What's a good sled runner?

[Matt Meiser]

I need to make a new sled for my new saw. I tried wood runners in the past and found it moved too much over the seasons for my liking. I also tried UHMW on my last sled which was hard to get installed straight. I'm currently looking at the Kreg ones, but almost $50 for sled runners? Are they really worth it?

[Steve Kohn]

Have you considered just regular bar stock? Obviously drilling and tapping are necessary but standard 3/4 by 1/4 bar stock worked for me. I've used steel, but don't see why aluminum wouldn't work also.

[ken masoumi]

The last time I made a sled for my TS I used plywood,so far so good.

[Matt Meiser]

I priced precision ground steel bar at McMaster and it makes the Kreg parts look cheap. Is standard steel precise enough?

[Jerry Bruette]

I took some advice from Bill Huber and used Incra miter sliders. Mounted easy and I think they have the best adjustment mechanism.

Jerry

[Matt Meiser]

The aluminum ones that look like inverted t-track or the steel ones that have the adjustment discs like their miter gauges?

[Brad Adams]

Standard steel bar stock. Use a hammer and vise to beat it a little bigger to fit the slot precisely. You don't have to widen the whole bar just a few spots to get it to fit right. A little file work after that and your all set. With just a little work, I've found steel runners to be way better than wood. Tried the uhmw and didn't like it at all, just to flexible. I've had steel runners on my sleds for fifteen years and have yet to see any wear on the miter slots of my unisaw.

[John McClanahan]

I bought bar stock by the foot from a local company that sells machine shop supplies. I don't think it's precision ground, but a lot better than what's found at the steel yard. Price wasn't too bad.

John

[Jamie Buxton]

Do you have a thickness planer? If so, use hardwood. With the planer, you can make the hardwood exactly the width of the slot on your tablesaw, or just a few thousandths narrower so it slides nicely but doesn't rattle.

I make the runner a tad taller than the slot is deep. I put the runner in the slot, put glue on top, and put the sled down on top of that, with few weights to ensure good contact. After the glue dries, I take it off the saw, flip it, and use a hand plane to reduce the height of the runner until it fits in the slot without hitting the bottom of the slot. This procedure assures that the runner is absolutely straight when you glue it to the sled.

[Jerry Bruette]

The aluminum ones that look like inverted t-track or the steel ones that have the adjustment discs like their miter gauges?

The aluminum ones. They're already drilled and tapped, all you should have t do is mount them and drill some through holes where the adjustment screws are incase you need to adjust sometime in the future.

[Bruce Wrenn]

3/8 X 3/4 1018 steel. This what miter gauge bars are made from. Alan Schaffter told me about this product. Here a 12' length sells for about $36. Some 3/8 X 3/4 aluminum is too wide, by a couple thousandths. I can't remember where I bought a piece of 3/8 X 3/4 aluminum that is a perfect fit, but only comes in 24" lengths.

[Phil Thien]

Here is how I do mine:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?82788

The trick is the UHMW plastic has to sit in a shallow groove in the sled base to keep it straight.

If you are doing a sled with two runners just make two half sleds and use the front and rear fences to connect them.

If your sled base is thick enough you can just screw through the runners into the base.

I've tried the Inca bars, they can be difficult to adjust so they stay snug as they extend past the front or back of the saw.

The UHMW plastic ones are always snug, there is no play whatsoever. They also slide perfectly, no binding or anything.

[glenn bradley]

I have used UHMW, Incra Miter Sliders and QSWO with equal success. All three have been in service for years.

[Don Welch]

Another vote for Incra - steel ones w/ adjustments for slack take-up

[Richard Coers]

Use quarter sawn hard maple, or white oak. Also mahogany is very stable, so also works well. Hard to beat the price, and if it's a little snug, grab the cabinet scraper.

