Grizzly or Hammer

[Charlie Jones]

I am expecting to buy a combo Jointer/Planer soon. I have researched the subject to death and have it down between two machines. The Grizzly G0634XP and the Hammer A-331. I know the Hammer is probably a little better quality. Most of the reviews I have read on the forum have been good. The question is how good is the Grizzly as it costs close to a grand less, maybe more if I get the Silent Power helical head on the Hammer.

Have any of you had the Grizzly in service for more than a year and can you tell me how it has held up. Any information would be appreciated.

[Dominic Carpenter]

Hi Charlie,
I went through this same question. I currently own a Hammer K3 slider. I have been extraordinarily happy with the machine. Budget is the only reason one would hesitate to buy the Hammer. IMHO the Hammer is superior. The table design alone is superior. The other factor that was significant to me was the Grizzley pulls 25A on their 5 HP motor. That is a whole lot more power than required of the Hammer. In addition the number of indexed cutters is greater on Hammer's silent power cutter head. I have two other Grzzley machines and love them, but for this purchase I'm choosing the Hammer based on the mentioned considerations and my desire to have this investment last with minimal adjustment over the long haul.

[Jim Foster]

I wish Grizzly made a wider unit. The 12" jointer part is fine, 12" for the planer seems a little small. I'm hoping to trade up from seeparate machines to a combo for space savings, and the Hammer 16" seems like the only game in town.

[Charlie Jones]

I know the Grizzly pulls more power but I would think a 5 hp motor is be an advantage.

[Cary Falk]

I wish Grizzly made a wider unit. The 12" jointer part is fine, 12" for the planer seems a little small. I'm hoping to trade up from seeparate machines to a combo for space savings, and the Hammer 16" seems like the only game in town.
Here you go. On clearance also.
:Dhttp://www.grizzly.com/outlet/16-Jointer-Planer/G0660X

[Richard Coers]

Do you have any ideas why a company could sell something for a grand less? Think the quality is identical? Think they use the same thickness steel for the base? Same quality bearings? Same tolerances? Want to replace a couple parts that didn't work right, but the company has a great customer service group so it wasn't too bad of an experience? I think you know the answer, but you just needed to ask because it is a grand less. How many years are you going to use it, 20 or 30 hopefully. Worth $40 or $50 a year for more quality?

[Charlie Jones]

I am considering these very things. I also know that manufacturing costs in Europe are a lot more than in Taiwan. I have some cheaper machines made in Taiwan that I have used for nearly 20 years and they still give good service. I wish I could see both of these machines

[David Kumm]

With a jointer planer it is all about the way the tables are attached and how well they return exactly to their proper positions when raised and lowered a billion times. Find out as much as you can about how well the tables work as any inconsistency will drive you crazy. Both companies should be able to explain their systems and why they work well. It does take some precision to get it right. Dave

[Mark Henshaw]

I have the Grizzley J/P for 18 months now. The unit works very well. I am particularly fond of the helix carbide head. Cuts very cleanly (even figured wood)with much less noise then the lunchbox plainer I had previously. The small compalints I have are common to all of the J/P combos. The time to change over between functions takes 2 or 3 minutes and is a pain when you get your plaining done, switch back to jointer and then find one board you forgot to plane! The jointer is difficult to initially align the tables as these models do not have the gibs system that a stand alone jointer has. The machine is a beast and hogs through all of the wood I have thrown at it. I have had no issues at all with the table or fence not going back into perfect alignment after switching modes (I would estimate 100 mode changes, maybe more). If you have the money and the space, get individual units. If not, I am so far very happy with the Grizzly. I am very conscience of the quality of the units I buy as I lead a quality department for a multinational corporation. It is difficult to "turn this metality off" when at home.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I don't really side with either, i'm glad we can make a choice.

I know the Hammer is made in Austria, has to ship to delaware, and then shipped again to client. They arn't exactly stock piled like Grizzly units.

Grizzly should be made in Taiwan in bulk production and stocked in warehouses in the states. I'd have to guess that Grizzly sells a lot more volume and the production rates are probably a lot less than Hammer. They have pretty good freight rates as well.

One observation i've seen is that Grizzly seems to clone some machines and sell them for less. In that respect I don't really want to support a company that doesn't pay engineers to come up with their own original ideas. Yet I have to hand it to them for making certain tools available for those that do not have the biggest budget so it's not like I wish they didn't do that...

A quick search on craigslist led me to a grizzly 3HP cabinet saw for $300, yet a comparable used delta sells for $1,000.

Price point is one reason why I owned a grizzly.

If I have the money I'll buy the Hammer/felder product and appreciate the well thought out engineering details and craftsmanship.

What's nice about grizzly is you can upgrade to their flagship model and get more cast iron for your money. For some tools, this might be the better route.

