Rough End Grain Inside of Bowls

[Ron Ford]

I got a lot of valuable feedback on my last post, so I'm hoping for more of the same here.

Still being relatively new to turning (about eight months now) I am 'getting there' but still having some vexing problems on a regular basis. One of the most frequent is how to get a smoother end grain inside of bowls. I've improved on the outside and can mostly handle them, but the really rough inside end grain is a killer. My current project is a kiln-dried piece of ambrosia maple and the interior end grain areas are really rough. I've tried a round nose scraper with some success but could still use some help.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to becoming a contributor and not just a requester of information.

[Scott Hackler]

Time to break out the 80 grit gouge! :) Sometimes sanding is the only answer. Sand in both directions (if possible) and occationally raise the grain with a damp cloth.

[Reed Gray]

Softer woods are always more difficult to cut clean than some of the harder woods. With a round nose scraper, if you have it flat on the tool rest, it works fairly well for sweeping across the bottom of the bowl and leveling some of the washboard effect you get till you really learn the finer points of using the gouge: keeping the handle angle steady and moving with your body. If you try to clean up the walls of the bowl with a scraper, this does not work well. You 'pull' the fibers with a scraping cut, you do not gently sliced them off which will give you a cleaner cut. If you use a scraping cut (scraper flat on the tool rest) any where near the rim of the bowl, it can set up vibrations and the bowl walls will vibrate/oscillate, some times to the point of causing a catch and blow up. Here is where the scraper on its side at a 45 or higher degree angle comes in handy. A very gentle pull cut and a fresh burr (CBN wheel burr, or burnished burr are best), and making sure you work on the lower 1/3 of the blade/cutting part. A ) nose shape is easier to control than a U shape. If you go to You Tube and type in robo hippy, I have a couple of clips up showing some of this.

robo hippy

[Allan Ferguson]

Some times the bowl moves out of round, end grain area moving out and sides moving in. This make things difficult to clean up period. And end grain can simply be tough cut smoothly or sand . Practice.

[Michael Stafford]

Assuming the bowl has not gone oval on you try using a smaller gouge like a 1/4" bowl gouge with a traditional grind rather than a fingernail grind. Sometimes if you cut with a smaller sharper tool moving very slowly you can remove the torn fibers. Sometimes you cannot....:confused: But I have found that a smaller gouge usually allows me to take a smaller bite and remove a lot of the torn grain.

[Harry Robinette]

Ron
I use Mike S. way of doing the cutting with a smaller gouge. Most of the time I put whatever finish I'm going to use on the piece on that area and while it's still wet take a very fine cut. It's like using shaving cream to get a close shave and if you don't then the whiskers get plucked out. Works for me.

[Dennis Ford]

In addition to the good advise you have already received; try using a gouge with a less acute cutting angle. Sometimes with dry wood a 60 - 65 degree grind will produce a better surface.

[Thomas Canfield]

My preference is to use a sharp bowl gouge and never a scraper except on end grain hollowing. A sharp edge cutting downhill taking a light cut seems to give the best cut. I recommend practicing using some 2x6 stock and work on sharpening and light cuts. You can add a glue block to 2x6 to get a deeper practice piece or even just use 2x4 to have a steeper side and smaller bottom radius. And then the 80 grit gouge with a soft pad in a drill helps to spot sand out the "spots".

[Ted Calver]

In addition to the good advise you have already received; try using a gouge with a less acute cutting angle. Sometimes with dry wood a 60 - 65 degree grind will produce a better surface.
I have a gouge ground to 65 just for transitions and bottoms. Straight in at center height, level and light cuts. Makes a nice shearing cut that leaves a smooth bottom. One of the good tricks I took away from a session with Trent Bosch at our local Woodcraft. Almost something someone has to show you though. A Hunter #4 also works for me, as does a negative rake scraper.

[Ron Ford]

Thanks for all of the great ideas folks. I'm sure they will get me in much better shape.

This site (and of course, all of you) has been a terrific resource to me as a new woodturner. I'm very grateful for the time all of you took to teach me a few new tricks.

[Chip Sutherland]

After completing 6 collection plates from 3 differing types of maple....my hard-earned opinion is that maple is just one of these stubborn woods when it comes to end grain. So I approach it knowing that I need to include an extra hour in my sanding plan to deal with end grain.

Firstly, I usually don't concern myself with end grain issues when I am roughing or profiling; I just hit it with shellac several times between cuts. This helps stiffen and 'glue' the fibers.

Secondly, when I am closing in my desired shape, I sharpen my gouges (usually 1-2 times) and really get patient with my cuts while trying not to burnish the wood by rubbing heel of my gouge excessive which just creates more problems. One of these days I will remember to soften those heels.

Thirdly, I'm with Scott Hackler, I just expect to do some sanding:
step 1 - hand sand (100-120-150) end grain...using appropriate pressure not heavy handed. I sometimes use steel wool as a backer to profile the sand paper to the piece.
step 2 - power sand starting at 150-240 alternating forward/reverse directions & raising the grain with alcohol (less likely to stain the wood than water).
Step 3 - review and repeat steps 1-2 until satisfied or exasperated.
Step 4 - finish sand 320-??
Step 5 - having failed steps 1-4, sharpen the gouges and re-do the cut(s).
Alternate Step 5 - sharpen my scraper and try that

For me, plain maple just isn't fun enough to turn to do much of it. Consequently, most of my plain maple has ended up tapped for mounting custom chucks (i.e vacuum chucks). Figured maple is definitely worth the effort above.