[Michael Mayo]

I bought some of these with the bigger tracks to put them into and i tried the t-bar track in my Rigid TS3650 saw miter track and they fit like a glove. So I am at some point going to get some more of it to replace the wooden runners on my current sled. The only dowside if there is one is that the t-bar track is captive in the miter slot so you have to guide the sled into the slots when you want to use the sled which is a minor drawback. The thing I like is that they really fit beautifully and slid inside the miter track like greased lightning. The one thing that I am not sure about is whether or not it will still slide nicely once tightened down to the bottom of a sled. The t-bar track doesn't seem to sit proud of the saw top at all so it might just be too snug once tightened down.

http://www.ttrackusa.com/Assets/09_images/t%20and%20Miter%20Track/miter_t_bar_600.jpg
http://www.ttrackusa.com/track_%20systems.htm#1021

[Rich Engelhardt]

I used pine for my runners.
I was in a hurry since I needed a sled right away and didn't have any hard wood.
I figured it was only temporary for about a half dozen cuts.

Three years ago I sprung for an aluminum 30" Kreg - which I may use if/when the pine runners work loose.....maybe...the pine has worked so well, I may just go with it again.

I keep the runners well waxed & the fit is as tight today as it was three years ago.

[Bill Huber]

I use the Icra aluminum, they are are light and easy to install. I like my sled to have 2 runners and with steel it makes things much heavier.

I use double sided tape and the table saw fence to install them. I adjust the miter track to fit in the slot, put double sided tape on them with a spacer under them to raise them just above the top of the saw. I set the fence on the right to the point the sled will set. I then put the sled against the fence and lower it down on the the miter slides and press them down so they make good contract with the sled.

Now with a small bit, one that just goes though the holes in the slides I drill holes in the sled. I then counter sink the holes, remove the tape from the slides and then screw them on. Works great and I have had no problem with them at all.

http://www.incra.com/product_jfc_miterslider.htm

[Roger Pozzi]

I use the Icra aluminum, they are are light and easy to install. I like my sled to have 2 runners and with steel it makes things much heavier.

I use double sided tape and the table saw fence to install them. I adjust the miter track to fit in the slot, put double sided tape on them with a spacer under them to raise them just above the top of the saw. I set the fence on the right to the point the sled will set. I then put the sled against the fence and lower it down on the the miter slides and press them down so they make good contract with the sled.

Now with a small bit, one that just goes though the holes in the slides I drill holes in the sled. I then counter sink the holes, remove the tape from the slides and then screw them on. Works great and I have had no problem with them at all.

http://www.incra.com/product_jfc_miterslider.htm


I think you have mentioned that before Bill, and, I seem to remember you mentioning that you have/had a Bosch 4100 saw.
So, I proceeded to create my sled being extremely careful and precise. Fantastic!! Then, I discovered that the spacing of the adjustments on the bars was far enough apart that the rear adjuster was out of the slot before I finished the cut, allowing the sled to move slightly.:mad:
After much measuring and frustration, I decided that this method just won't work on my Bosch saw.
Now, I'm waiting on the Zero-Play bars from Micro Jig which appear to be a much better option. http://microjig.com/products/zeroplay-guide-bar/index.shtml

[Mark Beiting]

Matt,

+1 on what Bruce said. 1018 cold rolled bar stock, $27 for a 12 footer here, dead straight and clean, much better than any of the aluminum ones.

Mark

[Phil Thien]

I think you have mentioned that before Bill, and, I seem to remember you mentioning that you have/had a Bosch 4100 saw.
So, I proceeded to create my sled being extremely careful and precise. Fantastic!! Then, I discovered that the spacing of the adjustments on the bars was far enough apart that the rear adjuster was out of the slot before I finished the cut, allowing the sled to move slightly.:mad:
After much measuring and frustration, I decided that this method just won't work on my Bosch saw.
Now, I'm waiting on the Zero-Play bars from Micro Jig which appear to be a much better option. http://microjig.com/products/zeroplay-guide-bar/index.shtml

I agree with what you found on the Incra bars, I experienced that too.

The thing about the Micro Jig is the relatively short length. For a sled you'd have to use two per slot, minimum. I have a 24" cross-cut sled, I'd probably have to use three. In my case for my large crosscut sled, I'd have two bars in the slot, and one hanging over the front edge of the saw, when starting a long cross-cut. So I'd be a bit worried about it catching as it enters the slot when I'm pushing the work forward.

