Hammer A3-31 Hinge side adjustment

[Tyler Keniston]

Hi all. Any Hammer owners out there that have experience making bed adjustments? A bit specific of a request I realize. I ask because my infeed table is way out of wack and I am over on the hinge side trying to make some adjustments, but am finding it un-cooperative.


It is a new generation machine where the beds lift simultaneously, so the hinge side adjustments are made with 2, 5mm allen screws that operate similarly to the temple bolts on the other (non-hinge) side. Problem is I need to lower the table (speaking long axis wise) down towards the cutter block - I thought backing off the closer screw and advancing the rear screw would pitch it forward into parallel with the outfeed, but for some reason when I raise the rear screw (even with the nearer screw backed off) it simply raises the whole bed instead of pitching it forward. Looking at the screw placements, it actually makes sense because neither is past the half way point of the bed length (fulcrum of balance). So how can I pitch it forward without somehow pushing down on the front of the table... an imprecise and difficult feat I would imagine.


As a side note, I would like to vent that hammer tech support, while at times and under guidance of certain techs has been ok, has also at times been horrible. Didn't listen to my problem, just spouted rhetoric and then tried to make it seem like it was impossible my jointer was out of whack as it was, then started vaguely explaining adjustments that made no sense because it wasn't the model of my machine.

Do any other owners also find the Hammer literature on adjustments really lacking? Why wouldn't they include such an important adjustment as hinge side (which is a part of over-all) bed adjustments?


Anyways, my support disquiet aside, if anyone has experience or advice on this I would appreciate it a lot.

[Jim Barrett]

Where are you located? Maybe someone close could assist...I am waiting on an A3-31 and your post is a bit disconcerting...

Jim

[Charlie Watson]

Rod Sheridan has an A3-31 and is very knowledgeable about it. He answered dozens of my questions since I am in the evaluation phase.

[Jamie Buxton]

I have the first generation A3-31, so I can't be of much help. However, there are PDFs of a user manual and a setup guide for your machine on the Hammer site: http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/products/jointer–planers/jointer-planer-a3-31--310-mm-instructions-downloads.html?

[Ted Calver]

I just finished wrestling with bed adjustments on my 1st gen A3 31, but did not have to touch the hinge side. There were instructions on the felder/hammer web site. The two big disappointments on the Hammer were the flimsy fence and the poor documentation. I think we are stuck with the fence, but would have thought the documentation would be better by now. I recall getting a call from one of the sales people shortly after I received mine several years ago asking if he could bring a prospective customer to look at mine. I said sure and told him I had not run much through it yet. When we cranked it up for the demo it sniped like crazy and the sales guy spent 15 minutes on the phone with tech support trying to figure out how to fix it. I don't think the prospective customer was too impressed:) :)

[Tyler Keniston]

Thanks everyone for the responses.


there are PDFs of a user manual and a setup guide for your machine on the Hammer site:
I've looked through everything I can find (including the docs on that link) and unless I'm missing it, there are no instructions for the new generation machines as far as hinge side adjustments.

My intentions are not to scare people out of buying the Hammer, nor to trash on them. I've simply found some issues that I am hoping to work out with as little blood pressure rise as possible.

With that said, I did discover another issue that I'm curious if others feel is worth talking serious with the Hammer people about.
The infeed bed has a bow (across the short axis) right in front of the cutter block (not a good place at all). I measured the gap with feelers and its actually 8 thou! That's with pressure on the opposing side of the straight edge. With the straightedge resting its 4 thou on both sides. But with a board in the right position, it will experience the 8 thou difference, which i've confirmed with pencil marks on a board does affect the cut (the board is essentially tilted as in enters the cutterhead). Does this seem within tolerance? I sure hope not. I just have to decide whether I should ignore it, try some home remedy at flattening, ask for a new bed, or (pray not) a new machine. I see a scary rabbit hole here!

254020You can also see here the hinge side all exposed. It actually where the cast iron meets that gray metal that the screws rest. The bolts that tighten it all up can be seen in the shadows down to the left.
254021

[Jim Barrett]

Is the discrepancy in the table showing up in your results when you plane a board? If so how much of discrepancy are you measuring?

[Jim Barrett]

I just finished wrestling with bed adjustments on my 1st gen A3 31, but did not have to touch the hinge side. There were instructions on the felder/hammer web site. The two big disappointments on the Hammer were the flimsy fence and the poor documentation. I think we are stuck with the fence, but would have thought the documentation would be better by now. I recall getting a call from one of the sales people shortly after I received mine several years ago asking if he could bring a prospective customer to look at mine. I said sure and told him I had not run much through it yet. When we cranked it up for the demo it sniped like crazy and the sales guy spent 15 minutes on the phone with tech support trying to figure out how to fix it. I don't think the prospective customer was too impressed:) :)

Did you fix the snipe issue?

