Shop tour 7C

[lou sansone]

Good evening fellow woodworkers

This will be the second to last tour of my shop. Thanks for taking time to look.

I hope you have found them enjoyable and useful.

For those who are new here at SMC I have provided the links to all of the other tours
Shop tour # 1 Main building
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=17821

#2 Lumber storage building
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=17916


#3 Monster lathe
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18192

#4 Work benches
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18204

#6A 16" Table Saw
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18645

#6B 16" Jointer
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18836

#6c Rare Radial Arm Drill press
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18970

#7A 37" timesavers wide belt sander
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=19201

#7B 24" planer
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=19463



Of all the tools I currently own this one is right up there as a real example of good american engineering. Here are the vitals

1973 Moak 36" super bandsaw - 24" Resaw Capacity

3000 lbs with the optional motor shown

Wheels are "carter Super rigid Wheels" high speed balanced up to 180 miles per hour! wheels are 36" x 2" wide. Blade lenght 19' 6"

Main table is 36" x 36" & 20"x18" auxilary table - Tilting via rack and pinion gear set -
Table height 40"

Mechanically equalized upper wheel & lower wheel drum brakes

Motor :
Super slow speed 12 pole motor ( 575 rpm ) : Frame is a 286T ( normal frame for 30hp motor)

I have only see 1 other saw with a super slow speed motor such as this one. They were an option, but an expensive one that was not often ordered. What makes this saw so exceptional it the 575 rpm motor which results in a SFPM of 5400 - pretty much the ideal speed for resawing and hand sawing ( all of the big Italian BS run at this speed for a reason ).

[lou sansone]

couple more pictues

[Richard Wolf]

Lou, that is a serious bandsaw. How do you move these tools into your shop??

Richard

[Dev Emch]

Lou!

Now your talking! That is what I call a band-saur. And what is totally ironic is that as large as this beastie is, it can do everything the smaller 14 incher can. Nice set of upgrades you got with it as well including those carter wheels. This is also a first. First time I have seen brakes on both the top and the bottom. How do these equalized brakes work?

How do you move these things around? Richard, if you look at the pictures of my shaper that I posted, you will see a set of rollers underfoot. Lou, are you using anything like hillmans or GKS type dollies?

You will excuse me for now..... Need to wipe my mouth off:):)

[Bill Simmeth]

Gorgeous saw! Love the Paddock guides -- very nice.

Bill Simmeth
Delaplane, VA

[Bill Simmeth]

Lou!

First time I have seen brakes on both the top and the bottom. How do these equalized brakes work?

Dev... Tanny GHE's (like the one I have :D ) also have dual brakes. Same as in a car -- in fact they are all auto brake components made by Wagner. A master cylinder feeds both drum brake cylinders. The hydraulic pressure equalizes to both cylinders.

Don't know if the Moak does the same (I think one photo says it does), but the GHE has a "sensor" that rides the blade and when/if the blade breaks, the braking system automatically engages...

Bill Simmeth
Delaplane, VA

[Corey Hallagan]

Lou, you got the biggest and greenest bread slicer I have ever seen! :) Seriously, that is one cool piece of equipment! Again, what a beauty of a shop.... but all that horse power scares the bejeebees out of me!

Corey

[Dev Emch]

I take that back. My 416 pancake oliver has brakes on top and bottom. But the top brake only functions when things effectively go wrong such as a blade breakage. The everyday braking is done with the lower brake. I am going to look into these wagner brakes and i may retrofit them to the older saws like the Y-20 and Y-30.... if i ever ever get back to finishing the Y-30.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Lou, Thanks so much for showing all your great machines. I would otherwise never get to see those fantastic old machines. I consider it part of my woodworking education to know something about machines of the past. Thanks again for taking the time to share this with us. Alan in Md.

[Mark Singer]

Lou,

I really like that saw.....if it walks off, you might want to check my shop!:rolleyes:
It is really a beauty! I have seen a few big boys....this one is clean and ready to go...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Lou you certainly like SERIOUS machinery! You have another LUNKER!

[Alan Turner]

Lou,
Great saw. Was the dust extraction port right at the blade a factory standard in 1973, or a later addition?

[lou sansone]

For those who have asked how I move these pieces of equipment around, the answer is "pipe rollers". Just take your time and you are all set. The hickory flooring is very tough and really holds up to the abuse to trying to turn these machines.


lou

[lou sansone]

[QUOTE=Dev Emch]Lou!

Now your talking! That is what I call a band-saur. And what is totally ironic is that as large as this beastie is, it can do everything the smaller 14 incher can. Nice set of upgrades you got with it as well including those carter wheels. This is also a first. First time I have seen brakes on both the top and the bottom. How do these equalized brakes work?


Hi dev
You make a good point about the utility of the saw. Because of the slow speed ( like the mm saws and other italian saws ) it is very comfortable hand feeding material through the saw. Size and scale are deceptive, in the pictures shown here I have a 1/2" blade on the saw. The "paddock guides" have 2.25" dia guild wheels.

Like bill has said, there are other good saws with upper and lower brakes. The moak uses a common cable that runs past the lower wheel and then up to the upper wheel. When you step on the cable, it shuts off the motor and then applies pressure to the brake drums on both wheels.

[Bill Lewis]

Yet another really cool and massive piece of iron. You need to include in the pics something that has scale to really appreciate the size of that monster.

Lou, you know you're going to have to infinitely expand your shop just to keep us entertained.

BTW the links/descriptions to 6A and 6B are swapped. not that it matters,:cool:

[David Fried]

Lou, you know you're going to have to infinitely expland your shop just to keep us entertained.

Lou,

Entertained and imformed. Please don't think this is really the second to last installment but rather the second to last until you find the ______ (fill in the blank) you've been looking for.

