Beaded face frames

[Prashun Patel]

Has anyone built a plunge router jig to make jack miters on face frames? I plan to purchase a flat-bottomed chamfering bit.

The reason I'm looking at a plunge router and mortising jig is because I have some long stock, and my face frames are a little wider than the available bits, and I have an underpowered router, so I'd prefer to route in multiple passes. All that makes it trickier to do on the table.

Would love to see pics and hear lessons learned.

[Alan Bienlein]

I originally built my own beaded face frame jig from a set of drawer slides and ground the bearing off of a 45 degree chamfer bit.
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Here are the results from having to do multiple passes.
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[Alan Bienlein]

I have since rebuilt the jig out of some 1/2" phenolic I got for free. The bit in the router table is from MLCS and is for beaded face frames. This bit makes a cleaner cut than the kreg Bit I bought on clearance at Woodcraft.
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[Lornie McCullough]

Alan

I am in awe of your jig; its concept, function, and its evolution!!! Beautiful!!!

Lornie

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks a lot, Alan. Yes, I followed yr thread in another forum. I was thinking to make one of those.

However, in the end I've decided to route my beads on wider face frames, then rip them off, and re-apply after assembly. I have a 23ga pin nailer. This method seems easier for a first-timer. I have one faceframe that is 84" long with a couple dividers, and I think this'll just be easier for me. Miters on those little 1/2" beads don't seem that daunting.

[Alan Bienlein]

I did my first beaded face frames the same way by applying the bead after the frames were assembled. Next set I cut the beads into the frames and cut the jack miters on the table saw. The third set was our kitchen cabinets and thats when I built the jig. I won't ever go back to the other ways.

[George Bokros]

Woodline has beaded face frame bits and also has instructions for making a router table jig utilizing drawer slides for making the notch cuts.

Any chance Alan you would want to go into making those jigs for us for our router tables??

[Charles Brown]

http://www.kregtool.com/Precision-Beaded-FaceFrame-System-Prodview.html

[David Kumm]

I use the Kreg bits on the shaper. To get everything exact I leave the frames wide, screw them together with small head screws, run them through the planer so they match and route them together. At least they are perfect mirror images. Or close enough for who it is for. Dave

[Chris Rosenberger]

Here are a couple of pictures of my modified Kreg Face Frame Jig for longer rails.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/chrisrosenb/Shop%20Album/124.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/chrisrosenb/Shop%20Album/123.jpg

[Anthony Ferrer]

Reviving this thread rather than starting a new one on the same subject.
First, let me thank you, Alan, for posting your jig and the inspiration it provided me. I saw it first on another forum and based my version on it. I bought several of the Kreg components (the clamp, the setup bar, and the 1/2" dowel pin), and used parts lying around in my shop for the rest. About $125 and I'm up and running. Only problem is that the Woodline bit I'm using, when set at 1/4" as specified by Woodline (and using the Kreg setup bar) the widest part of the notch is less than 1 1/2". So the rail didn't fit into the notch. I adjusted the bit for a deeper cut and then tweaked the ends of the rail and got it to fit. Annoying since it's harder to restore the setup, but I'll make a gauge for it. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the Woodline bits and if the problem is the bit geometry or if I've done something wrong. I would love to hear any suggestions.
Anyway, this is my setup. The shot of the joint shows the poor fit with the depth at 1/4".
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[Alan Bienlein]

It could be bit geometry but I would make sure your stock is the correct width. I've found that if I lay two or three of my face frame rails side by side and measure the total it will magnify any error. If they are suppose to be 1-1/2" wide then three together should be 4-1/2" on the money. Anything other than that will cause an issue.

I also ran a few scrap pieces with the beading bit I was going to use so I could double check the setup of the notching bit. Nothing worse than finding out after the fact that your rails won't work because the depth of the notch needs to be changed to accommodate the beading bit witch in turn will affect the width of your rails.

[George Bokros]

Has anyone made the jig that Wooline developed for cutting these? If so did it work and does it produce good joints and finish?

I have their bits but have not used them yet nor have I built the jig.

I see the KLreg system has come down from the ridiculous price of $499 but still pricey for me.

Thanks

George

[Anthony Ferrer]

Good tip on measuring the rails, Alan. Mine are spot on at 1 1/2". I ripped them 1/16" wide, then took a few passes with the planer to get everything uniform. The issue with the fit was that the notch wasn't 1 1/2", not the boards. That's with it set at exactly 1/4" (I verified that the Kreg setup bar was accurate). With the bit set to about 9/32 the wide part of the notch is 1 1/2". Then I fussed with the setting for the rail ends until it fit. When measured for depth, that was almost imperceptibly greater than 1/4" deep. The beading bit I started at 1/4" high, and it was close to perfect right out. I don't think I could dial it in any closer. So I think I have a working system, but it's a little fussier to set up than I would have hoped. I made a template to set the notching bit back to the original height, so it shouldn't be too bad. One more question: how many pocket screws do you put on the back of the 1/2" rails? I used one, but would love the security of a second. It just looks like it would be too close to the bead.

