Miter plane question (attention Rob Lee....lol)

[Tim Null]

I have been lusting over the LN miter plane for a while now. I am getting close to actually ordering one, when I saw the post on the LV that is in the works. Does anyone have any info on the LV version that is supposed to be out later this year?

Rob, if you are reading this, can you give me/us any info without having to kill us? Generalities are ok. I am looking to see if it is worth the wait or if I should just get the LN.

Thoughts? Comments?

Always appreciated.

[Mike Henderson]

By miter plane, do you mean the copy of the Stanley #9? Used with a shooting board?

Mike

[Gary Herrmann]

Hmm. Or maybe the 51/52?

[Tim Null]

The 51/52 copy. Tried it at WWA in Pasadena and it is great. Just heard about the LV miter plane in a previous thread and wanted to know some more info before making the 500.00 plunge.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm getting nearly the same results from a LA jack as with my #9.

The blade and the shooting board make the most difference in performance.
I think you could emulate the 51/52 by putting in a secondary fence to "capture" the plane body.

In my opinion, this won't make a lick of difference if the iron is dull.

[Mark Baldwin III]

OOOOO, LV has a mitre plane in the works? I've been hoping that they would do it eventually. I figured that they wouldn't make one because of the low angle planes that people use for that purpose already. I've got a mitre plane kit that I need to finish (for like a year now, I'll admit I'm lazy), but I'd love to have a brandy-new one from LV. My bench planes aren't my favorite for shooting end grain, and block planes lack mass (though they don't do a horrible job). Would be nice to have a dedicated plane in my shop.

[Lloyd Robins]

If you have read Derek's (Mr. Cohen's) review ( http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasJackRabbetPlane.html ) of the LV Jack Rabbet plane, you could put it on a wooden base and use it for shooting unless you needed to to make a rebate. You could make the rebate or raise a panel and then return it to the base for shooting. It would be a couple of hundred dollars less than the LN. Just a thought.

[Ryan Baker]

A LV miter plane? How did I miss that post? Are we talking about a #9 or a #51 here? I really can't see LV doing a 51. Actually, I doubt LV would do a #9 either. The numbers just aren't there. But I would be very interested to see what they've got in the works. I thought the large plow was next in line.

[Derek Cohen]

Rob has mentioned on Woodnet that there is a shooting plane in the works, so I am not letting the cat out of the bag.

I did have a play with a model in Ottawa recently, but this was just a model and changes may still occur before production. Obviously I cannot say more and my words really are intended to tease everyone :) But seriously, what I saw was just fantastic, indeed has the potential to be better than my LN #51 (which remains a superb plane).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Matthews]

I thought you had your fill of "sledding", last month?

How was the return flight?

[Derek Cohen]

The return flight, Jim?

Ha! We returned to Perth from the snow of Ottawa via the icy cold of the Grand Canyon to a record heat wave in Sydney ... 45.8 Centigrade (114.4 Fahrenheit) with high humidity! Perth has been a relatively mild 35 C (95 F) today, but dry heat. Should reach 39 C (102) by the weekend. Bliss.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Lee]

(snip)
Does anyone have any info on the LV version that is supposed to be out later this year?

Rob, if you are reading this, can you give me/us any info without having to kill us? Generalities are ok. I am looking to see if it is worth the wait or if I should just get the LN.

Thoughts? Comments?

Always appreciated.

Hi -

Not a lot I can really say right now, other than it will be a good "other" choice for you folks.

We'll be doing a few things differently than Stanley did. At the moment, we have only a right hand body on order, but I'm being heavily lobbied by left-handers for a version there too. Pricing should be in the $300-$400 range... possibly with a "get 'em off the fence" intro price..... :).

It has been designed to be used for both shooting and jointing ....

Cheers -

Rob

[Tim Null]

Thanks Rob.

The LV 51 is that "L" shaped version that is specific for miters and works really well. Right now I use mu LV BU Jack, and it works well, but it has a tendency to tilt toward the work piece if you are not careful. The LV version seems to have more mass on the bottom and thus would resist tilting.

My question is this: Does the new LV plane have a configuration that would aid stability and resist tilting? More so than the LV BU Jack? Enough to warrant it's purchase when I have planes for jointing as well? I am really looking for a miter specific plane, one that does this extremely well, better than other planes like my BU Jack.

Thanks again.

[Tim Null]

Sorry, I meant LN 51. Typo.....LOL

[Rob Lee]

Thanks Rob.

The LV 51 is that "L" shaped version that is specific for miters and works really well. Right now I use mu LV BU Jack, and it works well, but it has a tendency to tilt toward the work piece if you are not careful. The LV version seems to have more mass on the bottom and thus would resist tilting.

