Tool box

[Jim Ritter]

I found a link and a very brief discussion about this tool box on a forum not about woodworking so thought I'd share it here, and maybe find some answers. Here is the box.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/27a89e54ddf351df28b9e4a5928d1965_zps3e7214bc.jpg
And here is the site with more photos. http://mantiquesmodern.com/item_details.php?id=499555 . My big question about the tools in the old box has to do with the brass triangle and what purpose do the curving lines scribed into it do or represent.
This so inspired me I've decided to build one. Mine will be a bit larger because I want it to house my 12" x 18" square. A bit more manageable than a Studley chest. I will be building my box out of teak ( left over from a job three years ago) but in the meantime I did a quick mockup from pine to test different layouts. Here's my first door layout.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/e2913fa9bbc7fc5bafce47adcff03efd_zpsc515f711.jpg
I'll keep you posted as work progresses but in the meantime, any thoughts on the old box?
Jim

[David Nelson1]

The marks you are referring to could be compass angles relative to a point on the triangle.

[Jim Matthews]

I would not want to have tools buried behind other tools.

I believe this box was designed for site work, and portability was the primary aim.
I work almost entirely in my shop, so rust prevention and access are the storage properties I value most.

I note the depth gauge in your measuring kit - I use that more often than some of the other items (like the framing square for example).
I would want the tools I often handle within arm's reach on my bench - not stashed elsewhere.

[David Keller NC]

That's a really cool antique. I wonder what it sold for, and my guess based on the tools within that it was an early 19th century box, and might even be late 18th century. Wouldn't be able to tell without closely examining the planes for maker's marks.

Intact tool boxes like this are quite rare. Antique tool dealers often break them up b/c the individual tools will bring more money than the complete kit.

[Michael Ray Smith]

I agree with Jim -- not real practical for in the shop. I also agree with David -- it's really cool!

[Jim Ritter]

I agree that for in the shop it is not the most convienient. The H.O. Studley chest was even more intricate but was only used in the shop. No this little one clearly has done some traveling. There is no photo of the back so impossible to tell if there were any provisions for hanging when not traveling.
Jim

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I thought I remembered reading that this box was actually of recent construction, (although containing old tools) and the fellow who did it has made others like this, often times cutting tools down to fit them. Am I totally misremembering that?

[Jim Ritter]

No you are not misremembering. I saw that discussion but I have a hard time accepting it. As someone else said often times toolbox sets are often broken of 'cause the tools are worth more individually. As I said I'm starting to build one and if I didn't plan on useing it it would be a waste of time. It is not an easy task to do it well.
Jim

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

From your sig it looks like you might have use for a nice traveling toolbox that shows off your joinery skill, assuming you do custom woodworking on the yachts and not barnacle scraping. I've always thought it would be a fun project to tackle at some point, though I need to make more tools to go in the box first.

[Paul Saffold]

Jim,
If I were building one, which I'm not, I would try to keep the number of tools included to a minimum. Having 4 squares, though 2 are the same style only differing by size, seems redundant. If you are making this to include all of your tools it is one thing, but if you are making a traveling kit I would go for a style of tool that could be used for multiple task. Regardless of the purpose, it is challenging to design one that will hold what you want and at the same time have tools readily accessible. I have enough trouble just getting mine up on a wall in an organized fashion.
Paul

[William Adams]

Very cool chest --- I think I saw better images previously, but not finding them now.

It's an interesting contrast to the Studley chest, w/ a definite folk art charm. Looking forward to seeing how yours turns out. I need to do something similar for my tools.

[Jim Ritter]

I gave a link at the top of the post with the locations of the photos.
Jim

[William Adams]

I meant that I've seen better images than at that link. I think I saved them at work, will try to check Monday.

[Mark Baldwin III]

I thought I remembered reading that this box was actually of recent construction, (although containing old tools) and the fellow who did it has made others like this, often times cutting tools down to fit them. Am I totally misremembering that?
My untrained eye says you're on to something. My eye keeps going between the saw on the front panel, and what appears to be a compass saw in the back. I can't help but notice the difference in the size of those two handles. If one is normal, than the other is either extremely large...or extremely small. After the saw, my eye moves to the planes. The scale is way off. Personally, I think it's a clever bit of art. But a functional tool chest? It'll take more convincing.
btw...I did mention untrained eye. I'm no tool expert, it just doesn't look right to me.

[Jim Foster]

The box is only 14"x10"x3.5", not sure what it's the owner's trade could be? Big city carpenter where you had to travel light? Installer of some type?

[Jim Ritter]

If you had better images I would sure appreciate it. Thanks.
Jim

[David Keller NC]

I thought I remembered reading that this box was actually of recent construction, (although containing old tools) and the fellow who did it has made others like this, often times cutting tools down to fit them. Am I totally misremembering that?

