I broke my Starrett, any advice?

[Jeff Monson]

I finally found a great deal on a Starrett no. 199 level on Ebay a couple weeks ago. Last night I was going to level the
top on my tablesaw.....well you guessed it, I somehow knocked it off the saw and the bubble broke when it hit the floor.
I emailed Starret, the response I got was they can repair it, but it will cost $310.00. I only paid $155.00 for the level.
Anyone have experience with this level?? I can buy another one for less than $300.00, so is there another option here??

[Mel Fulks]

Sorry it's gone ,but you will find another good deal. Starrete has the bigger problem.

[Steve Milito]

You got a great deal, it's an $800 level. I would want to know it they were going to completely recondition it and certify that it within specs for the $300.

[Peter Quinn]

Sounds like you now have a $150 straight edge. Or a big bill.

[Myk Rian]

I repaired these for 20+ years. Let's see if I can remember the steps.

You remove the top cover. I believe the vial is held in a mount with one end fixed with a screw, the other has a screw adjustment.
Remove the mounting, then pull the end caps off. The vial is held in with plaster of paris. Dig it all out, and mix up some new.
You'll have to put some in one end, put the vial in, then fill the other end. After it sets, remount the whole mounting.
There should be a piece of heavy stock paper behind the vial. That's so you can read it.

To calibrate it, find a FAIRLY level surface. Doesn't have to be perfect, just close.
Place the level on it and let the temperatures stabilize. With a pencil, trace around the ends of the level.
Note the reading of the bubble, and turn the level 180º in the pencil marks. Check the reading.
If it reads the same error as before, you're done. If not, adjust out 1/2 of the error and do it all over again.
When it reads the same in both directions, you're done.

[Greg R Bradley]

I finally found a great deal on a Starrett no. 199 level on Ebay a couple weeks ago. Last night I was going to level the
top on my tablesaw.....well you guessed it, I somehow knocked it off the saw and the bubble broke when it hit the floor.
I emailed Starret, the response I got was they can repair it, but it will cost $310.00. I only paid $155.00 for the level.
Anyone have experience with this level?? I can buy another one for less than $300.00, so is there another option here??

We used $350 levels to level machinery - some costing $500K each and up to 30' long. Those $350 levels were accurate to 0.005" per foot. We used a $1000 Master Level, accurate to 0.0005" per foot, to check the $350 levels. We did use the Master Levels for checking level of Mitutoyo Stato-Apex measuring systems that were accurate to 0.0000008". The Master Levels are so sensitive that you need to let the temperature stabilize so that the heat from your hands stops affecting the flatness of the bottom surface.

You bought a $800-1000 level for next to nothing. It is going to be expensive to repair. It is only cheap to buy a used one because the US has chased all our manufacturing out of the country. I would grab another while you can.

[Mark Bolton]

I know this will go over like a lead balloon but you got a phenomenal deal on an 800.00 level that is now toast unless you opt to try to repair it yourself or fork the $$$ over to starret. But I have to ask, good lord, why? I mean an 800 dollar 15" level for a piece of woodworking equipment? I know it all comes down to whatever floats your boat. I think the slider in my shop saw an 80" stabila jamb level when it first hit the shop floor. After that it has seen a shop made straight edge for tweaks and that's it.

I can kind of see the $150 price tag as a bit of a lure as its such a deal but...

I would attempt an in house repair with whatever starret opts to pork you for a replacement vial and put the remainder into another level, highly accurate, but more reasonably taylored to woodworking. At least you can take it upstairs and hang a picture with it too.

Again, a great deal, but seems a little over the top. But if the cash is there, I guess you go for it.

[Jeff Monson]

I repaired these for 20+ years. Let's see if I can remember the steps.

You remove the top cover. I believe the vial is held in a mount with one end fixed with a screw, the other has a screw adjustment.
Remove the mounting, then pull the end caps off. The vial is held in with plaster of paris. Dig it all out, and mix up some new.
You'll have to put some in one end, put the vial in, then fill the other end. After it sets, remount the whole mounting.
There should be a piece of heavy stock paper behind the vial. That's so you can read it.

