Felder Band saws

[Charlie Watson]

Anybody have any experience with Felder band saws? Looking at the FB510 and would appreciate any feedback on their saws.

[Stephen Cherry]

I've seen one at their place in Delaware; looked comparable to my Aggizzani saw.

[Jeff Monson]

Charlie, the FB510 is a new flagship 20" bandsaw from Felder, I dont believe they have any in the US right now, but it wont be long (april) from what I have been told. I'm also waiting for them to arrive. It is just a smaller version of the FB600 which is a really nice bandsaw.

[David Kumm]

The 510 is Felder's new in house built saw to bring down the price from their saws sourced from ACM. They believe they can produce a saw of almost similar quality for less. When I looked at the FB600 in Atlanta the Felder people said it wasn't quite the machine of the 640 but would stand up to the hobby market well and I tend to believe them. Very well made and well designed. If I had a chance to pick up and older Bridgewood, Felder, or Laguna 540 ( not the lighter duty laguna ) I would take that and use the money saved to buy a bigger motor if needed. The older saws were 3 hp and the 510 is 4 hp. Felder has learned that HP sells in the US. At this point I would not put it in the MM20 league for resawing but at 500 lbs it is a stout saw. Dave

[David Wong]

The newer Felder 510 specs a 16" resaw capacity. The older Felder 540 has a 12" resaw. I have a 2004 Felder 540, and for hobby use, it has been great. Motor is 2.2kW (~3hp). I replaced the euro guides with Laguna ceramic guides. I mostly run a 1" Lenox tri-master blade.

[Charlie Watson]

I'm comparing it to the MM16 as they have similar specs. There isn't much information on Felders and of course the MM16 is very well known and liked. I'm usually not one to be an early adopter so the fact that there aren't any out there is a bit concerning. Of course it's also going to come down to who is pricing more aggressively as well. I was also wondering about replacing the guides with the ceramics, are they a big improvement over the euro guides?

[David Kumm]

Charlie, wait until you use the machine before deciding on guides. When you get into the saws that are stiff enough to tension blades the guides become much less important. I think I could run without them most of the time. The 510 should turn out to be a good saw and they may come out with an early deal but the MM16 is likely a better resaw machine. I think the weight is heavier and that usually is a fair indicator. The small table is the only negative. I prefer cast iron saws so take my advice for what it is worth. Dave

[David Wong]

I was also wondering about replacing the guides with the ceramics, are they a big improvement over the euro guides?

I replaced the guides in my bandsaw because the existing euro guides were gummed up when I bought the saw (used), and I could not seem to clean them adequately. I probably could have just replaced a couple of bearings rollers, but I took the opportunity to replace them during a Laguna sale.

[Joe Jensen]

The FB600 is significantly lighter than the FB640. I have a Felder FB540 and I was considering selling and ordering the FB600 (24" instead of 21") and my salesman talked me out of it. He felt the FB540 was a much heavier build design than the FB600. It's easy to look at resaw height and that's one of the reasons I was thinking of the upgrade. Having said that, I haven't had a situation yet where I used the 12" height I have today. I got my FB540 used for $1000 (maybe gloat worthy deal). Maybe look for used and have shipped?

[Craig Behnke]

I just went through the Felder FB510 or MM16 decision. I went with a FB510. The FB510 listed weight is 550 lbs, the MM16 is listed at 530 lbs. The FB510 has a 19.5 inch flywheel, the MM16 is 16 inch (i believe, correct me if wrong). The proper comparison is probably the FB510 vs the MM20, and the MM20 weighs 670 lbs and has 20 inch of resaw. That seems more apples to apples. But the MM20 is list price of $3,995 and the FB510 is list of $3,195, a meaningful difference.

My decision on the Felder was a mix of some larger specs vs the MM16 (flywheel, table, accessories) and some other qualitative issues that were not related to performance at all. The MM16 is a known commodity and gets superb ratings. I've used one just once and it was spectacular. I knew I was taking some risk with the FB510 as it's a new model that Felder is now making in-house, but I saw those risks as not great enough to not buy it. Time will tell.

I was in the market for a 12 inch jointer planer and a 16-20 inch bandsaw. I focused on Minimax, Felder, Hammer. I wanted to achieve multiple goals...get machines that would fit my needs, spend within a fixed budget, buy both from same vendor if possible (but not necessary), get good aftermarket support if needed.

