Cleaning lots of Rowmark.

[Joe Hillmann]

I did my first large order of rowmark tags yesterday. (About 400 1"x3" tags) The problem or issue I ran into is quite a few of them needed to be scrubbed to remove the smoke. Normally I just scrub all the rowmark I work with with a Mr. clean magic eraser then wipe them dry but I have never done this many at one time before. It took several hours to clean and dry all the tags and I expect this same job to come up at least 4 more times in the near future. Has anyone come up with an easier way to wash and dry that many tags? I am charging enough that it doesn't really matter that I need to spend the extra time but I just don't enjoy doing it.

On a side note I found that even though the rowmark laid nice and flat when I was cutting it into tags the heat would cause it to expand and bubble causing the beam to be out of focus and some of the edges not to be acceptable. The next batch that I did I put on my new vacuum table and added a relief cut down the center before I started cutting the strips for the tags and everything stayed nice and flat.

[Martin Boekers]

What colors are you useing?

I find on some that (while in the engraver) that I squeegee down some masking pretty good on it
and that takes much of it away.

This really helps with the colors that bleed into the engraved white are from the plastic dust.

[Scott Shepherd]

Most all of those type things, we engrave, pull the material out, apply transfer tape to the face, put back in and vector cut. The end result is something ready for the customer for the most part. If you leave the tape on, it's a "protective" layer that they can peel off when installing, or if they want it off, we can peel them. We talk about the finished, masked plates as a "premium" level of service :) You'd be surprised how many people like that idea.

Either way, it means you don't have to really clean anything on the face. You can clean the entire face prior to putting the tape on, but for the most part, the transfer tape pulls off the residue when it's removed.

[Gary Hair]

For that many pieces I would raster and clean them then apply transfer tape and vector. This should eliminate any cleanup after vectoring and it also helps to protect the face of the tag for packaging.

Gary

edit: I should have read Scott's post, it's exactly what I wrote...

[Scott Shepherd]

edit: I should have read Scott's post, it's exactly what I wrote...

Don't worry, no one listens to me anyway :)

[Joe Hillmann]

It looks like I was working backwards. I was vector cutting them, then removing the masking, then rastor engraving them then washing and drying. I was handling every piece three or four times. With your method it sounds like the only time you handle individual tags is to take them out of the laser to pack them up.

Thanks for the ideas, they should save me hours of work and allow me to deliver a better product since the masking should prevent any scratches.

[Joe Hillmann]

Now another question, any suggestions for transfer tape to use? I've never worked with it before so I don't have a clue what I should be looking for in all of the choices that are available.

[Rodne Gold]

We clean it after laser engraving and cutting with benzene , just be careful , its highly flammable and is a carcinogenic with prolonged use , we use gloves and use it in a very well ventilated place .
You need to leave wider gaps between items to stop heat warpage when cutting, at least 1/8" or a bit bigger. alternatively you can share cuts to minimise wasteage . IE make L cuts and then just complete the edges
________
LLLLLLLLL|
LLLLLLLLL|
LLLLLLLLL|

[Tony Lenkic]

Most of my tags I do pre-cutting them on rotary engraver with bevel cutter then place in laser to raster.
If straight edge cut is required than I do as Scott and Gary, first engrave than apply low to medium tack application tape to vector cut. I also leave app. tape for customer to remove during installation.

[Scott Shepherd]

Now another question, any suggestions for transfer tape to use? I've never worked with it before so I don't have a clue what I should be looking for in all of the choices that are available.

It's called "Transfer" or "Application" tape. R-Tape is one company that makes it. It's available at any sign supply company. Search for R-Tape and you'll find it. It comes in various types, you want the paper type, and you'd probably want medium tack. They make low, medium, and high tack. Medium works fine. Get some squeegees too. We have 14" wide rolls, with a large 18" "squeegee" and we just put the material on the table, push the tape over it with the squeegee and then trim it. Takes about 1-2 minutes to do the entire process.

Signwarehouse and Fellers are a couple of places to look for the tape. Not knowing your location, I can't be more specific for one in your area.

[Joe Hillmann]

How long can the transfer tape be left on before it becomes difficult to remove? I know with masking tape if you leave it on more than a few days it becomes stuck. Is there a similar risk with transfer tape?

[Tim Bateson]

To prevent warping and smoke on the back, cut only 75-90% through. They snap/fall apart and the back is clean.

[Mike Null]

My business is made up of cutting such tags and name tags. I engrave first then cut. When necessary (any white combination) I use the Mr. Clean eraser. Making these is like minting money so a little cleaning time is just part of the job.