To calibrate it, find a FAIRLY level surface. Doesn't have to be perfect, just close.
Place the level on it and let the temperatures stabilize. With a pencil, trace around the ends of the level.
Note the reading of the bubble, and turn the level 180º in the pencil marks. Check the reading.
If it reads the same error as before, you're done. If not, adjust out 1/2 of the error and do it all over again.
When it reads the same in both directions, you're done.

Thanks Myk, I will contact Starrett and see if they will sell me a vial. Thats great info.

[Myk Rian]

But I have to ask, good lord, why? I mean an 800 dollar 15" level for a piece of woodworking equipment?
Ever consider he does more than wood working?

[Myk Rian]

Thanks Myk, I will contact Starrett and see if they will sell me a vial. Thats great info.
You can get them at Grainger, and maybe McMaster Carr. Probably Amazon or E-bay also.
Or, buy a string level and use the one out of that.

[Joe Jensen]

But I have to ask, good lord, why? I mean an 800 dollar 15" level for a piece of woodworking equipment? I know it all comes down to whatever floats your boat.

The master level isn't used to "level" machines, but rather to check surfaces for flatness. I found it indespensible for getting the cast iron top of my Felder Slider truely flat which made getting the slider adusted to between .003" and .005" above the table in all positions not only possible but not that difficult. When I rebuilt my 12" jointer I spent hours trying to get the tables coplaner with a precision straight edge from Bridge City Tools. When I used the precison master level I found that both tables had twists and they were not coplaner. It was pretty easy to quickly dial them into perfect alignment. Was this necessary, no. But I did want the slider adjusted close to the cast to for shaping and I don't think I could get there any other way.

[Jeff Monson]

You can get them at Grainger, and maybe McMaster Carr. Probably Amazon or E-bay also.
Or, buy a string level and use the one out of that.

Myk, the vial is quite a bit longer than any I have seen before. I will ck out Grainger and Mcmaster, I have not seen any that long on a string level?

[Greg R Bradley]

That comment about the string vial level does not make sense to me. Since Myk said he used to repair them, he has to know that a string level compares to that vial assembly mostly by the name. Maybe he meant that a vial like that would be good enough to repair a level that had been dropped and may not be straight anymore. If you have to flatten the bottom of that unit, it will not be the same as it was originally but it might be good enough for your uses.

Depending on your use, it could be that a new 98-12 for about $200 could be as good as a used 199. Joe Jensen's info on setting up a sliding table saw is out of my experience. I wonder if a $200 machinist level would be all you would need for even that job.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Myk, the vial is quite a bit longer than any I have seen before. I will ck out Grainger and Mcmaster, I have not seen any that long on a string level?

Jeff
FYI Older Dave White transits have a long leveling vial. Some transit repair shops may have replacement. Good luck. Tom

[Mel Fulks]

Sure,it's used for leveling machines. Even by those reccomending against it. Didn't know too good is not good. Can a master Mason use it?

[Stephen Cherry]

Great info here guys- Thanks for posting

[Joe Jensen]

Jeff
FYI Older Dave White transits have a long leveling vial. Some transit repair shops may have replacement. Good luck. Tom

That could work. For your use you aren't trying to measure, just trying to get the vial to read the same when rotated end for end. If not marked, just some fine painted lines would be fine to keep track of the bubble.

[Mark Bolton]

True I guess, but I have a hard time quantifying an 800 dollar level for anything other than extremely critical (read extremely well compensated) work and the reply was in the context of a table saw. In any case it's demise, while regretful, would simply be folded into the cost of said highly critical and hence well compensated work.

[Mark Bolton]

Joe,

Of course machine setup is critical. I guess it's just to the old question of how much is too much.

I consider the work we do on the high side of detail and accuracy though its not high art furniture. Given that I can't recall ever going to such extremes on any piece of woodworking equipment. I suppose we associate with similar animals, but I dont know that I've been in a shop that does either.

I understand that seeing these numbers can be very rewarding and also that often it's not wrapped up in the realm of business where at some point, whether satisfied or not, you simply have to draw the line.

A machine in its sweet spot is definitely, well, sweet. I guess it just comes down (to me) to a question of balance.