Jim

[Ted Calver]

Did you fix the snipe issue?Jim
Yup...the sales guy fixed it. The most recent problem required adjusting the infeed table and it was an easy fix. I was getting wedge shaped cross sections and after checking the relationship of the out feed table to the blades, figured it had to be the infeed table. The Oneway Multi Gauge comes in handy for this kind of stuff...also good for squaring up the fence.

[Jim Barrett]

Good to hear. I am looking forward to the J/P...using my hand planes to thickness rough stock is rewarding...but it is a lot of work!!!

Jim

[Ted Calver]

Jim, are you getting the new quiet cutter head?

[Jamie Buxton]

It seems to me that the links I provided above go to guides for the new generation machine. The pics all have the fence connected to the infeed end of the machine, not the outfeed, which is how my A3-31 is built. Or have there been three generations of the A3-31?

In the Setup Guide, in the link I provided above, it looks to me that pages 134-138 talk about how to adjust the hinge side of the outfeed table.

[Jim Barrett]

Jim, are you getting the new quiet cutter head?

Yes along with the digital hand wheel....

Jim

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tyler, the first thing I would do is check the table with a straight edge, not a ruler, which may not be straight.

Second I would contact Hammer and discuss this with them, rather than making adjustments..................Regards, Rod.

[Tyler Keniston]

In the Setup Guide, in the link I provided above, it looks to me that pages 134-138 talk about how to adjust the hinge side of the outfeed table.

That is not my model. In the pictures provided you'll notice the hinge is angled, mine is not. Very different system for adjustments I believe.


the first thing I would do is check the table with a straight edge, not a ruler, which may not be straight.

I appreciate the point but it is a relatively new starrett rule from a 12" combo square, so it is straight (confirmed against another straight edge too).

I guess my biggest worry at this point isn't even adjusting the bed as much as it is deciding what to do with that bow. It does affect the cut. It takes more material off one side than the other... Does anyone else think this is unreasonable?

I suppose I really should call Hammer back, I've just gotten frustrated a couple of times dealing with their phone techs. I wasn't left believing they really wanted to help.

thanks for the responses,

Tk

[Ted Calver]

Tyler,
I feel your pain. I agree with Rod that you need to give Hammer a call or two. Start with your sales person and ask for their help in resolving your issue. I had problems with a bow in my fence and the tech informed me that anything under 6 thou was acceptable tolerance for the fence. My fence exceeded that and they sent me a new one-- that was 5 thou.:) The tech should be able to tell you what their spec is for table flatness and if yours exceeds that, a replacement is in order--hope you are still under warranty.

[David Hou]

Hey Tyler,
Sorry to hear about the difficulties you are having with your unit. I purchased my unit used (older generation with "bat wing" beds) and the beds were pretty out of whack. I assumed that it was mostly due to my transporting the unit and then moving it into my basement shop.

I also called Felder/Hammer several times trying to get some assistance in adjustments and did not find the support techs particularly helpful either. They also tried to tell me that there was no way that the unit was as out of whack as I was describing and was generally unhelpful and sometimes condescending. I tried to set up an appointment to have one of their techs come out and service/adjust the unit, which would have been on my dime (travel, food etc.) back in Nov/Dec 2012, was given a date of "sometime" 2/13 and then when I called in Feb to check on an exact date, only to be told that they would not be able to do the service in Feb and I would have to wait until late March/April "sometime" and to call back again around that time. Needless to say, since Nov 2012, I've had time here and there to tinker with it and finally have it running fairly good though not quite at the tolerances I would like. In all, its been a bit of a frustrating experience, and I sure am happy that I didn't jump the gun and sell my 6'' jointer and planer yet!

I actually received a lot more help from folks on here as well as the Felders Owners Group (FOG) on yahoo. I had pretty much chalked it up to a bad experience thinking that the poor service was due to the fact that I was not an original owner, until I read your thread. Sorry to hear about your troubles, but as a new owner, I would expect more support from them. I apologize in taking this opportunity to vent my own frustrations! Hopefully you'll have more success than I did!

[Erik Kyren]

I just got an A3 31 and have been checking its tolerances and trying to figure out how to tune it (the manual is crap and the setup guide I found online has pictures for a previous generation model). I have a feeling they want to have these things set from the factory and not tinkered with by anybody except a service guy. If anybody gets their hands on a factory service manual, any PDF's would be HIGHLY appreciated!