[Peter Quinn]

I've used incra aluminum bars, UHmW, and various vertical grain hardwood strips for different sleds over the years. For an average sized plywood cross cut sled I like the incra bars best, for smaller sleds like miter jigs or coping sleds UHmW or wood works pretty well for me. I bought some hard nylon set screws which I tap cross ways into the wood and plastic slides so I can snug things up. Yup, hard maple takes a steel tap pretty well, and the nylon set screws wear very well too. I always make the slides snug at the start, but things wear, and I like adjustability on a good jig.

For one particularly long sled I bought mild steel bar stock from online metals.com, drilled and taped this for set screws, ran a dado into the sled to set the alignment, works great, though tapping all those 8-32 set screws into 3/4" of steel was a growth experience for me.... Once I stopped swearing and breaking piles of taps and got some tap magic lubricant things went pretty well.

[Bill Huber]

I think you have mentioned that before Bill, and, I seem to remember you mentioning that you have/had a Bosch 4100 saw.
So, I proceeded to create my sled being extremely careful and precise. Fantastic!! Then, I discovered that the spacing of the adjustments on the bars was far enough apart that the rear adjuster was out of the slot before I finished the cut, allowing the sled to move slightly.:mad:
After much measuring and frustration, I decided that this method just won't work on my Bosch saw.
Now, I'm waiting on the Zero-Play bars from Micro Jig which appear to be a much better option. http://microjig.com/products/zeroplay-guide-bar/index.shtml

I don't have or ever did have a Bosch table saw, not sure where that came from. I had a Craftsman and now have a Jet. The slides work great on both of them.
I have just 2 of the adjusters in the slot at different times with no slop, you have to have all 3 adjusted or it will give you slop. As long as there are 2 adjusters in the slot it should not have slop.

[Mike Langford]

I use hardwood like Jamie, but I machine the runners to the exact width of the slots and just a tad lower than the top.....then I put pennies all in the slots (got to use dem brownies fer sumthin' :rolleyes:) then with the runners pre-drilled and counter sunk and double-sided tape on top of the runners....I place the runners in the slots on top of the pennies (the runners are now slightly above the table top) then I place my sled on top of the runners and press down firmly....remove the sled, flip it and put screw in the counter-sunk holes...remove the pennies from the slots (very important to the effective use of the sled!) and then Bob's your uncle!!! I haven't had any problems going on for 5 years......YMMV

[Bruce Wrenn]

tapping all those 8-32 set screws into 3/4" of steel was a growth experience for me.... Once I stopped swearing and breaking piles of taps and got some tap magic lubricant things went pretty well.Instead of tapping through whole width of bar, drill pilot hole for tap, and then go back and drill out pilot hole to diameter of screw, half way through bar. Most set screws are less than 3/8", so extra threads don't do anything.

[Curt Harms]

3/8" X 3/4" mild steel. The stuff I bought was a little oversized but a light touch with an angle grinder fixed that. I find it useful to be able to cut durable threads into the bar.

[Bob Vavricka]

Make your wood runners adjustable. I'm not sure where I found this idea, but it's not original with me. It may not be obvious in the pics, but a small set screw threaded in the side allows you to spread the kerf slightly to make a good fit. I also saw some online where they make a small kerf in the center running parallel to the sides and used a flat head screw in the center of the slot to wedge the sides. Google adjustable wood sled runners.
253695253696

[Alan Lightstone]

I like the zero play ones, but the Incra ones work just fine too.

[Roger Pozzi]

I don't have or ever did have a Bosch table saw, not sure where that came from. I had a Craftsman and now have a Jet. The slides work great on both of them.
I have just 2 of the adjusters in the slot at different times with no slop, you have to have all 3 adjusted or it will give you slop. As long as there are 2 adjusters in the slot it should not have slop.


Sorry Bill, didn't mean to upset you with my poor memory.
Anyway, the 24" Incra slider does have 3 adjustments whereas the 18" has only 2. There-in lies the problem. That, and the table length of the Bosch creates the overall difficulty of using slides without full adjustability.
By the way, I remembered who the other highly respected member was, and he's actually on a different forum.

[peter gagliardi]

I have done a few jobs with Teak over the years, and saved the rippings. I use Teak for my runners - naturally oily, so it slides nice, it has the least movement of any wood seasonally, so no issue there either.