Last week I stopped in to visit the gentleman who made my windows (12 over 8) in 1993. I knew very little about woodworking at the time but his bandsaw made a lasting impression on me. I believe he got it from his father. It is a 36" American. Nice saw but very basic. It gives me a better appreciation for yours and the options you sought out.

How do you decide you want a Moak with options a,b,c? Is it from experience? Do you pour over old catalogs?

Finally, just out of curiousity, how long did it take you to find that beauty?

Thanks

Dave Fried

[chris toomey]

lou

do you have any sons? interested in adopting one? i'm house broken, and i don't eat very much. already had orthodonture....college is paid off.....what do you think? maybe even part-time?

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Wow, that's a very nice saw....24" resaw capacity is HUGE!

[lou sansone]

Lou,

Entertained and imformed. Please don't think this is really the second to last installment but rather the second to last until you find the ______ (fill in the blank) you've been looking for.

Last week I stopped in to visit the gentleman who made my windows (12 over 8) in 1993. I knew very little about woodworking at the time but his bandsaw made a lasting impression on me. I believe he got it from his father. It is a 36" American. Nice saw but very basic. It gives me a better appreciation for yours and the options you sought out.

How do you decide you want a Moak with options a,b,c? Is it from experience? Do you pour over old catalogs?

Finally, just out of curiousity, how long did it take you to find that beauty?

Thanks

Dave Fried

Dear david

Great questions. Here are a few answers

1. I have been looking for this exact saw non-stop for about 3 years. For those who think that they are going to get a $400 tannewitz from some furniture factory, good luck! Tell me how it works. I have spoken to several folks who have done this. I Asked them " so how does it run?" the usuall answer is "well I haven't really gotten around to running it yet, ran it a little, but not sure about it, real nice except it vibrates like crazy and ..... " Bottom line is you usually get what you pay for and furniture factories kill machines.


2. As alan turner will tell you, you want to buy this type of equipment out of a pattern shop. They were really taken care of usually and were purchased with the understanding that a real craftsman was going to hand feed material through the machine and not have some big honking power feeder bolted to the table where a HS drop out was shoving wood through as fast as he could.

3. I know that I will make some folks mad, but you need to look for a SFPM in the 5400 range and not in the 8000 to 12000 feet range ( BTW all of the best large Italian BS run in this 5400 SFPM range - there is a reason for it ) . Three years ago I had a vey long conversation with the owner of Northfield Foundry about this. He was emphatic about this. There are only 2 ways to achieve that 5400 SFPM speed. A super slow speed, 12 pole motor - ( the motor alone is about $ 3500 ) or a belt drive setup. The main advantage of these 36" BS is the fact that they are direct drive and the vibrations are held to a minimum. This is the first machine I have ever found that had that option.

4. Another long conversation with the owner of Timberwolf Saw blades also confirmed the same SFPM value in the 5400 range.

5. The old American you saw was a " CI spoke wheel" job that were limited as to the speed they could run. Often they were belted and slow them down. The other problem was the wheels were harder to balance and tended to fracture at higher speeds. Carter wheels were developed for just that reason. My saw only runs @ 60 MPH, but the wheels are balanced and capable of up to 180 MPH. High speed versions of my saw are running in the 90 to 120 mph range all day. This would be pretty hard without the Carter wheels. The other advantage to the carter wheels is the quick change tires. The large Cast Iron wheels are much more time consuming to re-rubber than the carter wheels.

thanks for the questions - since you live so close to me, you are more than welcomed to stop by some time and check it out for your self.

lou

[lou sansone]

Lou,
Great saw. Was the dust extraction port right at the blade a factory standard in 1973, or a later addition?

Hi alan

The saw came standard with 2 dust ports, one under the guides and one at the rear of the lower wheel. Having the dust port right at the wheel really works pretty good.

Hey we are still waiting for the zimmerman !!!:o

lou

[John Renzetti]

hi Lou, Great pictures of that Moak bandsaw.
I believe the old Northfields had brakes on the top and bottom. A friend of mine managed to acquire the 36" Northfield that had been used in the workshops of the US Capitol. This one had a braking system for the top wheel.
take care,
John

[Vaughn McMillan]

Being relatively new to SMC, I hadn't read your shop tour before tonight. I just finished reading the whole thing in one sitting, and all I can say is wow. (It's hard to speak or type with my jaw in my lap.) You are a very fortunate person to have such sweet shop, and have spread that fortune by sharing the details with us. Thanks.

- Vaughn

[lou sansone]

Being relatively new to SMC, I hadn't read your shop tour before tonight. I just finished reading the whole thing in one sitting, and all I can say is wow. (It's hard to speak or type with my jaw in my lap.) You are a very fortunate person to have such sweet shop, and have spread that fortune by sharing the details with us. Thanks.

- Vaughn

Hi vaughn

glad that you liked that tour, and I hope that some of the features I have built into my shop will be useful for others who are planning their own shops. I have made a few mistakes along the way, but most have not been that bad. As I have stated before, the one thing I would do different is to have made it about 4 feet longer, and possibly put a partial basement in one section of the shop. Since my machines are so heavy, it seems best to have them sittiing directly on a firm floor.
regards
lou

[Byron Trantham]

Now that's a band saw! Eat your heart out MM... :rolleyes:

[Blaise Gaston]

I just got a Moak Super 36 made in 1986. It is in very good condition with the exception of the brake cable which is missing. I can not see exactly how it is meant to attach at the top of the saw or how it will turn the power off when the pedal is stepped on. Do you have the brake hooked up on your saw, and if so could you tell me how to do it?

Thanks much
Blaise Gaston
434.973.1801
mail@blaisegaston.com
www.blaisegaston.com