BUT---Rowmark just introduced a new material at the ARA show called Ultra Grav--which is supposed to minimize this problem. You can get it at Johnson Plastics and JDS Industries. http://www.rowmark.com/

Also http://www.ultra-grave.com/

[Scott Shepherd]

How long can the transfer tape be left on before it becomes difficult to remove? I know with masking tape if you leave it on more than a few days it becomes stuck. Is there a similar risk with transfer tape?

Not an issue. It's a light tack tape. You're more at risk of it falling off than it never coming off. It's sticky like a post-it note, not like masking tape.

[Tim Bateson]

I use the Light/Medium tack, but also a lot of blue painter's tape. Its cheap & has a lot of different uses.

[Joe Pelonio]

Most all of those type things, we engrave, pull the material out, apply transfer tape to the face, put back in and vector cut. The end result is something ready for the customer for the most part. If you leave the tape on, it's a "protective" layer that they can peel off when installing, or if they want it off, we can peel them. We talk about the finished, masked plates as a "premium" level of service :) You'd be surprised how many people like that idea.

Either way, it means you don't have to really clean anything on the face. You can clean the entire face prior to putting the tape on, but for the most part, the transfer tape pulls off the residue when it's removed.
Exactly the way I do it too. The worst is white letters on red.

[Bob Keyes]

Here's how I make mine, and I do a lot of them. Remove plastic from Romark. Cover with paper transfer tape. Engrave then cut. Remove pieces.

I have a tumbler made to tumble rocks. It has 2 rubber drums that rotate on a stand. (Cheap at Harbor Freight.) I load about 50 tags in each drum. Fill about 1/2 full of hot water, a good shot of Dawn and Krud Kutter. Tumble about 2 hours sometimes longer if I forget. Open containers, rinse off paper, dry and package. Little, if any weeding or cleaning done.

Hope this helps you.

[Joe Hillmann]

Bob, Does the tumbler remove the stickiness from the cut edges of the rowmark? If so I can see how that would work great for name tags or any tags that get handled.

[Joe Hillmann]

Is anyone willing to post what they charge for small rowmark tags? In the 3 to 5 square inch range? I normally charge $1.15 per square inch for small tags but on this job I am charging $1.10 since all the tags have square rather than rounded corners.

When originally bid the job I thought I would come out pretty good but now that it is all said and done all the cleaning, sorting, proof checking, trying to contact the customer to figure out a mistake, and billing I didn't really come out nearly as well as I had expected.

[Randy Digby]

We do a lot of 1" x 3" plastic. We apply a light coat of dish washing detergent prior to engraving. A quick rinse off takes care of all but the yellow and white which take about three swipes of a Magic Eraser. For drying, I pull off about six to eight full sheets of paper towels still attached and lay out on a table. I place the tags on half of the area ( three to four sheets) and then hinge over the other half of the paper towels to cover the tags and pat down. If you are careful, you can get weeks out of the same length of paper towel.

[Patrick Cooley]

All,
I have a little different method. I produce thousands of tags a year for a manufacturing company. We cut them first. We leave the plastic on that Rowmark covers the plastic with. We then clean the edges with Naptha. We then peel and engrave. We feel this has been the most cost effective for us. I'm also not incurring extra time and cost for remasking. I'm using White/Black LaserMax material for most of my tags. I took two of the sheets that we cut from, and attached them to a piece of plywood. So while one tray is being engraved, I can load the second tray up for engraving.
I would love to find a material for exterior use that we didn't have to clean the edges.

[Tony Lenkic]

Patrick, how do edges look after a week if you do not clean them?
I know that right after removing them after cutting they are bit sticky bat after few days that is not a problem.

[Patrick Cooley]

Tony,
I agree they slightly better, but still have a good amount of black coming off them. I often cut them during the week, and then have one of my workers that comes in on the weekend clean and peel them. We don't notice a lot of difference when cleaning. I've talked with Rowmark at length in the past about this, and this was our best solution we found :-(
I'm interested in the new material rowmark has called ultra-grave someone mentioned earlier in the post.

[Tim Bateson]

I must be doing something wrong, because I seldom have sticky edges and most times a quick wipe of a cloth is all that is required for cleaning. Yes some like white & red have additional cleaning needs - a quick rinse and paper towel dry. I don't do the mass production that some have described but I do 50-100 Name Plates a week.

[Patrick Cooley]

Tim, wow, I'm impressed. I really really need your secret :-)
What settings are you using? I have a Epilog 75 watt, so I know they would be different, but it would be interesting to try it out.
Thanks
Pat.