My question is this: Does the new LV plane have a configuration that would aid stability and resist tilting? More so than the LV BU Jack? Enough to warrant it's purchase when I have planes for jointing as well? I am really looking for a miter specific plane, one that does this extremely well, better than other planes like my BU Jack.

Thanks again.


Hi Tim -

The new shooting plane has a different mass distribution, an angled blade, different registration surfaces, and a different grip.... so the answer is yes...

Cheers -

Rob

[Sam Babbage]

It's probably too late in the design stage to change, but if somehow you could design a double grip that could be pushed by righties and pulled by lefties, you could avoid two models. The traditionalist lefties might be mortified, but if they were really traditionalist they would have been forces to learn tools right handed. :P

[Rob Lee]

It's probably too late in the design stage to change, but if somehow you could design a double grip that could be pushed by righties and pulled by lefties, you could avoid two models. The traditionalist lefties might be mortified, but if they were really traditionalist they would have been forces to learn tools right handed. :P

Hmm... that sounds like a right-handers solution.... :)

We also explored a double blade/double handle solution, and didn't like it....

No.... we'll either do it the right way, or not at all.

Better be a lot of left-handed mitre-shooting people out there though...!

Cheers -

Rob

[Erik Christensen]

ahhh man that really sux - I had inoculated myself from the LN 51 lust by convincing myself that there is no way I would get enough use to justify 500$ - LV comes up with something as good or better, esp with PM-V11 blade at a "get 'em off the fence" intro price and I am toast.... hello my name is Erik and I have a tool acquisition addition

[Greg Berlin]

Ooooo I'm excited now!! I've looked at the ln mitre plane and loved it until I saw the price and thought, that's a luxury I can live without especially with my bevel up jack plane. This will be on my wish list for sure. I love LV tools more than any because not only are they high quality, but I love the ingenuity that goes into the products. For example: LN thinks, "how can we take a Stanley #5 and make it the highest quality #5 (when it's still just a really nice Stanley bedrock) and then LV thinks "how can we take a Stanley #5 and improve upon it to make it work better and easier for people to use." I like that!

[daniel lane]

Hmm... that sounds like a right-handers solution.... :)

We also explored a double blade/double handle solution, and didn't like it....

No.... we'll either do it the right way, or not at all.

Better be a lot of left-handed mitre-shooting people out there though...!

Cheers -

Rob

And for thinking of me and my ilk, you retain a customer for life, AND sell one of these planes! :)


daniel (à gauche)

[Gary Herrmann]

Rob, will you be offering a 52 as well - the sled?

[Rob Lee]

Rob, will you be offering a 52 as well - the sled?

Hi Gary -

No plans to at the moment... but will not rule it out...

Cheers -

Rob

[Richard Shaefer]

Hi -

Not a lot I can really say right now, other than it will be a good "other" choice for you folks.

We'll be doing a few things differently than Stanley did. At the moment, we have only a right hand body on order, but I'm being heavily lobbied by left-handers for a version there too. Pricing should be in the $300-$400 range... possibly with a "get 'em off the fence" intro price..... :).

It has been designed to be used for both shooting and jointing ....

Cheers -

Rob

Any chance we'll be able to see the new plane at the wooden boat show at the end of June?

[David Keller NC]

I have been lusting over the LN miter plane for a while now. I am getting close to actually ordering one, when I saw the post on the LV that is in the works. Does anyone have any info on the LV version that is supposed to be out later this year?


Tim - A comment about miter planes. I've used (and own) a lot of different solutions, all the way from traditional British-design wooden "strike-block" planes to the Stanely-design planes through to high-end British infill mitres. All of them have different usage characteristics.

One thing I've noted is that the Stanely-design #51 is more difficult for me to use than the strike-block/Stanley-design #9/British infill mitres. The reason is where the plane is gripped. Taking a Stanley-design #9 as an example, I use the "hot-dog" grip, and the force of the planing stroke (and the downward force on the shooting board) is all registered very close to the cutting edge. With the #51, the grip is quite a long ways back from the cutting edge, at least if the rear tote is used to grip the plane.

The #51 works very well in softwoods and the softer hardwoods like tulip poplar, but even with the incredible heft of the L-N version, I find it more difficult to get a consistent end-grain shaving off of the harder domestic hardwoods like cherry, maple and walnut.

In my opinion, the "ultimate" miter plane is a large-size British design infill skewed miter. But using such a plane in the shop gives me the willies, because they're very valuable, either purchased as a newly-made plane from a modern infill maker or an antique. And I have a concrete floor.

So - I find more use for the L-N version of the Stanely #9 as a shooting plane than any other in my possession. It is very versatile - because it doesn't have a skew blade, it can be used on a shooting board in both right-handed and left-handed configurations. That is sometimes very handy, though not totally necessary.

