Flamed Box elder: Advice

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Need a little advice from those who've turned flamed box elder. I was given a beautiful chunk, nice figure and simply incredible color. I don't see a lot of box elder available up here in the Northwest, and I've never seen this intense color. I've just roughed it out into a blank and cored it so far, and been blown away with what I'm seeing.

My question: will it stay (the color)? What's the best finish to give me an opportunity to keep as much of the color as possible?
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[David Walser]

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the color won't last. The red will turn brown over time. Exposure to light accelerates the color change. So, too, does changes in PH. (Mark Mandell told me he consulted a chemist and learned that the red color in box elder is a form of phenol red -- the chemical used to test PH in swimming pools. Phenol red is very volatile.) A finish with UV blockers in it might help to delay the change from red to brown, but nothing will prevent it forever.

You can try to preserve the wood's just turned appearance by applying red dye via an air brush. That's a lot of work and I don't have the talent for it. Once brown, the wood will still be pretty. So, enjoy it while it lasts and don't worry too much about fighting nature.

[Bob Bergstrom]

The color will fade to a subtle shades of light brown. You can air brush red dye into it but eventually it will change just like many other woods. I would use water white lacquer. Oils or poly will yellow it. I have heard of using Armorall or some other type of UV control. Beautiful piece of wood I've never seen that much bright red in a piece of box elder.

[charlie knighton]

i did 2 pieces several years ago (3 or more) one i keep out on display, the other i keep in paper bag and only display for an hour or two when certain guests are present that might appreciate the turning. the one i keep out the red has faded to a light brown, the one in bag is still fresh red...........

[Fred Belknap]

Our club had a demo and a lady turned a bowl out of BE flame. She used 2 part bleach on the wood, it enhanced the color and according to her helped keeping it from loosing it's color.

[Mark Trenier]

I have had luck keeping the color for a few years using wipe on poly and keeping the bowl out of sunlight. I have several bowls three years old where the color is still red.

[Harry Pye]

I'll second the advice to bleach the wood with two part bleach. It makes the light colored wood an almost ivory color and seems to make the red brighter. I don't think it does, but it does improve the contrast. In addition, it seems to even out the complextion of the wood surface.

[Prashun Patel]

I turned a bunch of this stuff 2 years ago. IMHO, the best looking finish was pale shellac. I would not be afraid of ambering or yellowing. I used waterlox, poly, spar varnish on many, and they still looked great (with the exception on gloss poly, which I find to look like plastic when built up).

I have not seen a lick of fading on any of the pieces yet, but they do not bathe in direct sunlight.

You might even try Watco Teak Oil, which is supposed to contain UV inhibitors.

You're lucky to have this. Looks great. Show the results, pls.

Also, personally, I would shy away from the bleach. you will get stunning contrast without it. I would also go for the clearest finish possible.

[Bryan Richardson]

I have turned quite a bit of red box elder. This bowl I finished with Thompson's Deck seal. It will turn brown eventually, but still looks nice.
The red is the start of wood deterioration. This piece has splines to hold it together while turned. On the right is another box elder bowl with a little red.
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[Curt Fuller]

I've often thought that the red that shows up in Box Elder is something, some organism or some reaction to something in the live wood, that is either still alive or very recently dead at the point when the color is so brilliant. Of course everything we do to wood when we turn and finish it puts an end to that. So as it dies and gets exposed to air so dies the brilliant color. I also think it's interesting that for all the pickup loads of Box Elder I've gone through as turning wood and fire wood I've never seen more than just a faint hint of red in the wood. I live in a high, dry desert climate and most of the brilliant colored wood I've seen has come from somewhere with a substantially wetter climate.

[Chip Sutherland]

I used a UV marine varnish on my piece and kept it out of sunlight. The red lasted about 4yrs...it is pinkish and brown now. I took a class with a very famous woodturner and this question was specifically asked. Without a word, he picked up a piece and an airbrush and expertly painted the flame color red.."that's how....We embellish our work all the time so what's the difference". Wish I could fix the piece I have but I am not skilled enough to airbrush the color back on.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Thanks everyone. I was pretty certain the color would fade over time, just trying to buy as much time as possible. Since I've got two cores, I may try a couple of options on the smaller two and seal this blank up for now. I don't know when this timber was felled, it was a gift to me last June. Came from the northern part of California, near the Oregon border. I held onto it for quite a while, roughed and cored it, sealed with anchor seal about four months ago, and put it with all the other blanks to sit until I decided what to do with it. I'll have a go with the bleach with one of the smaller cores - the sapwood could use a little brightening from what I saw with the smallest core so far.

Thanks for all your help.