I'd be curious if you could find that discussion. If the supposition is true, it's a remarkable bit of forgery (I'm assuming "forgery" rather than "reproduction" or "interpretation" since it was being sold as an antique).

But you may well have a point - notice the spokeshave in front. Unless that shave had detachable, screw-on handles, it'd be extremely odd to see a woodworker cut the handles off of a shave. It wouldn't be totally useless, but it'd certainly be more difficult to use.

[Alice Frampton]

The discussion was on the Old Tools List in late January under the thread subject line of "Son of Studley" (it separated into at least two threads, I think - such are the downsides to email discussion). The information that there's a chap using existing boxes and filling them with tools to fit certainly struck me as the most plausible explanation for a number of questions I had about it. It's still an oddly appealing thing - and a tempting project.

Cheers, Alf

[Jim Palmer]

It's very similar in appearance to an old "Gent" style hobby tool kit circa late C19th, although nowhere near as well thought out or stocked as any of the originals I've ever seen. Definitely not a professional tool box by virtue of design or utility.

[Mark Baldwin III]

I'd be curious if you could find that discussion. If the supposition is true, it's a remarkable bit of forgery (I'm assuming "forgery" rather than "reproduction" or "interpretation" since it was being sold as an antique).

But you may well have a point - notice the spokeshave in front. Unless that shave had detachable, screw-on handles, it'd be extremely odd to see a woodworker cut the handles off of a shave. It wouldn't be totally useless, but it'd certainly be more difficult to use.

The fact that it was being sold as an antique tool chest, and not a piece of folk art (or what-have-you) really makes me question the site that sold it. It looked suspect to me from first glance. Right after I made my previous post, I went and looked at the link. Reading the description there convinced me that this isn't an actual tool kit (of any kind...gent, hobby, whatever). The dimensions are way too small to be useful. The width is about 10". Take that 10" and scale the saw handle from the front of the box. That saw handle is tiny!
Still a pretty neat piece of art to hang on the wall, no doubt about that. It would appear that the person who made it really put some time and work into it, 2"ish long plane anyone?
The more I've thought about it, the more I'm bothered by the fact that it is being sold as an actual tool kit. Either the seller has no clue about what they are selling, or they are misrepresenting it.

[John Coloccia]

My big question about the tools in the old box has to do with the brass triangle and what purpose do the curving lines scribed into it do or represent.

My guess would be that the numbers are angles, and that the scribed lines are either just decorative or perhaps they're part of a geometric construction for the various angles....which would still make them decorative.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

That's were I saw it first - Alf's site. (thanks for chiming in, Alf.) I followed from her blog to the Old Tools List. I think Joshua Clark's comment in the thread Alf references was the one I was probably referring to, and there was some mention that Patrick Leach knew of the fellow, although I didn't see his comment specifically.

I don't think in the end it means this specific chest was in fact made by that fellow, but it points in the direction. Even if it was, depending on how the antiques dealer came across it, they may be representing it to the best of their knowledge.

Regardless, it doesn't invalidate an attempt to make a functional version. I guess there wasn't much of a point in me bringing it up.

Myself, I've been wanting to make one of those roll-up-hexagon tool totes like in the Tolpin book.

[Jim Ritter]

Well I made some progress and some changes. And this is where I an at the moment. I made a new door, this one is 3/4" instead of 1/2" which gives me more room to inlay the tools into the door panel. So that is what I did.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/8f413defe0110192d7567c3b872c9f95_zps99b8fa0d.jpg
And with the tools installed.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/7b0d4c850113ffeeb39c22d90eb9ce73_zpsde305c4c.jpg
This is the layout of the box that I'm partial to at the moment but I've got some other ideas I'm thinking about but I want to run this one to the end. Anyway here it is.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/d686304f264e6aa5dda869db08fbe039_zps406a1a67.jpg
Chisels will be in a lift out panel in front of the spokeshaves, etc. That's what I'm thinking anyway.
Jim

[William Adams]

Nice! Did you consider having the brace partially outside so as to serve as a handle?

[Jim Ritter]

That is a great idea William, no that had not occurred to me. I do want the box to have a vertical orientation as opposed to horizontal. The brace is too long to fit across the top of the box, but I have a 6" John Fay brace that will fit. That would solve two space and weight problems at once. Thank you, I'm going to work on that.
Jim

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

That's cool, Jim. Looks very well thought out. Trying to cram as much as I can into spaces in my tool cabinet, I know how tough it can be to cram things in that space while still keeping things functional. Looks like you've got that taken care of.

I'll be watching this space for more - keep us posted!