[phil harold]

I just used my 98-12 to level my tablesaw last night

did I need that much accuracy?
no
but it is sure nice to know it is!
I am setting my outfeed tables and my work benches with my rotary laser just because I will know they are the same...

[Myk Rian]

For crying out loud people. He got a great level for a super price.
What the H*** do you care what he uses it for?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother coming here.
Everybody knows better than everyone else.

[Jeff Monson]

For crying out loud people. He got a great level for a super price.
What the H*** do you care what he uses it for?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother coming here.
Everybody knows better than everyone else.

Yep, right on Myk, ask a simple question and it turns into an opinion poll on how unnecessary it is to own this tool. I dont remember asking for advice on what level I should use or buy, just on what my options are for repairing the one I already have. Thanks for your help, there were a few replies that were very helpful to me.

[Steve Milito]

I dont remember asking for advice on what level I should use or buy, just on what my options are for repairing the one I already have.

I'd be afraid to try to use such an accurate device in my shop. I'd probably give up in frustration because the bubble was always pegged to one side regardless of what adjustment I made.:)

[Chris Fournier]

I have one of these levels which I purchased on eBay for $75.00 in pristine condition. Lucky me except for the fact that I paid full pop for a 98-12 two months earlier. I would never consider using it to level a table saw, but rather to ensure that a lathes ways are free of twist. A wood lathe? Sure I guess. A metal lathe? Absolutely.

Not to beat poor Jeff up when he is down but how this level could ever be dropped and damaged I simply can't understand. When this level comes out in my metal shop it is the star attraction, the holy grail, the raison d'etre and any fall would be softened with my Starrett precision pillow.

[Ole Anderson]

I bet it would be great for levelling a pool table...

I see on the parts list they do list a vial, but I bet it is half the cost of a new level.

[Bill White]

I'm not EVEN gonna say that I have a set of machinist's gauge blocks, micrometers, vernier calipers, and squares. Overkill? Maybe, but they're mine.

Anything made by Starrett is top quality (as we all know), and a repair done by them is probably the best repair available.

Tough luck on the breaking of the vial, but a quality repair on and excellent instrument may be the best price/value option.

I've just never understood how anything can be level when the world is round. :)

Bill

[Myk Rian]

That comment about the string vial level does not make sense to me. Since Myk said he used to repair them, he has to know that a string level compares to that vial assembly mostly by the name. Maybe he meant that a vial like that would be good enough to repair a level that had been dropped and may not be straight anymore. If you have to flatten the bottom of that unit, it will not be the same as it was originally but it might be good enough for your uses.
I know there is no comparison between the level in question and a string level. The vial would work in a pinch.

When a level is bent, just flattening the base will not fix it.
I spent 1 week in Athol, Ma. at the Starrett plant. Wonderful people, and super great tools.

I got firsthand knowledge on building levels, as I sat with the fellow, and watched as he lapped the base. And then came the shocker.
Mind you this just so happened to be a 199.
After lapping it, he picked it up by one end, raised it up, and gave it a MIGHTY whack on the edge of his work bench, right in the middle of the level. This was to introduce a VERY slight bend in the base so it would sit equally on the ends. It bends the level by a few 10 millionths.

If a level gets bent, which would not be an easy task to do, sending it to the factory is the only sure way of fixing it. It would take more than a drop of a few feet to bend one of those. A corner might get slight damage, but that can be stoned out without changing the accuracy of the tool.

[Mark Bolton]

Not to beat poor Jeff up when he is down

I too didnt mean to beat up on someone when their down, my apologies. Accidents happen, I have had my fair share. I understand its no ones business what anyone chooses to do with their money, time, shop, pursuits, and so on. I just often find myself asking "why?" and wondering what newcomers or young people considering the trades think when the mere act of cutting a board in two, or even making phenomenally beautiful one of a kind furniture, becomes some monumental Pandora's Box of engineering. A machine shop, absolutely, completely different animal.

It often reminds me of astronomy/astrophotography. The never ending pursuit of less and less error in your equipment. I have so often seen it, and experienced it myself, to where an unwavering focus on the mechanics brings one to a point where they never look at the stars anymore.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

I bet it would be great for levelling a pool table...

I see on the parts list they do list a vial, but I bet it is half the cost of a new level.