I went with a package deal, a Hammer JP and the Felder FB510 Bandsaw.263009

I just got the JP and BS wired and running a few days ago, so I can't give a detailed review yet.

I will try to post a review after meaningful use.

[David Wong]

Congratulations Craig. Looks like a sweet setup. I have the older model Hammer A3-31 and it performs great for my needs. I keep one of the 300mm extension tables permanently attached to the planer out feed.

[David Kumm]

Keep us informed. The FB series have been getting great reviews. For those comparing weight on different size saws, keep in mind that the solid wheels are very heavy. the 19.5" wheel has about 50% more mass than a 15.75" so 50-100 lbs of the weight difference could be attributed to the wheels. Only relevant if doing wide resawing but should be accounted for. Dave

[Peter Kelly]

I looked at the FB510 at the Felder Showroom a few weeks back as well. Very nice saw, would definitely consider it.

[Rick Fisher]

Really looking forward to hearing what you think of the Felder saw. Its my hope to have more space in the future and have a second saw.. I would turn my current saw into a dedicated resaw and general purpose saw.. I like the choices you used, Mini Max, Felder or ACM .. ( I would include Laguna but nice choices. )

[Craig Behnke]

Keep us informed. The FB series have been getting great reviews. For those comparing weight on different size saws, keep in mind that the solid wheels are very heavy. the 19.5" wheel has about 50% more mass than a 15.75" so 50-100 lbs of the weight difference could be attributed to the wheels. Only relevant if doing wide resawing but should be accounted for. Dave

Good point David. the MM16 is almost the same weight as the FB510 with bigger heavier wheels. In theory ( i have no data to back it up) that might mean the spine/structure of the MM16 could have more steel and be more robust. I dunno.

After comparing Minimax to Hammer, one thing that I came away thinking is that the MM16 seemed to be designed to target professional or production shops vs. the FB510 designed to target high end hobby use. It's just my opinion, a way to think about their minute differences. Not even sure if it's totally accurate, but it's how I thought about them.

The comparisons between the two groups (Hammer/Felder vs. Minimax) were incredibly close. They are both extraordinary, superior quality products. Believe it or not, the machines were so close that the buy decision was tipped on stuff like accessories, mobility, both from same vendor, shipping dates, etc.

And since i'm not a production shop (but I do get paid for some stuff), I felt I would be just fine with Hammer and Felder.

[David Kumm]

You are correct Craig. Add the larger table to the weight difference as well. The MM16 is a small footprint resaw and the 510 is meant as an all round machine that will give you more table more flexibility but not meant to be a dedicated or everyday resaw. The felder vs MM is really an in the eye of the beholder comparison. Dave

[Charlie Watson]

My 510 is in transit and I hope to have it within the next week or so!

[Kieran Kammerer]

Curious as to if anybody who owns the 510 has any updates after using it for awhile?

Thanks,

Kieran

[Keith Outten]

I just purchased an Felder FB 610 band saw about ten days ago. It was the largest band saw I could get in my shop that is 220 volt single phase, it barely made it under the garage door standing up at 80" tall and 800 pounds.

I need to order a new blade for this saw, the one inch stock OEM blade is not much to brag about but it does outperform any band saw I have ever owned even with the lesser quality blade.

[Kieran Kammerer]

Thanks Keith. Nice looking saw. That one is probably a tad bigger than what I need!

[Joel Wesseling]

I just went through the Felder FB510 or MM16 decision. I went with a FB510. The FB510 listed weight is 550 lbs, the MM16 is listed at 530 lbs. The FB510 has a 19.5 inch flywheel, the MM16 is 16 inch (i believe, correct me if wrong). The proper comparison is probably the FB510 vs the MM20, and the MM20 weighs 670 lbs and has 20 inch of resaw. That seems more apples to apples. But the MM20 is list price of $3,995 and the FB510 is list of $3,195, a meaningful difference.

My decision on the Felder was a mix of some larger specs vs the MM16 (flywheel, table, accessories) and some other qualitative issues that were not related to performance at all. The MM16 is a known commodity and gets superb ratings. I've used one just once and it was spectacular. I knew I was taking some risk with the FB510 as it's a new model that Felder is now making in-house, but I saw those risks as not great enough to not buy it. Time will tell.