Anyways in regard to your problem trying to get the infeed table to pitch down towards the cutter, have you tried adjusting the clamping mechanism for the table bed? You know the spring loaded lever that you press in and turn 1/4 of the way and it sort of 'cams down' the table against those temple bolts... have you tried adjusting the bar that cam slots into? If you lower the cutter side temple screw it won't pitch down towards the cutter unless that cam engages sufficiently enough to force the table firmly against both temple screws. Also I think unless you manage to get the hinge side adjusted to be the same level as the temple screw you won't get the desired effect.

That the surface of the in-feed table is proud by about 0.004" right before the cutter is a serious bummer. Fortunately it is in the center rather than one side or the other. If you joint all your faces/edges lined up with the center of the proud section it will probably be fine. I think the issue is greater when one side or the other slopes down or there is a twist along the length of the table. I dunno whether it is worth trying to wrangle another one out of Hammer or not. The proof is in the pudding I suppose. I would tune it as precisely as you are able, then mill some boards and get your square up to them. If everything joints and planes into right angles and flat faces then you are probably making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

-Erik

[Paul Straka]

New (and a few years late) to this thread. Getting close to ordering a A3-31 and was wondering if you were able to resolve the bed flatness issue. Just seems wrong to have the bed that far out right out of the box.

[John TenEyck]

This whole story makes me glad I bought a 1988 Mini Max FS35 J/P. The tables are dead flat and coplaner. I had to take the machine apart to get it down into my basement shop. That was not the easiest task but I got it done. A real highlight to me was finding that the hinges had and require no adjustments, no shims, nothing. The frame is machined flat and the tables are milled so that they line up properly. There's just no way it can be wrong. I still didn't expect it to be perfect when I got it back together but, much to my delight, it was dead on. I'm not slamming Hammer, I almost bought one, but I really appreciate the care with which Mini Max built that machine - in 1988.

John

[Brian Arbuckle]

I'm not sure if anyone posted a solution to the warping table issue or hinge side adjustments but I've successfully made both adjustments. I'll summarize the process below and if anyone has follow-on questions, I can get more detailed.

To fix the "bow" in the infeed or outfeed table, lift the tables up and notice two steel rods running across and under the bottom of each. They bolt to the hinge side with two nuts (don't touch these) and to the latch side with one nut. If you slightly loosen the latch side nut, it will reduce the compression from under the table and cause the bow to go flat. These rods control how the tables are raised and lowered so do not loosen too much or the tables may creep down over time. If you have a Oneway gauge, it is easy to determine when the bow is gone and I was satisfied when I was within .001". I started at .008".

For the hinge side adjustment you'll need to take the back cover off and then loosen the four black bolts that pass through from the planer housing, through the hinge brackets, with nuts under the hinges on the back of the machine. There are two allen head set screws, one is one size larger than the other. One is located on the top of the hinge closest to the cutterhead and the other is under the hinge just above the white capacitors (the allen wrench for this one needs to be used up into the allen screw). My infeed table was too high at the cutterhead and too low on the outside so I had to loosen the allen screw closest to the cutterhead and then extend the one next to the capacitor. This brought the infeed table coplaner with the outfeed table on the hinge side. I then went to the latch side and adjusted the temple bolts until the infeed table near the cutterhead measured the same on the hinge and latch sides. After checking everything, I noticed the latch side end of the infeed table was drooping and had to perform the adjustment Erik mentions above. I loosened the two silver bolts that the table latches onto (inside planer housing) and raised the latch mechanism by turning the two adjustment nuts. This allowed the latch to tip the table until the outside was coplaner with the outfeed table on the latch side. After this, I had to adjust the temple screws again so the contacted the table evenly. Went back and fine tuned the hinge side. Did another fine tuning on the latch side, and then tightened everything up. The Oneway gage is key when adjusting the latch side because it shows you when the temple bolts have equal pressure. When you tighten the latch, the reading shouldn't change more than .001"-.002". If it does, you need to raise or lower one of the temple bolts. It took me a few hours to figure out how to make all the adjustments. My only real complaint is that the bolt threads are too coarse so it is hard to hold the adjustments when locking all the bolts tight. It takes a little fudge factor and trial and error but it is doable.

Good Luck,
Brian

[Brian Arbuckle]

The images below show the process of fixing the bow on the infeed and outfeed tables that many of us experience with the Hammer A3 machines. The most concerning location of the bow is near the cutterhead but it can also occur approximately one foot away from the cutterhead. Both locations are directly above the table tensioning rods.