[Rod Sheridan]

What's a good sled runner?

Why Rudolf of course, although he's a little flashy for my tastes.

Might need him today if this snow doesn't let up.

Hi Matt, I've made runners from quarter sawn white oak, which last a long time, however I also have purchased 3/4 X 3/8 cold rolled bar stock which is very inexpensive...........Regards, Rod.

[Bill Huber]

Sorry Bill, didn't mean to upset you with my poor memory.
Anyway, the 24" Incra slider does have 3 adjustments whereas the 18" has only 2. There-in lies the problem. That, and the table length of the Bosch creates the overall difficulty of using slides without full adjustability.
By the way, I remembered who the other highly respected member was, and he's actually on a different forum.

I am not upset at all, I just wanted to make sure you knew I didn't have a Bosch.
I understand the problem now and could see that would not work too well.
I guess the best thing to do is just go buy a new Saw Stop...:D:D

[jim gossage]

I have used the incra before but as others have said, their snuggness varies depending on how many of the expansion areas are engaged in the track, and they can be touchy to get just right. I recently used some UHMW runners and they are pretty good, but a little tricky to get on straight. I solved that by clamping a straight piece of hardwood on either side of the runner to leave a channel for the runner, and then glued and screwed it in. Still, a little tedious. So today, I picked up a pair of microjig zeroplay runners for $12 each. These are no-brainers to fit in the slots perfectly and then screw onto your sled. Their only problem is that they are short, about 9", so you might need to run several end to end. I suspect that these will be my new go to system for runners.

[Thomas Canfield]

Do you have a thickness planer? If so, use hardwood. With the planer, you can make the hardwood exactly the width of the slot on your tablesaw, or just a few thousandths narrower so it slides nicely but doesn't rattle.

I make the runner a tad taller than the slot is deep. I put the runner in the slot, put glue on top, and put the sled down on top of that, with few weights to ensure good contact. After the glue dries, I take it off the saw, flip it, and use a hand plane to reduce the height of the runner until it fits in the slot without hitting the bottom of the slot. This procedure assures that the runner is absolutely straight when you glue it to the sled.

To eliminate the hand planning, you could just add some thin strips in the slot to raise the guide above the slot for gluing while still having the majority of guide in the slot for straightness.

[John Hays]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the Aluminum Miter Bars from Rockler. I'll admit that they're a little more expensive than they need to be, but I used them on my crosscut sled and I haven't had a single problem so far.

Here's the link: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21651

[Matt Meiser]

They look to be the same thing as the Kreg but the Kreg are more readily available.

[Danny Thompson]

Matt,

+1 on what Bruce said. 1018 cold rolled bar stock, $27 for a 12 footer here, dead straight and clean, much better than any of the aluminum ones.

Mark

Bruce and Mark,

What do you use to cut your steel bars to length?

Danny

[Stephen Cherry]

The woodpecker bar is pretty good as it comes, and does not need adjustment screws:
http://www.woodpeck.com/steelmiterbar.html#1172

Fits the slot pretty good.

[Matt Meiser]

Uh oh...looks like Woodpecker forgot to renew their domain name!

I looked at a cached version from Google but that's only 18". I'm going to build a 24" sled if I build one.

[Bill White]

I've got UHMW on my sled, but if I were building new, I'd use the Incra bars. Incra stuff is hard to beat.
Bill

[Bob Wingard]

Before I retired, I dragged home every bit of scrap/used/leftover UHMW that I could get my hands on, thinking I would use it for things such as this. Didn't take too long to find out that it is (my opinion) absolutely worthless as runners. It has a tremendously high thermal expansion coefficient ... shrinks in cold weather ... swell in hot ... one day, it's sloppy loose ... next day you have to really lean on it to make it move.

I've finally settled on nominal 3/8" X 3/4" bar stock that I drill, countersink, and tap every few inches down one side ... then screw in flathead brass screws, adjusting them for the fit I want. Cheap, accurate, STABLE ... and ... if the screw heads should ever wear, just unscrew slightly to restore the fit. A tiny drop of blue LocTite keeps them from moving unexpectedly.