I was in the market for a 12 inch jointer planer and a 16-20 inch bandsaw. I focused on Minimax, Felder, Hammer. I wanted to achieve multiple goals...get machines that would fit my needs, spend within a fixed budget, buy both from same vendor if possible (but not necessary), get good aftermarket support if needed.

I went with a package deal, a Hammer JP and the Felder FB510 Bandsaw.263009

I just got the JP and BS wired and running a few days ago, so I can't give a detailed review yet.

I will try to post a review after meaningful use.

How are the machines working out for you? Does your JP have the spiral cutter?

I was at Felder today looking at the Hammer Bandsaw and JP.
Interesting company - Machines are made in Austria and the sales people work for Felder.

Hammer Bandsaw looks real nice but I think would order the 510 for the extra cutting height.
They had a slightly used Hammer JP combo machine, it was 50% of new price but without the spiral cutter.

Just started my search for a Bandsaw. Felder is high on the list so far.

[Craig Behnke]

Joel, I really liked the FB510 and the Hammer A3-31, I don't have them anymore, but not for any negative reasons regarding the machines. They performed great and I had very few complaints. I wound up moving and my new place has a small garage versus my old place where I had a dedicated 800 sq ft workshop. I'd be more than happy to give you more detail about my experience with the machines if you ever wanted, feel free to call me.

[Van Huskey]

I was at Felder today looking at the Hammer Bandsaw and JP.
Interesting company - Machines are made in Austria and the sales people work for Felder.



Just be aware that "Made in Austria" may not mean exactly what you think it means at least in regard to the Hammer bandsaws.

[Joel Wesseling]

I purchased an A331 and I'm picking it up next week. I Went looking for a bandsaw and got a JP.

I was told by the sales rep that all of the machines are Austrian built, except that the cast tables are made in Switzerland due to the enviromental regs in Austria.

I'm thinking about getting a Felder bandsaw in the near future.

[Joel Wesseling]

Craig, thanks for the offer to call you. Well appreciated but I will find out soon enough.

[Andy Giddings]

Do you know where they are made, Van Huskey?

[Van Huskey]

I purchased an A331 and I'm picking it up next week. I Went looking for a bandsaw and got a JP.

I was told by the sales rep that all of the machines are Austrian built, except that the cast tables are made in Switzerland due to the enviromental regs in Austria.

I'm thinking about getting a Felder bandsaw in the near future.

If he told you all the bandsaw parts were made in Austria (or Europe) then either things have changed VERY recently or their was a possible miscommunication of what the definition of "built" means. I am not 100% sure of the laws for "Made in Austria" but suprisingly to many the US has some of the most stringent laws in that regard. For example for a Swiss watch to be "Swiss made" it has to have a Swiss movement, it has to be cased and the final inspection must be in Switzerland. For a movement to be Swiss it must be assembled and inspected in Switzerland and 50% of the total value of the parts must be from Swiss origin. The issue is due to high cost of Swiss parts just the case or bracelet can be made in Switzerland and offset all the other parts in the watch so from a lay persons point of view it could be a 99% Chinese watch. Fret not you owners of Patek, Vacheron, Breguet, AP and the like those are indeed very nearly 100% Swiss, most actually all in-house.

[Van Huskey]

Do you know where they are made, Van Huskey?

They are assembled in Austria from a global network of parts.

[Andy Giddings]

Thanks, so about the same as "Made in xxxx" means in any sales blurb then

[David Kumm]

In Europe, final assembly can be as little as putting in the switch. Many Euro machines have Chinese parts, motors and some bases and cast iron. Doesn't make them necessarily bad. You do need to check the thickness of the extrusions and cast iron and in the case of bandsaws, how high they can tension if planning to resaw. Few ( or no ) saws come with any specs on frame strength. If planning on using carbide blades like Lenox you need to verify from owners how high a saw will tension. You likely won't find out from the manufacturer.