352867

Zero your gauge on something flat.

352868

Check for bow on back and front of table.

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352870

Loosen tensioning rods to remove bow.

352871

Verify adjustment is correcting issue and continuing making adjustments until problem disappears.

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[Sebastien La Madeleine]

Fantastic, thanks Brian!

Sébastien

[Brian Arbuckle]

Here are pictures of how to adjust the hinge side of the infeed table. To see if you need to make this adjustment, place a straightedge across the outfeed and infeed tables on the hinge side and then raise the infeed table until it makes contact with the straight edge. You'll need to decide how out of adjustment the tables need to be before making a change. My infeed table was 1/4" high at the cuttterhead (low away from the cutterhead) so I needed to correct this.

Remove hinge cover.

352874

Remove back cover. While you are in here, clean and grease the chain. Clean the drive belt and check the belt tension. If loose, lower the motor to tighten it up.

352875

Loosen 4 hinge mounting bolts. The nuts are shown in the picture above.

352876

To tip the infeed table up or down, you'll need to adjust both the front and back set screws. They are both allen screws. To tip the table towards the cutterhead, loosen the front one and tighten the back one. Lower the tables back down to check progress frequently.

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This is the back set screw and the one you'll need to extend to raise the outside of the infeed table.

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I was able to get the hinge side of the infeed table coplaner with the outfeed table within .003". I then began adjusting the latch side of the table. See the next reply for latch side adjustments.

[Brian Arbuckle]

After making the adjustments below to the latch side, the hinge side became .008" out of adjustment so I performed the hinge and latch side adjustments again. When rechecking, everything was within .003" and I stopped...good enough.

For latch adjustments, place a Oneway gauge on the hinge side of the cutterhead with the indicator touching the cutterhead cylinder (not the carbide inserts). Move the gauge towards the cutterhead and then away until you locate the top dead center of the cuttehead. Rotate the dial indicator until it reads .000".

352882

My infeed table was .010" high on the latch side so I needed to lower it. It was also about 1/4" low on the far right of the infeed table (outside) on the latch side. Basically my infeed table was in a twisted orientation to the outfeed.

352883

Loosen the lock nuts below both temple bolts. Lower the table, lightly lock the table down, place your oneway gauge on the latch side of the infeed table and on the cutterhead. With finger pressure, lightly twist the temple bolts until they both make contact with the underside of the infeed table. Loosen the locking mechanism then while watching the gauge, tighten it fully. If the gauge moves more than a couple thousands, the temple bolts are not making equal contact with the table. With trial and error, looosen/tighten the bolts slightly then unlock/lock the latch until the gauge does not move during the locking process. Now your temple bolts are in line with each other and you can equally loosen/tighten then until your dial indicator reads zero.

352884

Place a straightedge across the outfeed/infeed tables on the latch side and see if the outside of the infeed table is in line. Most likely it will be lower or drooping down so you will need to tip the table dropping the cutterhead side and raising the outside. This is done by adjusting the latch mechanism.

352886

If you have a droopy table, lower the temple bolt closest to the cutterhead and raise the temple bold furthest away then loosen the latch bolts and adjust the two locking nuts. Lightly latch the table. Check with a straightedge to see your progress. When the outside has raised up to within a few thousands, repeat the temple bolt adjustments above until they touch the bottomside of the infeed table again. Make small changes, check, and then adjust again. When everything is close, check the hinge side again with a straightedge because latch side adjustments will most likely throw the hinge side out of alignment. Redo the hinge side then come back to the latch and perform additional minor adjustments. When everything looks good, carefully tighten down all the locking nuts and bolts paying close attention to your gauge. The gauge should not change when tightening everything down but the threads are so coarse that a slight twist will change the heights. Good luck!

Finally, check the jointer operation for snipe, sprung joints, and splayed joints. Snipe occurs when the outfeed table is above the height of the knives or dramatically below the knives. The table should be set at .001" below the top of the knives to produce an ideal jointed edge (slightly sprung or when two board edges are placed together they will be touching on the ends and slightly apart in the middle. When slight clamping pressure is applied across the middle, the joint should come together completely). An easy way to check this measurement is to lower the infeed table to take about a 1/16" cut. Joint the first 3-4 inches of a boards edge (until it just goes past the leading edge of the outfeed table) then turn off the machine. Take this board and slide it over the front edge of the outfeed table. Use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the board's edge and the outfeed table. If the outfeed table is too high, the board will hit the front edge of the outfeed table. A flat edge will be produced if 100% level. An ideal sprung joint will be produced when .001" or so below the cutting edge. To adjust the outfeed table up or down, take a wrench and rotate the outfeed mechanism at the square pivot point below. Check the measurement again and continue making measurements until you're happy. As a final test, joint the edges of two boards, put them together, and confirm you have a slightly sprung joint.