[Rod Sheridan]

I went with Hammer for a few reasons

- good machine

- made in Europe so good wages/benefits/environmental regulations

- Felder own the intellectual property so they will be able to supply parts in the future

- excellent field service if you have problems with the machine

- superior cutterhead, either the cartridge knife or the spiral carbide

regards, Rod.

[mreza Salav]

I have neither but one thing I have noticed is that European machines keep their value much better. I am guessing that if you ever want to resell your machine the chances are you'd still have a significant difference between what you can get back for those two machines. Just some food for thought...

[Craig Behnke]

I'm relatively new to WWing, so i'm not an expert by any means, but I think my experience is applicable for hobby ww'ers. My 2 cents, for what its worth.

I have a mix of a few super high quality tools and a lot of good, middle of the road tools. I've found that when I spend the extra money to buy a superior quality product, it makes the task SO MUCH MORE...pick your superlative (enjoyable, efficient, clean, accurate, etc, etc, etc.) I can't think of the last time that I spent the extra money for a superior quality product and I regretted it. I got into woodworking through watchmaking, so I am used to the super high cost and high quality of Swiss and German tools compared to lower cost, decent quality American and Asian tools. The quality issue is not even a close comparison...high end European tools are VASTLY superior to Asian tools.

Granted, for some applications, I can easily get by with a US/Asian made tool. But for some processes, I really really really want super high quality, reliability, etc. Also depends on what we do with the tools. If I was making a ton of cutting boards, i'd buy mid range products. But I focus on wooden geared clocks and I want a pretty high degree of precision for some things.

I'm saving for a european jointer planer combo. it's gonna take me a while, but i'd rather get by with my current tools for another year or two and then enjoy 25+ years of a superior machine rather than settle for a good, but less than superior, tool right now +25 years.

I've never regretted paying for quality, but I have often regretted buying mid-range stuff and later wishing I had waited to buy superior.

[Alan Lightstone]

I'm relatively new to WWing, so i'm not an expert by any means, but I think my experience is applicable for hobby ww'ers. My 2 cents, for what its worth.

I have a mix of a few super high quality tools and a lot of good, middle of the road tools. I've found that when I spend the extra money to buy a superior quality product, it makes the task SO MUCH MORE...pick your superlative (enjoyable, efficient, clean, accurate, etc, etc, etc.) I can't think of the last time that I spent the extra money for a superior quality product and I regretted it. I got into woodworking through watchmaking, so I am used to the super high cost and high quality of Swiss and German tools compared to lower cost, decent quality American and Asian tools. The quality issue is not even a close comparison...high end European tools are VASTLY superior to Asian tools.

Granted, for some applications, I can easily get by with a US/Asian made tool. But for some processes, I really really really want super high quality, reliability, etc. Also depends on what we do with the tools. If I was making a ton of cutting boards, i'd buy mid range products. But I focus on wooden geared clocks and I want a pretty high degree of precision for some things.

I'm saving for a european jointer planer combo. it's gonna take me a while, but i'd rather get by with my current tools for another year or two and then enjoy 25+ years of a superior machine rather than settle for a good, but less than superior, tool right now +25 years.

I've never regretted paying for quality, but I have often regretted buying mid-range stuff and later wishing I had waited to buy superior.

Ditto. I've learned the hard way to be a cry once kind of guy. Too many mediocre purchased had to later be replaced by high quality items. I've never regretted buying the better stuff.

Not my money, but buy the Hammer.

[Cary Falk]

Country of origin is Germany not Taiwan.

[Jim Foster]

Regarding Premium priced equipment: Manufacturing processes, quality control, etc... have improved so much in the last 20 years, and Grizzly has made a very public effort to add machines that compete against the European Bandsaws, J/Ps, Sliding Tablesaws. In looking at the catalogs and reviews online, it's hard to know if these higher end machines will give the home hobbyist that enjoyable feeling every time they use it. It would be nice if there was a showroom in New England where we could go run a few boards through.

[Brian Tax]

Sorry to hijack, but love the wood clock, Craig we need more details about that, impressive.

[Dominic Carpenter]

Cary,
Grizzly promotes their J/P machines as designed and engineered in Germany, however, they have been copied and manufactured in Taiwan. That said, Grizzly makes good products, but for a combo J/P I personally believe the Euro manufactured machines will be a better investment over time. I agree with previous posts, I have never been sorry I spent a few extra dollars on a quality machine, especially when accuracy and durability are the primary demands.

[Dominic Carpenter]

Charlie,
One point that has not been mentioned is how the Grizzly and Hammer machines differ in the way their infeed table adjusts. The Hammer uses a single lever to adjust the infeed table. To adjust the infeed table on the Grizzly, a wrench or socket is required to raise or lower the table. If you are one who frequently adjusts the table this may be something to consider.