When in doubt about origin or build, price is often a decent indicator. Two machines within a 5-10% in price may not follow the " you get what you paid for " rule but a $2000 machine is unlikely to be better built than a $3000 machine. Woodworking machines are too competitively priced for much of that to occur. Dave

[Van Huskey]

Thanks, so about the same as "Made in xxxx" means in any sales blurb then

First, don't get me wrong I actually like the Hammer bandsaws for what they are, they are well made and price appropriately. Felder has very high QC standards and should not be dismissed on the basis of globalization UNLESS one is opposed to that for some personal reason, just important not not make a purchase decision based on what might be a misunderstaning. There are VERY few bandsaws made from 100% or near 100% EU parts (plus Switerland since they are a long term lone wolf). Speaking of Switzerland I know they are one of the worlds best producers of foundry equipemnt currently but I thought all the industrial CI factories were gone, I could be mistaken about that and would welcome any input.

Made in ____ means different things in different places and as mentioned the US has some if not the strongest laws (and the most vigilent care takers) in the world. We 'Mericans often apply this standard (whether we know the actual law or merely have absorbed it by osmosis) to all other countries. Japan for example has different labeling laws for export items vs items destined for the Japanese market. Made in Japan can in some export instances mean Japanese engineers oversee the factory on Mars.

[Joel Wesseling]

It was mentioned that the controls are Siemens. I can certainly check this, assuming the parts are labelled.

Selection of parts is the important factor. When I build things I look for quality parts and materials and they can originate from many places.

[Andy Giddings]

I tend not to pay too much attention to a claim that something is "Made in xxxx" regardless of the country. I think its more important reading honest reviews from other users on how the tool works for them and getting a sense of the capabilities of the supplier

[David Kumm]

Worldwide sourcing makes it into electricals as well. There was a period not too many years ago when Euro machines started having electrical issues. Turns out some Euro suppliers started putting different ( cheaper ) internals into their starters and switches.

Same for motors. Euro and US motor manufacturers also source different quality motors from different countries. US ones tend to be labeled, metric not so much. Dave

[Van Huskey]

I tend not to pay too much attention to a claim that something is "Made in xxxx" regardless of the country. I think its more important reading honest reviews from other users on how the tool works for them and getting a sense of the capabilities of the supplier

That is the key, country or origin should not be a badge of honor nor badge of shame on the face. There are some people who buy by country of origin, which is their right, but they have to dig pretty deep to get even a decent idea exactly what they are buying. It is rare for a company to make a full public disclosure and the only chance you have at accurate facts is directly from a source high enough in the company. In this case I have just that, Dave was actually there too at the time of the conversation but I do not think he was actually privey to that particular part of the discussion, he isn't too jazzed by steel framed bandsaws and was crawling around under one of the sliders at that point IIRC with by that time a luke warm cup of coffee in his hand or was it sitting on the saw carraige at that point. :)

Again, I think the N4400 is a great lightweight (relatively) saw. It is not built for serious resawing built for someone that wants a well built mid-sized hobby saw that can handle the majority of hobby level cutting I like it. Paticularly when it is on sale like it currently is for their anniversary or a new moon or some reason.

[David Kumm]

Pretty close Van. I was hearing at the time that Felder sources cast iron from three sources. One for Hammer, second for 700 and 900 series and a third for Format. I was also comparing the FB series to the Felder ACM saws in their ability to tension blades. The FB has since been redesigned somewhat although I have an anal friend who says the FB 710 is the true resaw size due to it's ability to crank a 1" Trimaster to 25000. Dave

[Joel Wesseling]

I'm not overly concerned of the origins for materials, parts and build. Just trying to find good machines that wont become a worthless pile of garbage over time.

So many choices available when looking in the USA, less choices here in Canada.
When I first looked at General International and Craftex, I was not impressed - mildly stated.
This was years ago, maybe things have changed.

Excellent input from Van Huskey et al. Thanks!

The list price for FB710 is $7K CAN. Now I'm wondering if I could save enough money for 710
You guys are dangerous:rolleyes:

[Denis Kenzior]

The Felder 510/610/710 line of saws are mostly sourced from China with final assembly in Austria. As others have said, they are not built for resawing or high tension. A friend's 610 would get a 1" tri-master to 20k psi with a nearly bottomed spring, and my 710 will go to about 25k psi. Other than the tension complaint, there's very little to complain about with these saws for the $. They're nicely built. The ability to use Felder / Aigner table extensions is really nice. I've used this on multiple occasions to resaw heavy boards. My 710 came with an electric brake which I prefer to the foot brake.