352889

[Lawrence Seals]

Thank you so very much for taking the time to put together this post! Your detailed instruction has helped me immensely. I have the HAMMER A3-41 and man was the infeed side out of coplaner! You would think that they would deliver these machines to be ready to go, especially considering the high cost. Anyway, your instruction made my day a hell of a lot easier to deal with.

Thanks again!

[Morgan Patton]

I'd like to thank Brian Arbuckle for providing instructions where Felder won't.

I received an A3-31 about a month ago and it came poorly adjusted and with both jointer tables not flat. Thanks to Brian's above instructions and other research, I have managed to get the planer adjusted and working well but I can't seem to compensate for the jointer tables not being flat. The outfeed table dips down to as much as .005" in the middle of the long direction, is pretty flat across the short section (-.002") but dips down as low as .01" when measured from one corner to another. The infeed table isn't much better. I have managed to get the outfeed table level with the cutterhead and have made sure the temple bolts are hitting the tables with even pressure. After talking with Felder tech support (again) today, he said that the temple bolts don't need to evenly touch the table and, in fact, I should use them to twist the tables in the opposite direction that they're currently twisted in. I tried this and, while it does flatten out the low point that is measured from one corner to another, it creates a low spot in the other direction (measured from the opposite corner to the opposite corner). So, the best I can get from a .01" low dip in one direction is a .005" dip in both directions. The Felder tech also said not to concentrate so much on the numbers and just worry about if it joints boards properly. Well, it doesn't, the boards come out being about as flat as the tables, not. When I put two jointed boards together, the gap is as much as .025". That is way too big of a sprung joint for me. There is also a sizable dip when measuring the boards from corner to corner, just like on the tables.

At this point, I have already lost way too many work days messing with this machine and I've already lost one big job to the wasted time. I'm definitely never buying anything from Felder again and, honestly, even if I was able to get this machine adjusted properly, I'm realizing there is no one locally that could ever repair it. I tried local machine repair companies and none of them have ever seen one of these machines in person. It's been a very expensive lesson but I now know I should never by a piece of machinery that can't be worked on locally. I'm now stuck with a very expensive planer that takes up the space of a combo.

[Bill McNiel]

Kudos Brian for taking the time and energy to put together this informative, comprehensive guide to tuning a Hammer A3. You have my heartfelt gratitude for leading me out of the weeds, I am truly indebted to you sir.

Again, many thanks - Bill

[greg bulman]

The felder rep called a couple of days ago and I almost put deposit on this same unit. Starting to think that would have been a bad decision. Think I might go the separates route.

[Julie Moriarty]

I just did a few tests on my brand spanking new A3-31. If I set the dial to 0 at the center, the back runs .003" high and the front is .005". Taking a measurement from the outfeed side of the table, setting the dial to 0 one inch into the infeed table, at 18" the table drops off .015".

[Bill McNiel]

I just did a few tests on my brand spanking new A3-31. If I set the dial to 0 at the center, the back runs .003" high and the front is .005". Taking a measurement from the outfeed side of the table, setting the dial to 0 one inch into the infeed table, at 18" the table drops off .015".

Yesterday I followed Brian's procedure for removing the "Bows" and it worked really well. I now have only a couple of .001" cavities when the tables are checked with a straight edge, and confirmed with my Oneway, front to back, end to end and the diagonals. Additionally, the infeed and outfeed are coplanar. Today's task is to get them coplar with the cutting head which will probably create some residual issues.
Without Brian's post and the Heartwood link I would be lost and pissed, instead I am more in Rod's camp, I think it was Rod who pointed out that tuning a new toy teaches you how it really functions and is a valuable educational process. The bottom line is that Felder/Hammer should really put together a comprehensive Owners Manual and service protocol for these tools.

[Julie Moriarty]

The bottom line is that Felder/Hammer should really put together a comprehensive Owners Manual and service protocol for these tools.
Yes. And lower the price if they are going leave all this tuning to the customer.

I've been trying to get the fence to slide smoothly back and forth and am a little POd and frustrated right now. Maybe when I calm down I'll run it through Brian's process.

[Erik Loza]

... And lower the price if they are going leave all this tuning to the customer...

