, and yes it should cut.

I have some loose HSS forstner bits (Freud), I also bought a set from BusyBee, later bought another set for my son, as I found the quality to be very good especially for the price.

I use them with my 64-460, normally before I use a bit I check it and often do a bit of sharpening, to make sure it is as sharp as can be.

I have a couple of thin narrow slip stones, and use them for that.

Drilling the core out first is a good idea IMO, it should make drilling the large hole more easily, going with a 3/4" bit first and then a 1 1/2" before going for the largest one should put a lot less stress on your small lathe.

http://www.busybeetools.com/products/FORSTNER-BIT-SET-16PCS.html

[ron david]

the teeth may be sharp, but how about the cutting edge between the centre point and the teeth. that does most of the cutting. I bought a 2 1/2" sawtooth bit from LV a doz years ago and I couldn't get it to cut endgrain worth anything; frustrating. so I made my own boring setup. I had to over the years on an ongoing job bore about 150 holes 2 1/2 x 12" deep in endgrain fir. that bit from LV was not a part of it
ron

[Brian Kent]

I double-checked and the first hole I drilled was a 1-1/4" Freud, so it had a pretty good head start.

[Michael Stafford]

I don't know what to say about your CMT forstner bit. I guess it could be dull.

I will recommend buying Colt Maxicut forstner bits. They are expensive but they cut better than any other forstner bit I have ever used. Available at a number of mail order and retail locations.

[Brian Kent]

Thank you, Michael for the suggestion. And although I had ordered a CMT, they substituted a "Golden Goose" instead of the CMT.

And by the way, Michael, I wish I had looked for that first, because they are on sale at Woodcraft for $33. I paid $23 for the CMT that was really a Golden Goose, but would have gone higher for a better working bit.

[John Coloccia]

Golden Goose? LOL. I think that's a Taiwanese company, actually, and their drill chucks aren't bad....weren't, anyway. I'm not sure what they're like now. As others have said, get an actual CMT bit and you won't have anymore problems. That is a large bit, but making dust isn't a function of and underpowered lathe. It's a function of a bad bit. I doubt anyone tried to scam you. They probably just picked from the wrong bin. It happens...I guess.... :)

[Clint Baxter]

I'm with Michael on the Colt Maxi-cut bits. Picked up a whole set recently. They are not only sharper, but they are made so the chips break up and don't jam the hole which causes overheating of the bit and burning of the wood. You can also get a morse taper adapter that pretty much guarantees straight holes when you use it in your tail stock. No need for the Jacobs chuck. Pricey? Yes. Worth the extra cost? You get what you pay for in this case.

Clint

[Jeff Nicol]

Brian, I think a lot of the problem still is with "DRY END GRAIN WHITE OAK" With White oak being on of the toughest woods to work flat grain let alone on the end grain. I also believe the little lathe does not have the power to drill that large of hole into end grain white oak. If you plan on doing a lot of this in the same size, getting a carbide tipped forstner would be the ticket. I have a buddy who makes a lot of duck and goose calls and he bought carbide forstners for his operations and they cut smooth as glass!

I think that on the drill press you had more power and did you cut into end grain on that test, and on the little lathe, it must be fairly sharp as it must be grabbing when pressure is put to the wood and the cutting edge starts to cut but does not have the torque to complete the task.

Still hope you get the bit you ordered, good luck,

Jeff

[glenn bradley]

I also agree on power although the quality of the bit would of course amplify this. Dad has the Delta VS mini and states that he has stopped the motor even when feeding very slowly with brand new, although imported Forstners. He will step up through the sizes to accomplish large holes. Time consuming but, he's not going to run out after a 3HP lathe for the occasional large hole ;-)

[Brian Kent]

Mmmmmmmmm. 3 HP Lathe.

But seriously, in addition to getting the right bit, I may need to use it on softer woods or drill while it is still square, since it was pretty hard to hold the round wood still on the drill press.

Or maybe just get a Robust or Oneway and be done with it. :rolleyes:

[Richard Coers]

I'm with Jeff, too much bit for the lathe. Power needed goes up exponentially with diameter changes in forstner bits. If you really want to use that bit for final size, take out the material with a scraper, then take out the last 1/8" with the bit.

[Jeff Nicol]

Mmmmmmmmm. 3 HP Lathe.

But seriously, in addition to getting the right bit, I may need to use it on softer woods or drill while it is still square, since it was pretty hard to hold the round wood still on the drill press.

Or maybe just get a Robust or Oneway and be done with it. :rolleyes:
I am with you on just getting the bigger lathe and be done with it! I did and still want more power!

Jeff

[phil harold]

Years ago i tried to make cups with a large drill bit
I had problems too
so I drilled the blank first
then made a pin chuck to fit the hole
rough turned the outside and a tenon
mounted tenon in a chuck
and proceed from there

good luck!

[ron david]

I have a problem with a new Forstner bit and I want to know if my expectations are realistic.

First, I bought a "2 1/8" CMT Forstner Bit" from a reputable mail order source. The but what came did not say "CMT" but is labeled "Golden Goose". Is Golden Goose a kind of CMT bit? If not, I'll ask for an exchange or return.

Most importantly, I chucked the forstner in the tailstock, slowly fed it into my end-grain blank (making a cup) and it repeatedly stopped the Delta Midi lathe. I made sure it was at 250 RPM (slowest speed), pre-drilled with a 3/4 inch Freud Forstner (2 inches in an easy 5 seconds), and tried again. After about 10 minutes with no pressure, light pressure, or medium pressure, it was at about 3/4" depth. There were a few twirls but mostly powder. The 3/4" Freud gave all clean twirls.

I am not naming the company. I am just asking what realistic expectations should be for a large forstner. I had expected a slow feed at slow speed, with clean shavings coming off the wood.

I now have 3 kinds of forstners - a small Rockler set that barely works as a wood-grinder, a couple of Freuds that are amazing, and the "Golden Goose".

What should I expect rom a good large forstner?
by the way, how deep are these holes you are making?
ron

[Brian Kent]

6" deep, per directions for the Rockler Travel Mug liner.

[Dan Forman]

Don't know about the bit, but the two Golden Goose chucks that I have are great, .001 runout for both of them measured on the lathe, way better than the genuine Jacob's chuck I bought for three times the price (and returned), or the chuck that came on my Delta Drill press that one of the GG's replaced.

Dan

[Jack Gaskins]

Brian, here in Indianapolis we have Menards hardware and I noticed just last week that they are carrying CMT fostner bits. The CMT fostner bits they are selling are in CMT packaging and they are lable CMT Orange fostner bits. Nothing says Golden Goose on the package. BUT the packaging does say made in CHINA.......

Jack

[Brian Kent]

And now I am happy to sing the praises of McFeely's, who made the mistake, and whose name I am giving because they are taking care of the problem. They responded to my e-mail with a phone call.

First, they will send me a replacement CMT forstner as ordered.

Then they also wanted to know more details about what I had received - the logo and the name-stamp. They never switched brands of bits and will be doing a search of their inventory to make sure that they don't send Granny Goose bits to anyone else.

Good service and good products. Corrected their mistake.

[Ralph Lindberg]

I've dealt with them many times over the years and this is exactly the kind of response I would expect from them.