[mreza Salav]

Cary,
Grizzly promotes their J/P machines as designed and engineered in Germany, however, they have been copied and manufactured in Taiwan. That said, Grizzly makes good products, but for a combo J/P I personally believe the Euro manufactured machines will be a better investment over time. I agree with previous posts, I have never been sorry I spent a few extra dollars on a quality machine, especially when accuracy and durability are the primary demands.

In the specification sheet of the 16" model Cary linked to it says "Country of origin: Germany"; I admit it's hard to understand whether it means "Made in Germany" or "designed in Germany", I suppose it is the former, i.e. "Made in Germany". In that case I would be interested in knowing more which manufacturer it is.

[Dominic Carpenter]

I apologize. I was talking about the 12 inch j/p. I'm not familiar with the specs on the 16 inch j/p. You may be correct. I know Grizzly has a 12 inch sliding TS made in Germany, so it's possible.

[David Kumm]

The JP Grizzly has discontinued was a Scheppach Plana 7. Their new catalog only lists a Taiwan model but I didn't look at their website. Dave

[Richard Coers]

Regarding Premium priced equipment: Manufacturing processes, quality control, etc... have improved so much in the last 20 years, and Grizzly has made a very public effort to add machines that compete against the European Bandsaws, J/Ps, Sliding Tablesaws. In looking at the catalogs and reviews online, it's hard to know if these higher end machines will give the home hobbyist that enjoyable feeling every time they use it. It would be nice if there was a showroom in New England where we could go run a few boards through.

Making a very public effort to add machines to compete, and doing it are two different things. The band saw I ordered had wheels that were not even machined all the way around. The machined surface ran out into rough cast surfaces. There is no way that is a world class machine in respect to manufacturing processes, quality control, etc... None of my European origin machines have had any issues like that. Hence my suggestion to go with European.

[Ryan Mooney]

There are a couple niceties that the Hammer has (these all of course add $$s)

The "digital" handwheel. I really really really love this thing especially on a combo machine. I can get the planer back to within a few thou very quickly and easily. Way worth the $100.
Jointer and planer (especially outfeed) extension tables. The 635 has longer tables to start with though so.
Perceived quality. I'm not sure how much this is in my head :rolleyes: but there it is. I've been really happy with my A3-31, but haven't used the comparable grizz so its definitely not fair to compare with only one data point.

I got a pretty nice deal on a combo pack though so that was what really tipped me over.

[Charlie Jones]

I really appreciate all the valuable insight from all of you. This is a big decision for me. Right now I have a lunchbox planer and a 6" jointer so it is a big step. I was leaning hard toward the Hammer until I saw the price with the helical head is close to 4 thousand. I know the quality is better but that is a lot of moo la...

I did a little research Cary and found that the early Grizzlies were made in Germany but the spec sheet noe says Taiwan.

[Peter Kelly]

I wish Grizzly made a wider unit. The 12" jointer part is fine, 12" for the planer seems a little small. I'm hoping to trade up from seeparate machines to a combo for space savings, and the Hammer 16" seems like the only game in town.How's that?

Mini Max has 4 different models of 16" combination machines: http://minimax-usa.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=4&Itemid=35

Rojek also makes a 16" model: http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/msp415.php

As does Griggio: http://www.griggio.it/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1&category_id=2&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

And Laguna: http://www.lagunatools.com/combo

[Jim Foster]

If I recall, the prices on the MiniMax machines start at over $6K. The hammer comes in lower, the Grizzly, even lower. The Rojek looks interesting, no published prices as far as I can tell. I'm surprised I missed the fact Grizzly has a 16" unit. I've been looking at their bandsaws quite a bit.


How's that?

Mini Max has 4 different models of 16" combination machines: http://minimax-usa.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=4&Itemid=35

Rojek also makes a 16" model: http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/msp415.php

As does Griggio: http://www.griggio.it/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1&category_id=2&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

And Laguna: http://www.lagunatools.com/combo

[David Kumm]

Charlie, did you see the used 331 on woodweb ? Dave

[mreza Salav]

The JP Grizzly has discontinued was a Scheppach Plana 7. Their new catalog only lists a Taiwan model but I didn't look at their website. Dave

Thanks Dave. I looked at the pics more carefully and it looked a bit light for a 16" model. Then I looked at the spec's and indeed it has shorter tables than my 14" minimax J/P and is about 150-200lb lighter as well.

[David Kumm]

Thanks Dave. I looked at the pics more carefully and it looked a bit light for a 16" model. Then I looked at the spec's and indeed it has shorter tables than my 14" minimax J/P and is about 150-200lb lighter as well.

The MM 14" is a sweet machine and a good used buy. Dave

[Charlie Jones]

Thanks David I will take a look.

[Craig Behnke]

Sorry to hijack, but love the wood clock, Craig we need more details about that, impressive.

I'll be building another one very soon and I'll document it with a ton of pictures and post them for all to see. meantime, if you want to see plans to build ones like this, here is one of the best places to start:

http://www.lisaboyer.com/Claytonsite/Claytonsite1.htm