Ole
$56.00 at McMaster-Carr for the 199Z vial.

[Jeff Monson]

Ole
$56.00 at McMaster-Carr for the 199Z vial.

Thomas, I looked on McMaster Carr after you recommended them, what part # are you coming up with? I found alot of different vial's but not 100% sure which one would be right. Thanks!!

[Greg R Bradley]

Jeff,
McMaster part # 21675A32 $56.00

That is half the price of the standard precision vial for my SPI Master Level

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Thomas, I looked on McMaster Carr after you recommended them, what part # are you coming up with? I found alot of different vial's but not 100% sure which one would be right. Thanks!!
Jeff
Hear is a link to McMaster-Carr Page the vial is for a 15" 199Z level. Good luck. Tom http://www.mcmaster.com/#starrett-levels/=lhq9xy

[Jeff Monson]

Jeff,
McMaster part # 21675A32 $56.00

That is half the price of the standard precision vial for my SPI Master Level


Jeff
Hear is a link to McMaster-Carr Page the vial is for a 15" 199Z level. Good luck. Tom http://www.mcmaster.com/#starrett-levels/=lhq9xy

Thanks a million guys, I was searching for "level vial" on MC Carr, I will get one ordered.......and avoid another accident at all costs.

[Mort Stevens]

Last night I was going to level the top on my tablesaw

FYI The base of the Starrett 199 level is concave - if you we're leveling the entire saw you're fine, if you were trying to level the wings across the table top plane the Starrett 199 level is the wrong tool. In other words the Starrett 199 level makes a poor straight edge.

[Myk Rian]

FYI The base of the Starrett 199 level is concave -
By only a few millionths. Did you read my last post upthread?

[Zach Callum]

Only a few millionths?? We're talking about woodworking here! I demand everything in my shop be accurate to at least .00000000001!

[Myk Rian]

Sorry. A few 10 millionths.

[Rod Sheridan]

"I dopped my Starrett, any advice?"

Yes, don't be such a klutz:p



Gee, that's sad, of course it's never the dollar store level you drop.................Rod.

[Chris Fournier]

I too didnt mean to beat up on someone when their down, my apologies. Accidents happen, I have had my fair share. I understand its no ones business what anyone chooses to do with their money, time, shop, pursuits, and so on. I just often find myself asking "why?" and wondering what newcomers or young people considering the trades think when the mere act of cutting a board in two, or even making phenomenally beautiful one of a kind furniture, becomes some monumental Pandora's Box of engineering. A machine shop, absolutely, completely different animal.

It often reminds me of astronomy/astrophotography. The never ending pursuit of less and less error in your equipment. I have so often seen it, and experienced it myself, to where an unwavering focus on the mechanics brings one to a point where they never look at the stars anymore.

I wasn't pointing out any one Mark, just qualifying my comment.

[Jeff Monson]

I too didnt mean to beat up on someone when their down, my apologies. Accidents happen, I have had my fair share. I understand its no ones business what anyone chooses to do with their money, time, shop, pursuits, and so on. I just often find myself asking "why?" and wondering what newcomers or young people considering the trades think when the mere act of cutting a board in two, or even making phenomenally beautiful one of a kind furniture, becomes some monumental Pandora's Box of engineering. A machine shop, absolutely, completely different animal.


No offense taken Mark, "why" you ask. Wish I knew, for me woodworking is a hobby (disease or addiction may be a more suitable term). I enjoy fine tuning my machines, making them the best they can be. I take pride in my hobby, I guess you could say. I pay far less attention to the tools I make a living with, as unfortunate as that sounds. When guys come into my shop, wanting to talk about how they spent the weekend working on their pride and joy vehicle, I just cant get into it. So if you make a living woorking with wood, I'm sure reading about me trying to dial in the top on my table saw.....gets the same result. I did purchase the level for more than just my maiden task, I also have a great friend that is a machinist, more than likely he will find more uses for it than I can. If he happens to break the vial, well I guess I can show him how to repair it. I was pretty bummed until Thomas got me the link for a direct replacement vial, as I want it back in the condition it was originally. $56 is not a cheap mistake, but I've made far more expensive ones.