[Patrick Licata]

Tim, you are NOT doing something wrong! If you don't have sticky edges, you are definitely doing something right. I would patented it and tell us how you do it! Or you can just tell us. I always seem to have sticky edges wether I cut all the way through or just part way and "snap" them out.

[Mike Null]

Mine are a bit sticky as well but I figured it was the IPI plastic I use.

[Gary Gardner]

What are you guys using to clean the tags? If I engrave on red or burgundy with white lettering, all I get is offwhite or pink lettering. I have used every cleaner I can fine but the staining won't come out. I even tried using the mister clean pad and soapy water on the stains but they won't come out.

Thanks
Gary

[Tim Bateson]

What are you guys using to clean the tags? If I engrave on red or burgundy with white lettering, all I get is offwhite or pink lettering. I have used every cleaner I can fine but the staining won't come out. I even tried using the mister clean pad and soapy water on the stains but they won't come out...y

For the few colors that have this issue, laser through a masking/transfer tape/light-medium stick. One pass to do the lasering, then a fast 2nd pass to clear out the lettering - if needed. Peal & weed the tape & you're done.

[Ron Fairbanks]

I'm with Tim, I've not had any problems with Rowmark (LaserMark anyway) material. I found that if I remove the protective film and do a quick clean with orange cleaner to remove the tacky finish prior to engraving or cutting and then run the job with the air pump on, all I get is some powdery material that blows right off. Just finished about 100 small to medium placards yesterday using the red / white material. A few pieces had some residue on the back side but since they all get 3m 468 tape on the back it doesn't matter.

[Rodne Gold]

I also don't get sticky edges or substantial staining or incomplete engraving on Rowmark or my own imported Chinese material , we use a LOT of air assist when doing them and never use co axial assist , my air assist is a directed separate nozzle.
I run thru about 6-8 full sheets (4'x2') a day , in various colours (but mainly gold and silver) and lots of sizes , tons of small stuff for trophy labels up to big a4+. We also only get the "powdery" residue. I have never had to do multiple passes or use transfer tape.

[David Rust]

I don't cut Rowmark very often, since there appears to be two observations on the condition after cutting, is power or frequency a factor? Cut with at different power levels and freq levels and note if it is a "sticky-tough-to-clean" residue or does it have a "powdery" residue...

I'd love to know in case I get a Rowmark job.

[Tim Bateson]

Here are my settings for most Rowmark. IPI sticky back and Red or Blue Rowmark are different.
Raster: 300/75/38
Vector: 600/38/90/1275 DPI/Speed/Power/Freq + air assist
I also use a Hold Down Mat under the Rowmark.

[Rodne Gold]

Engraving has the powdery residue , cutting sometimes leaves a small "stain" either side of the cut (more evident on the metallic types) which seems to wipe clean with benzene. Stain is melt from the abs/acrylic base the material is made of , the stronger the air assist and the smaller the nozzle and the better directed it is , the less stain , effectively the assist air ejects the melt thru the bottom of the cut. I dunno what pressure our air assist is , but its a "very angry hiss" (IE a LOT!!!)
When we used coaxial air - IE air assist coming out the nozzle the beam exits out of , the staining was terrible , it seems the coaxial air just spreads everything around rather than ejects the melt...

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

Mike,
I had a major problem of dye staining on red/white, blue/white and black/white rowmark material. After endless cleaning attempts, I discovered an easier way.
Laser at high DPI (600 and over) at a considerably lower power (18 percent on a 50 Watt laser and 100 percent speed) with no air assist. Repeat the process, apply transfer tape and peel off.
The lack of air prevents the dye from flying all over the place.
The lower power prevents warping in the absence of air.
the second pass does the final cleanup.
The transfer tape lifts all the dye debris right off without smudging.
The trick is the absence of air and lower power.

Can I ask what is a fair price for a name tag, 1.5 x 3", with a magnet, no setup.
I might be charging a little on the lower side.
thanks

[Tim Bateson]

...Can I ask what is a fair price for a name tag, 1.5 x 3", with a magnet, no setup. I might be charging a little on the lower side...

I currently charge $7.25, however I bought a boat load of magnets before the prices went through the roof. I'll be raising those prices in a couple months to around $10.

[Larry Allred]

I just did some sample burns on the new Rowmark Ultra red on white. Lower power, clean etching without a second pass or cleanup. I was thrilled with the difference. Looks like an end to some serious frustrations and time wasting.

[Wes Mitchell]

Larry, what settings did you use? I've been doing some testing myself with little luck in getting it done in one pass.