George- the jig I made is based on Alan's original, but it is very similar to what Woodline shows in their instructions. I mounted the whole thing on a board that bolts to my shaper, which created some minor issues with changing the bit. Nothing insurmountable, though. Does it work? Well, if I had more time and didn't have $70 invested in the bits already I would want to try different bits. You also already have the bits, so I would say go for it. You might have to fuss a little as I did, but I think the end result is a bit north of acceptable. I have one kitchen to build. If I was a professional cabinet maker I would probably plurge on the whole Kreg system.
Photo of my finished sample joint:
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[George Bokros]

Questions lead to questions....When routing the miter cuts do you feed from behind the router bit or in front of the router bit? I hioe I made my question clear.

George

[Alan Bienlein]

Here is a picture of what I did for the pocket hole screws.
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George here is a pic of the piece clamped in the jig and the notch already cut and returned to the home position.
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[Anthony Ferrer]

Thanks again, Alan. When I went from the bead back to the notch it didn't match up quite right. So I had to fuss again. On the bright side, this time it came out just a hair tighter. So I'm going to cut all of the notches for the first part of the project before I switch back to the beading bit.
I experimented with the pocket holes and found that I can do two in the 1 1/2" rail, as you show on your top rail.

[George Bokros]

George here is a pic of the piece clamped in the jig and the notch already cut and returned to the home position.
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Alan, don't you get any tear out without a backer?

George

[joe milana]

Just to throw something different into the discussion, here is a simple router jig I made to do some jack miters on a very large (12' x 2') face frame that I was determined to do in one piece. There is a scrap piece of maple face frame clamped in the jig for reference. The router rides against the plywood fence. The margins of the miter are lined up with the kerf in the backer fence (first left, then right), and the cuts are made. Not Ideal for production, but does a very good job if you take your time. Not sure if the jig, or my explanation makes sense, but it may give you some ideas.

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[Alan Bienlein]

Alan, don't you get any tear out without a backer?

George

You might get some tear out depending on the grain of the wood but 99.99% of the time when you run the beading profile it takes care of it.

[George Bokros]

Thanks Alan.

George

[Alden Miller]

Cool thread, glad to see it resurfaced!

I didn't quite understand how the jig worked until I went and viewed the video at Kreg on their jig. I think I will have to make myself one of these. Looks like Kreg sells the router bit I would need too. I guess I just need to go measure the beads that my W&H Moulder makes, as long as this matches up I am set, otherwise I guess I could check about getting a custom router bit made to match the beads I have the cutters for.

-Alden

[Stephen Cherry]

I guess I just need to go measure the beads that my W&H Moulder makes, as long as this matches up I am set, otherwise I guess I could check about getting a custom router bit made to match the beads I have the cutters for.

-Alden

Of course, Dave at Oella Saw could make you any sort of bead you would like. He's a great resource for any sort of cutting tool, especially if you live in MD.

http://www.oellasawandtool.com/categories/Custom-Ground-Profile-Knives/Williams-%26-Hussey%7B47%7DShopFox%7B47%7DGrizzly/

[Alden Miller]

Of course, Dave at Oella Saw could make you any sort of bead you would like. He's a great resource for any sort of cutting tool, especially if you live in MD.

http://www.oellasawandtool.com/categories/Custom-Ground-Profile-Knives/Williams-%26-Hussey%7B47%7DShopFox%7B47%7DGrizzly/

Seems like a good place to know about, I have been using Charles G. G. Schmidt but Oella Saw is only 20 minutes from my house and easily reached on my way home. Thanks for the info!

-Alden

[Larry Edgerton]

I use Oella for my custom knives in my restoration work. Great people. Knives are always perfect. And yes, Dave is the bomb.

I started putting the bead on the doors/drawer fronts. It has the same look, gives a slightly larger drawer and adds a nice round wear surface when the drawers/doors are open. I give customers the option, and they always pick the bead on the door. I did it in my own house.

Larry

[Alden Miller]

I use Oella for my custom knives in my restoration work. Great people. Knives are always perfect. And yes, Dave is the bomb.
Larry

Good to hear they do quality work. I spoke with Dave, I am excited to stop by and drop off some saw blades to be sharpened. I also have a couple cutters I need to have made for my W&H, it will be nice to be able to source them locally.

-Alden