Food for thought, and just one man's $0.02.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi David

What is the cutting angle of the infill skewed mitre plane to which you refer? If it has a 20 degree bed (likely), the cutting angle will not be lower that 45 degrees. The LN #51 has a 45 degree cutting angle and a 20 degree skew.

You may be interested in the comparison I made between the LN #9, LN #51, and LV LAJ. The results may surprise you.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ShootingPlanesCompared.html

One way to improve a shooting board's performance is to make the plane as stable as possible. The #51 gets a good part of its performance from the stability imparted by the #52 shooting board. To create this on any shooting board, you need to add a running fence ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Richard Shaefer]

I completely agree with this. I've used all three L-N varietals for shooting: the 62 jack, the 9 mitre, and the 51 shoot. Whatever the 51 loses in skew angle (and it's not much, all three should be able to produce polished end grain if sharpened properly), it more than makes up in ergonomic happiness. the running fence is key, and it should be mounted with slotted holes to make up for differental wear from use.

[Chris Griggs]

My opinion should be taken with a grain of salt (in general, but especially here), but when I used them at shows I actually liked the no 9 better then 51 as well. I love shooting with my LV LA jack, but I must say the no. 9 is darn comfortable to grip. The 51 while remarkable in performance, felt awkward to me. That said, the No. 9 is essentially a standard bench/block plane designed for shooting, whereas the 51 is whole different animal. Given that I'm used to shooting with my LA Jack it makes sense that the No. 9, being more similar and thus more familiar, would initially feel more comfortable to me than the 51. My guess is that once one gets used to using the 51 anything else seems a bit weenie. That said, if I were going to buy one or the other, I'd probably plump for the no. 9... I just like it better. I'm not going to though, as I'm perfectly happy shooting with my LA Jack (though I wish Rob would make me a hotdog, as I've thus far been too lazy to make my own). I must also admit though, I am looking forward to seeing what Rob and his cronies come up with...

[Derek Cohen]

My guess is that ...

Hi Chris

If you read my article (above) you will discover that the LV LA Jack has the potential to out plane the #9, and that it can also be more comfortable and controllable than the #9 without a hotdog if you follow my handhold suggestion.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Kees Heiden]

Don't you need a left and a right hand version when mitering heavilly profiled pictureframes? Otherwise you must make a complicated support to be be able to mitre the offhand one on a righthanded shootingboard.

Not that I really know, because I never miter pictureframes, just something I was thinking about.

[Richard Shaefer]

Don't you need a left and a right hand version when mitering heavilly profiled pictureframes? Otherwise you must make a complicated support to be be able to mitre the offhand one on a righthanded shootingboard.

Not that I really know, because I never miter pictureframes, just something I was thinking about.

If you miter picture frames that much, you probably already have a dedicated guillotine for it.

[Joe Bailey]

I'm perfectly happy shooting with my LA Jack (though I wish Rob would make me a hotdog, as I've thus far been too lazy to make my own).

All kidding aside, how 'bout it Rob - a matching, hotdog handle for the LA jack? There's a huge existing base of potential buyers, and you already have access to the appropriate wood ...??

[Chris Fournier]

I have found that the closer my hand grip is to the cutting edge, the more I feel that I have control. For this reason I really like the LN #9 (same reason I love the LM 102) for trimming mitres. Of course the body of the #9 is well set up for mitering as well. The #9 represents an efficient tool for the task if you want a dedicated tool to shoot with.

[Chris Griggs]

My guess is that ...

Hi Chris

If you read my article (above) you will discover that the LV LA Jack has the potential to out plane the #9, and that it can also be more comfortable and controllable than the #9 without a hotdog if you follow my handhold suggestion.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Yep, I've read your article. It's one of the things that made me go with the LV LA jack instead of the no. 9 when I got a dedicated shooter. No regrets. If were making the decision again, it would be the same (when I said I'd choose the No. 9 just meant I preferred to the No. 51...for the few minutes I used it anyway which isn;t really a good evaluation).

Anyway, the LA jack is uber comfortable for shooting, I just like the roundedness of the hotdog in my hand, and I think thats the main reason I found the 9 so comfy. For most things, its probably pretty moot but when shooting larger pieces of harderwood, that require a bit more force there are times when a hotdog would be nice. Truth be told, those are situations that would not be issue if I was a more consistent sawyer and might be better handled by striking a line all the way around the board and simply clamping it in my vise to plane the end grain. Still sometimes its nice to really be able to but some extra force behind it. For me that extra forward force would be transferred through the palm and in those situations the hotdog would provide some extra registration and comfort for the palm.

Come to think of it, I don't think I want a hotdog per se, as I like the basic grip of the LA jack.... maybe more of a palm rest to cover and follow the edge of the side wing where my palm exerts force...something that uses the built in grip but just fills my hand a little more. I'll probably just get of my duff and make my own something one of these days.