That will probably never happen. At this level of machine, there is very little profit margin. $3K is a lot to you and me but is budget/value/entry-level in the grand picture of Felder, et al. It might be the biggest investment we ever make in a home shop but companies like this depend on volume rather than margin-per-unit to stay profitable. Also, the US is unique in that for Felder (and SCM) globally, the vast majority of these machines are sold through regional dealers, who usually have their own techs that handle setup and tuning. Here in the US, our territory is so vast that most customers would probably end up paying just as much to fly a tech out and adjust the machine as they did for the machine, itself.

I remember one of the Asian companies knocking off the FS30 Smart. Buyers told me the machines were lemons but that the documentation was excellent. I actually downloaded a copy of their pdf setup manual and would send it to clients. Several owners said it was a great help, LOL.

Erik

[Julie Moriarty]

That will probably never happen. At this level of machine, there is very little profit margin. $3K is a lot to you and me but is budget/value/entry-level in the grand picture of Felder, et al.
It's $5K now, with the Silent Power cutterblock. Throw in tax and shipping and you're pushing $6K. $3K would have given me less griping rights. ;)

[Erik Loza]

It's $5K now, with the Silent Power cutterblock. Throw in tax and shipping and you're pushing $6K. $3K would have given me less griping rights. ;)

That's crazy! What does an AD5-31 go for these days?

Erik

[Greg Parrish]

It's $5K now, with the Silent Power cutterblock. Throw in tax and shipping and you're pushing $6K. $3K would have given me less griping rights. ;)

I agree. Its a $6k+ machine normal price with shipping, tax, spiral head, mobile cart, and the digital wheel. And add another $300 with one short extension and bracket.

Maybe folks dont realize current pricing pricing when we’ve been complaining loudly lately. It’s a big outlay for a small home/hobby shop that really sucks when it doesn’t work well off the crate and takes a lot of effort and learning to try to tune it yourself. It’s the kind of money that could have bought two separates from Powermatic or other brands. It’s the kind of money that I’m expecting to be perfect out of the box. It’s a lot of coin for a compromised machine that shouldn’t be compromised in settings and readiness to go to work.

Honestly if these things need need a local tech to tune them before delivery they should tell you that when you talk to them about ordering. It seems like a nice machine but I had to do the walk away routine to keep from getting really mad. I’m distracting myself with other things until I can calmly come back to it as otherwise it’s causing me lots of stress. I really needed a working on delivery machine.

And honestly I’m kind of tired of everyone’s comments over the last week making me feel guilty for expecting more. The consumer should have rights to feel upset, even if I were a billion dollar entity. Having to troubleshoot and tune a new machine is down time for a business which costs lots of money and lost opportunity run time. While I’m not a business, i have very limited time for my hobby, and spending any of it having to deal with this after this large of a purchase is very hard to swallow. While waiting on delivery I was drooling over a Hammer K3 but I’ve certainly written off a sliding saw from Felder at this point. I’m sure I’ll get the jointer dialed in eventually but how long will it take and what opportunities are lost in the mean time.

[Julie Moriarty]

Its a $6k+ machine normal price with shipping, tax, spiral head, mobile cart, and the digital wheel. And add another $300 with one short extension and bracket.

Maybe folks dont realize current pricing pricing when we’ve been complaining loudly lately. It’s a big outlay for a small home/hobby shop that really sucks when it doesn’t work well off the crate and takes a lot of effort and learning to try to tune it yourself. It’s the kind of money that could have bought two separates from Powermatic or other brands. It’s the kind of money that I’m expecting to be perfect out of the box. It’s a lot of coin for a compromised machine that shouldn’t be compromised in settings and readiness to go to work.

Honestly if these things need need a local tech to tune them before delivery they should tell you that when you talk to them about ordering. It seems like a nice machine but I had to do the walk away routine to keep from getting really mad. I’m distracting myself with other things until I can calmly come back to it as otherwise it’s causing me lots of stress. I really needed a working on delivery machine.

And honestly I’m kind of tired of everyone’s comments over the last week making me feel guilty for expecting more. The consumer should have rights to feel upset, even if I were a billion dollar entity. Having to troubleshoot and tune a new machine is down time for a business which costs lots of money and lost opportunity run time. While I’m not a business, i have very limited time for my hobby, and spending any of it having to deal with this after this large of a purchase is very hard to swallow. While waiting on delivery I was drooling over a Hammer K3 but I’ve certainly written off a sliding saw from Felder at this point. I’m sure I’ll get the jointer dialed in eventually but how long will it take and what opportunities are lost in the mean time.

Well said, Greg!

And for anyone trying to make you feel guilty for complaining, just tell them you bought the rights to complain when a Festool priced machine arrived at your door with Asian machine quality.