[Alan Lightstone]

... It is not built for serious resawing built for someone that wants a well built mid-sized hobby saw that can handle the majority of hobby level cutting I like it. Paticularly when it is on sale like it currently is for their anniversary or a new moon or some reason.

Van:

So what do you consider a serious resawing machine in their lines? Most (but not all) of my bandsaw work is resawing, and my Laguna 14SUV is clearly no superstar in that. Looking to upgrade.

[Russell Stanton]

Alan

Why do you say the 14 SUV is no superstar. I am looking at it to handle some resaw tasks along with other more general bandsaw type tasks. I don't resaw frequently mainly to do bookmatched panels in blanket chests, jewelery boxes etc.

[David Kumm]

My choice for a steel frame saw as a primary resaw ( other than the big resaws like Zimmermann and Forester, etc ) would be a Centauro based 700. Reasonable resaw height at 17" but not over the top like the 24x24. They don't take up much more space than the 24" and are starting to get big enough to carry a stock feeder.

My real choices are cast iron but that is just me 346577346578 The Snowflake isn't a true resaw but will tension smaller blades high enough to serve. The Oliver is my midsize 30". Pretty compact with a 14" resaw, 16" when I remove the top guides. At 30,000+ the top guide is irrelevant. I don't have a picture of my 36" Oliver that has 20" of resaw. Even it was never considered by Oliver as a true resaw. They made an even heavier frame 115 for that purpose. Dave

[Van Huskey]

Van:

So what do you consider a serious resawing machine in their lines? Most (but not all) of my bandsaw work is resawing, and my Laguna 14SUV is clearly no superstar in that. Looking to upgrade.

The models that end in 40 not 10. The alternatives are the Centauro built SCM/Minimax machines especially the 700 and above and certainly old American iron. That said those are more than most hobbyists want to pay for or deal with size wise and I am perfectly happy with my MM20/500 for the cost and space it takes up. Sometimes "we" tend to go overboard in these discussions since there is always "something better" but the 14SUV is actually a pretty capable saw in the macro picture. We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that many get a lot of quality resawing done with a 14" Delta. Don't let a machines theoretical limitations put limitations on you.

One thing I should say about Felder/Hammer machines is they always present to me with an air of care and quality of build much more so than the SCM machines. There is a brutishness to an SCM and a refinement in the Felders. Sometimes the choice somes down to details like these since both do the job they are designed for.

[Van Huskey]

Alan

Why do you say the 14 SUV is no superstar. I am looking at it to handle some resaw tasks along with other more general bandsaw type tasks. I don't resaw frequently mainly to do bookmatched panels in blanket chests, jewelery boxes etc.

That is really in the context of the thread and nothing more. The current tack of the thread is toward what would be considered a resaw in commercial or industrial terms not for the average Creeker hobbyist. Dave just pointed out that the Oliver 115 is what the company considered a "real" resaw but we are into saws that are easier to talk about their weight in tons vs pounds with motors that will dim the lights in the whole neighborhood as they spool up. It is all about budget and space and nobody is (intentionally) saying you need massive old iron or a shiny new Italian stallion to resaw no more than you need a Ferrari or a 426 Hemi with a 671 blower to go to Home Depot to grab some screws.

Bottom line if you are interested in a new bandsaw I suggest you start a new thread with your needs and budget and you will get plenty of input and you most certainly can get the job done for a budget that includes the SUV.

[David Kumm]

A good quality Taiwan resaw should be considered as well. Extrema or Tannewitz Power series in the larger sizes are heavy machines. You want a thick table and heavy trunnions ( usually the weak link in even the old cast iron saws ) heavy wheels on a steel saw, and a stout frame. The Taiwan machines may lack a little finesse but the heavy build in the frame is important.

I agree that I am always among the first to over engineer what is needed so keep that in mind. I enjoy the machine performance part of the hobby maybe even more than the end product. I'm starting to get interested in metal working machines and finding that is way more complicated. Dave

[Van Huskey]

346577346578


Thats a pretty Snowflake, I am saying with just a hint of drool and nothing I haven't told you before. I have a softspot for those mid-sized iron saws. I think it is interesting how the pictures screw up the scale, the 217 looks smaller than the Yates Y-20.