[Chris Fournier]

UHMV is nasty. "Delrin" (trade name) or acetal is a pleasure to machine. Honestly your question is too vague for a good answer. Is the sled going to be a shop stalwart that gets used every day or is it a quicky fixture type of thing? For limited usage sleds I use quartered maple. For a shop stand by I use aluminum bar stock.

Aluminum bar stock is easy to tweak - reduce width or peen to increase.

Why would you use steel in a cast iron t-slot? It will wear down your CI!

[Bob Wingard]

If Aluminum was so superior ... why is it that none of the manufacturers use it on their factory supplied miter gauges.

Been using the above mentioned method on my Griz. 1023 for almost 20 years now, and I can't detect any wear in the slots.

[Chris Fournier]

If Aluminum was so superior ... why is it that none of the manufacturers use it on their factory supplied miter gauges.

Been using the above mentioned method on my Griz. 1023 for almost 20 years now, and I can't detect any wear in the slots.

Aluminum costs more Bob. It's also easier to bend so I wouldn't use it on a mitre gauge like the manufacturers supply because it is too exposed to rough handling. Truth is I wouldn't use an OEM mitre gauge at all.

It's pretty simple the way I see it, I would prefer to wear out my runner, not my saw mitre slot so I use a softer material for my runner. I used aluminum runners from the get go with my General 350 with good results. If you have had good results with steel that's great.

[Myk Rian]

Matt;
Did you get any of that phenolic we all bought? That would be perfect to use.

[ian maybury]

One issue to be wary of is is that a steel bar will quickly remove the anodising in an aluminium slot - e.g. as on a format slider.

As Myk - fabric reinforced phenolic is probably a very good compromise between a slippery plastic and a something more rigid and stable. Tough enough to take threaded holes if needed too. It might be advisable to use slotted screw holes to accommodate any movement in the wood of the sled base. Don't know what's available in the US, but you might even get it in ready made/to size bar form. Easy to include the earlier width adjustment too - and it works nicely with a saw and a router.

Another option is to shim a metal bar with UHMW tape. Sounds bit temporary, but works very well. It's possible to buy UHMW self adhesive tape in lots of different thicknesses by the yard from the likes of CS Hyde who give good service http://www.cshyde.com/index.html Measure the slot and bar, calculate the required thicknesses, and then use it to pack a steel or aluminium mitre bar to fit a slot. Wash the bar with lacquer thinners first. It sticks very well, seems to wear very well too, gives a nice silky movement with minimal clearance, and the fit can be fine tuned with a block plane. This is how the Incra mitre gauge is mounted in my Hammer slider.

ian

[Matt Meiser]

Matt;
Did you get any of that phenolic we all bought? That would be perfect to use.

Yes--never even thought of that!

[Bob Wingard]

It's pretty simple the way I see it, I would prefer to wear out my runner, not my saw mitre slot so I use a softer material for my runner.

Hardness does not directly correlate into a higher wear factor ... tool steel is much harder than, say a whetstone ... rub 'em together ... which one wears ??? The whetstone is softer than the tool steel, yet the tool steel wears away faster. Your aluminum runners, or even wooden ones for that matter have a higher possibility of picking up and embedding abrasive particles, which, in turn would wear your miter slots far faster than a hard steel runner

[Chris Fournier]

Hardness does not directly correlate into a higher wear factor ... tool steel is much harder than, say a whetstone ... rub 'em together ... which one wears ??? The whetstone is softer than the tool steel, yet the tool steel wears away faster. Your aluminum runners, or even wooden ones for that matter have a higher possibility of picking up and embedding abrasive particles, which, in turn would wear your miter slots far faster than a hard steel runner


As I mentioned Bob, I am happy that your steel runners are working for you. Your position on steel vs aluminum is not terribly logical but you are happy with what you have done so that's great.

[Brian Kent]

I like the steel and wood combos - ready made:
http://www.sledwarehouse.com/steelrunnersleds.htm

[Bruce Wrenn]

Bruce and Mark,

What do you use to cut your steel bars to length?

DannyHorizontal metal cutting band saw. (I have one.) Next choice is PorterBand. (I have two.) Last choice is hacksaw.