[Brian Holcombe]

I think you’re reading into the comments, neither of you have anything to feel guilty about but as with any public grievances you may receive a difference of opinion in the replies.

I gripe about this stuff plenty, myself, but at some point if you want the performance you can put aside some of the complaints and spend some time tuning it then have pretty much what you want.

I feel I went through quite a bit of grief having to engineer and build a new motor mount for the FD-250 but I also weighted my options of selling the machine and starting over or just fixing it. I wasn’t thrilled about needing to do all that but it’s turned me into a bit more of a realist with these machines.
I recieved and ignored advice at the time to overlook the FD250 and search for a Kolle, Hofmann or Martin. Given the same choice a year later I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase a used one of that later group even at multiple of what I paid for the Felder. Taking time out of everyday work to reengineer a piece of machinery is expensive and disruptive.

All in all the benefits still outweigh the negatives in my opinion. It has also swayed me toward more serious equipment for future purchases.

[Greg Parrish]

I hear ya. I’m not trying to imply people are purposely trying to make me feel guilty, just that I’m tired of feeling guilty and some of the feedback makes me feel guilty about whining. I’ll have to suck it up eventually and deal with it. LOL.

Not a big deal for some to adjust these things and I get it but I wasn’t prepared for it.

[John Gornall]

I bought a new A3 31 a couple of years ago, picked it up at the Felder store, lifted it out of my truck, lowered into a mobile base, wheeled it into my shop, and cut wood. Joints fine, planes fine, no snipe. I never checked with dial indicator, straight edge, or feeler gages. Should I have? I like it.

[Chris Parks]

John, I literally did the same as you 4 years ago and it still gives me square dimensioned timber that fits.

[John Barfield]

John,
I had a similar experience with my A3 31. It was hard to resist my obsessive tendencies to get out the dial indicators, but I decided to use the machine for a while to see how it actually cut wood. The results were nearly perfect with no machine adjustments. I did find that the jointer required a lighter touch than my previous DJ 20. Also the minimal snipe when thicknessing can be eliminated by lifting the stock slightly as it exits the machine. Measure the wood or the results first, then look at machine adjustments.

[John Gornall]

Re Julies comment on getting the fence to slide smoothly - I'm old school about oil, grease, and wax- the fence on my A3 slides just fine -all surfaces waxed, all threads oiled. The fence slides well on the front 8 inches where I edge joint and I think the back 4 inches is just a parking place while face jointing. I have the bar on the end on which the fence slides set a little higher than the manual states. After working thru the movements and adjustments on this fence I'm quite happy with it.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I purchased this JP last week, prior to discovering this thread and seeing julie's frustration with her new planer.

Had I seen either of these threads, I probably wouldn't have bought the Hammer and would have gone with the Powermatic.

But lying awake at 5AM this morning, thinking about some of the comments made earlier in this thread, mostly about the adjustment and flatness of the tables, I figured neither of these were really an issue.

On the infeed table, being a few thou out across the width of the table or along the length really bears no relevance to the way the workpiece turns out. The infeed table is there to provide support, the jointer is flattening the work piece removing any cupping of working, so being a few thou out just prior to the cutter head, really doesn't affect anything as all that wood is just waste and about to be removed.

Likewise, the outfeed table isn't affecting the actual cut, it's just there to provide support, so my theory, only the 3'' to 4" past the cutter head needs to be aligned properly to the top of the cutter blades and even being a few thou out of flat, across the width, doesn't affect the actual workpiece as long as there is good support across the width in this area.

So although is seems we should have perfectly flat tables, I'm pretty comfortable in my assumptions that is is not really necessary.

So after thinking about this, I drifted back off to sleep around 5:50AM.

But I do appreciate the wok put in by some earlier posters trying to make this tool as perfect as possible.

Now I wait for my A3-31 to arrive sometime next week, my prior planer and jointer sold and left my garage yesterday, so I hope i will be satisfied with my new, most expensive to me, tool.