[Ben Rivel]

FWIW I have been very happy so far with my Hammer N4400 with the ceramic guides. I thought a lot about going with the Felder FB-510 when I bought my N4400 as it was on sale for IIRC $600 more, but I decided not to as I felt that it would just be more saw than I needed. So far I havent needed anything more than my N4400 for what I do, but I do sometimes wish I would have spent the extra money on the FB-510 just because. That said I like Hammer/Felder a lot and am hoping to purchase a Hammer A3-31 12" jointer/planer combo sometime next year funds allowing.

[Van Huskey]

FWIW I have been very happy so far with my Hammer N4400 with the ceramic guides.

The X-life guides are great.

[Ben Rivel]

The X-life guides are great.
I like them a lot so far. I never even tried the euro guides it came with, but I did keep them just in case.

[Ed Weiser]

Dave, i just liquidated most of my metal shop in preparation for a move. That's a slippery slope indeed! We talk about weight of band saws (I, too, have an FB510.) but in the 6 metal-working machines I sold there was almost 20,000 lbs.

[David Kumm]

Ed, my weight limit is 6,000 lbs as that is what my forklift can handle and the lathe I'm looking at weighs close to that. Dave

[Ed Weiser]

I'm leaving the forklift behind--new weight limit for woodworking will be about +/- 1000 lbs, what my tractor will lift.

[Joel Wesseling]

The Felder 510/610/710 line of saws are mostly sourced from China with final assembly in Austria. As others have said, they are not built for resawing or high tension. A friend's 610 would get a 1" tri-master to 20k psi with a nearly bottomed spring, and my 710 will go to about 25k psi. Other than the tension complaint, there's very little to complain about with these saws for the $. They're nicely built. The ability to use Felder / Aigner table extensions is really nice. I've used this on multiple occasions to resaw heavy boards. My 710 came with an electric brake which I prefer to the foot brake.

Old thread, but here I am near ready to purchase an FB 710 so thought I would ask a question.

I asked the Felder Salesman about where the FB 710 was built and I was told that it was completely built in Austria and the motor is built in Germany.. Sound correct?
Maybe He meant final assembly is in Austria?

[marty fretheim]

I would like to know that also. I have a 610 and it looks very, very similar to an Agazzani. Hopefully somebody can fill in the blanks, but it seems Agazzani sold out about the time Felder started the "10" series of saws. Always wondered if Felder bought Agazzani.

[Alan Lightstone]

I’m curious too as I just bought a FB710.

[David Kumm]

Panhans bought the Aggi designs. Qingdao ( google woodfast ) makes many parts and whole machines for many manufacturers. My understanding is they make stuff for Rikon, SCMI ( Chinese market only at this time ) and Felder. QC and supervision are the key as Qingdao cam make some good stuff. It's pretty difficult to lower prices an machines using Euro labor rates so more outsourcing is hitting the Euro ( and US ) manufacturers. Some US and Euro motors are also made in China so it is getting harder to figure out. Some companies do final assembly and add their own electrics after the fact. In Europe that qualifies as " made in ". US has different standards to label products. Dave

[marty fretheim]

Thanks Dave

[Victor Robinson]

Thanks for the information, timely as I'm considering a 510.

[Joel Wesseling]

The appearance of Axminster industrial series is very similar to the Felder FB series, and AX trade series appearance is similar to the Hammer series.

[Peter Kelly]

Funny, I was just thinking the Grizzly "Extreme" Series bandsaws look the same as the Axminster Industrial Series ones as well.

I'm guessing they probably all come off the same assembly line.

[bob cohen]

Hi Charlie, I've had the FB610 for about three years now, having upgraded from a 16 inch, underpowered (1 hp) laguna. It is one of the few purchases that I have never looked back on with regrets of any kind. Felder was really promoting hard when I was looking and so I got the saw for a great price. Just under $3k. The only extra I got was the extension table, which is cleverly designed and works great. The saw is a beast and I really couldn't be any happier. I have a 1 1/4 carbide for resawing, but mostly keep smaller, more versatile blades on it. With the big blade, the saw has been able to resaw everything I've given it, including some 16 inch wide brazzillian cherry, an extremely dense wood. Feel free to PM with specific questions, or if you're in the area (Clemson, SC), I'd be happy to let you see it in operation.