[Jim Koepke]

My biggest problem with laying out a tool box is once there is a place for every tool, some new tool enters the shop and says, "hey, where can I stay?" :eek:

jtk

[Rodney Walker]

Pretty sweet so far. Just waiting to see it done.
Rodney

[Jim Ritter]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, unfortunately I've got to go away this weekend so it will just be languishing on the workbench. The only thing to add at this point is, I've weighed the the box and all the tools I hope to fit in and it comes to 31 pounds. Not too bad. More work on it next week after I get the few chisels I'm waiting on.
Jim

[Jim Ritter]

I made some progress on the tool box since my last post, here's where I am now. I chose two different dovetail patterns, a more decorative one for the upper corners,

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/18a1bcb40bce11af3c72881a27096ebb_zps9e080564.jpg

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/f5c00bdfb19fcac841e3ba3c24b317b0_zpsd364b643.jpg

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/7fd32895140aad453a7ffb2a4ac7b151_zpsdc72d469.jpg

The box assembled, but not glued, I've got other work to do on the sides before that.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/8c6aad9c7b041ded01fc7f542eb59246_zps24952d08.jpg

Then came the back panel. 1/2" teak same as the sides of the box.

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/046173229214ea6f6007d800dde75514_zpsdb3a3676.jpg

All glued up and sanded.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/a8a3f5396d158273dc8ee36115372497_zps9e134bdc.jpg

And a quick fit into a shallow rabbet into the box.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/44fb4e403341481983ed720169ea8429_zps3feb907d.jpg

I'm still trying different tool layouts. I got the chisels in and just finished fitting them with handles today. I've been working on other tools for the box which I'll be sharing in in a couple of days.
Jim

[Jim Matthews]

Nice! Did you consider having the brace partially outside so as to serve as a handle?

Now that's clever, right there.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Looking great, Jim. Did you rabbet all four sides, or just top/bottom? Always a bit I debate in this sort of thing, but I'm limited in tooling, so through rabbets are so much easier for me.

[Jim Ritter]

Hi Joshua, I did all four sides. I used a router table with stop blocks so I didn't cut into the joint, but came real close. Then just finished with a chisel. I didn't measure the depth but it's real shallow, less than a 1/16". It really give a nice clean joint on the inside and worth the trouble because it is now impossible to see straight through the joint. Plus the panel has something to register against when I do install it.

As to using the brace for a handle, I did give that some serious thought. But I decided not to use that excellent idea (on this box at least). The reasons against it were several. It would need to be at least a 10" brace to have enough hand clearance once it gets through the top. The only time I break out the 10" brace is dealing with fairly large screws, and that wasn't the scope of this box. I would have had to make the box wider than 12" because every 10" brace I have is longer than 12", and I didn't want to do that. Lastly I would have wanted the handle to fit through a hole in the top, which means the sides of the box would have to be clear to be able to lower the brace down to remove. That would have given up way too much space. I do appreciate the input.
Jim

[Jim Ritter]

I've spent my available time lately making or modifying some of the tools that are going to go in the box. First up is a tool that I wasn't sure was going in but I think it will work. It's an old Yankee 1431 "radio" drill. I bought it a while ago mostly for the chuck to get a Yankee with the ratchet up and running. This little one came with no handle, perfect for this job. So first order was to figure out where it was going to go, and then make the handle. I made the handle a bit more slender than an original one so it will lay into the box a bit closer. This is a shot in the lathe just after drilling the 1/2" hole to press it on the drill.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/74aaa1de3d66aaf6e6b194dd14196478_zpsc606620a.jpg
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/07b7b2d5cb0a2199d355caf4bf983640_zps7033495c.jpg
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/fe6a88f5e5dfdf8ce6a33f00935e26f7_zps22bf20a0.jpg

Next was a little bronze hammer. I turned the head and made the handle. The dimensions were dictated somewhat by where it is going in the box.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/9209a7012a7f7aa9c08605d2e4063728_zps938f8fde.jpg
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/c3aa6e6927f6a84fcda0723b10a749d5_zps11107187.jpg
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/a1f40b8825433b4383a36c50a5a05abe_zps945c8bdd.jpg
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/1b0fb026093401d343408cd6a7785c5f_zps69d6a359.jpg

This photo shows all the chisels that I re-handled. Most had none to begin with so no loss there. Despite different iron lengths I made the handles to make them all the same height hopefully to simplify their security in the box. I think this is where they will end up, we'll see. The 2" paring chisel on the left is a copy of my favorite chisel. Mostly used for trimming bungs, the short round handle just fits in the palm of the hand. It will go along the side of the box where it is, but I still need to fit the upper and lower blocking. You can also see where the egg beater drill is going and I've substituted a new brace that fits the width of the box.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/2638f8b42e6e4266250227e1d6fe9d13_zpsae2f8514.jpg
The next tool I need/want to make is a little 4" level. I'll let you know when I get that finished.
Jim