[Bart Estes]

I am in the process of tuning my A3 31. I have it set up with the spiral cutter head. I run a small wood shop and was in the middle of my busiest month so far.
Suddenly the jointer began to leave a snipe in the last inch of the board being jointed. I noted that the oufeed table had dropped below the level of the cutterhead. The drop did not occur gradeually. Previous jointing (4/4 walnut) was fine - one board later, snipe,
Tech support was good in this case; Brian guided me through adjusting the height of the outfeed table. (I can give details if anyone is interested). Finally got it with a deal of wrestling.
No snipe, but the tables were no longer remotely co-planar. The outboard end of the infeed table was higher than the inboard end. It was out of whack by eighths of an inch rather than thousandths. The machine was eating one end of the boards I was trying to join: the lead end kept getting thinner while the trailing edge escaped the blade.
Another call to Brian. Adjusted the temple bolts on the outfeed table to bring the outfeed table to a thou or two below the max height of the penultimate inboard and outboard carbide cutters. The 3 page instructions I have from Hammer then say to use the temple bolts on the infeed side to attain a co planar state.
No joy. Called tech support. Off to adjust the height of the hinges. I freed the inboard, adjusted the outboard hinge height adjusting mechanism (details available) achieved something resembling a coplanar state and tightened everything down.
The hold down lever on the infeed side would not engage. I had changed the height of the infeed table enough that the height of the (silver) metal tab that engages the hold down lever had to be adjusted. Success; I can joint wood again.
Next adventure is trying to adjust he feed rollers so the planer feeds properly. Most of the time I have to push/pull the stock through. If anyone has any experience with this problem, I welcome any advice.

Thank you for your attention.

If it would be helpful I do have:
A three page instruction sheet from the Felder mother ship about adjusting the jointer tables with the temple bolts
The Felder booklet of maybe a dozen exploded parts views (all parts' names are in German) of the sub-assemblies of the A3 31

If it would be helpful, I could post them if there is a mechanism for it on this site.


"There are no mistakes; only unexpected design opportunities."

[Tim Derr]

Hey Tyler!

Just gave you a call.
Feel free to reach back out when you have the time so we can help you out over here at Felder Group.
If you haven't been able to get your machine to where you like by the reply Brian made, we will be glad to help.

Anyone else on this thread as well that might need, help, we are here for you!

866-792-5288 ext 225

[Toni Spizzirri]

I am in the process of tuning my A3 31. I have it set up with the spiral cutter head. I run a small wood shop and was in the middle of my busiest month so far.
Suddenly the jointer began to leave a snipe in the last inch of the board being jointed. I noted that the oufeed table had dropped below the level of the cutterhead. The drop did not occur gradeually. Previous jointing (4/4 walnut) was fine - one board later, snipe,
Tech support was good in this case; Brian guided me through adjusting the height of the outfeed table. (I can give details if anyone is interested). Finally got it with a deal of wrestling.
No snipe, but the tables were no longer remotely co-planar. The outboard end of the infeed table was higher than the inboard end. It was out of whack by eighths of an inch rather than thousandths. The machine was eating one end of the boards I was trying to join: the lead end kept getting thinner while the trailing edge escaped the blade.
Another call to Brian. Adjusted the temple bolts on the outfeed table to bring the outfeed table to a thou or two below the max height of the penultimate inboard and outboard carbide cutters. The 3 page instructions I have from Hammer then say to use the temple bolts on the infeed side to attain a co planar state.
No joy. Called tech support. Off to adjust the height of the hinges. I freed the inboard, adjusted the outboard hinge height adjusting mechanism (details available) achieved something resembling a coplanar state and tightened everything down.
The hold down lever on the infeed side would not engage. I had changed the height of the infeed table enough that the height of the (silver) metal tab that engages the hold down lever had to be adjusted. Success; I can joint wood again.
Next adventure is trying to adjust he feed rollers so the planer feeds properly. Most of the time I have to push/pull the stock through. If anyone has any experience with this problem, I welcome any advice.

Thank you for your attention.

If it would be helpful I do have:
A three page instruction sheet from the Felder mother ship about adjusting the jointer tables with the temple bolts
The Felder booklet of maybe a dozen exploded parts views (all parts' names are in German) of the sub-assemblies of the A3 31

If it would be helpful, I could post them if there is a mechanism for it on this site.


"There are no mistakes; only unexpected design opportunities."

Hey Bart,

I am having the same issues with my new A331, do you think you could send over the instruction sheets on how to adjust the tables? Cheers!

[Rod Sheridan]

I
Next adventure is trying to adjust he feed rollers so the planer feeds properly. Most of the time I have to push/pull the stock through. If anyone has any experience with this problem, I welcome any advice.

Thank you for your attention.






"There are no mistakes; only unexpected design opportunities."


Hi Bart, sounds like the cast iron tables need lubricating. Use either Gleit from Felder or paste wax for hardwood floors (no silicone)......Regards, Rod

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Pulling this thread back up since there recently were questions by a few people on how to adjust the tables on a Hammer A3-31. Posts 21-25 by Brian Arbuckle have the best instructions I've ever seen.

Thought others might find them handy.

Cliff