BLM Burl hollow form

[Timothy Mann]

This is the first turning I used my homemade steady rest on. I also used the golden mean calipers I made to make the finials. The body was rough turned before I made the calipers so they were not used for the body. The upper final is 2/3 the overall height of the vessel in length. The lower finial is 1/3 the overall length of the vessel in height. I am very happy with the way this turned out however, to my eye the upper finial is either to long, or to bulky. I cant put my finger on which. I would be glad to hear any thoughts on this.

Big Leaf Maple Burl. Holly Lid and Double Finials, I wanted to do something out of the norm for me and I like the white on this piece. About "13 tall including the finial. "4 at the widest. 5 coats of WOP and beall buffed with Ren wax.

My first use of my new photo tent. I have shadows when I used the flash so I turned it off for most of the photos. I know they are tilted to will work on that.

Comments and Critiques are all welcome.

[charlie knighton]

pretty good Tim

[Mike Cruz]

Tim, first of all, overall, I think it is nice. From what I can see, there are no tool, sanding, or finishing marks. So, kudos there!

As for the form on the HF, I'm not sure if it is the pics or if it is how you turned it, but it looks like the curve flattens at the bottom. Personally, I would have liked to see that curve continue more...making the bottom narrower. Now whether you tuck or don't tuck the bottom, while another subject, would be totally taste preference...

As for the finial, I'm not the best one to critique it... My two cents is that the largest bulge is too big. But take that for what 2 cents buys you these days...

The matte finish really seems to fit this piece. Good job not going shiny.

[Greg Ketell]

First things first: I really like the "surprise" of the interior finial and, even more, I like the fine detail on the top-most/bottom-most "spire".

Now, to answer your question, in my opinion, I think the height of the finial is good. But I agree with Mike that it might be just a hair chubby.

Overall, a beautiful piece. I only hope to be able to do one this nice in the future!

[Steve Schlumpf]

Timothy - that BLM sure is some beautiful wood!

I agree with Mike on a smaller base area/footprint and also that finial overpowers the form. One thing to remember is that the Golden Means is nothing more than a reference, not an absolute. While it does get you very close, you have to play with final dimensions to get things to work.

As far as the onion 'bulb' being too large, I will agree and point out that, in my opinion, the bulb should fit within an imaginary curve that is created by the neck and lip of the form. You will note that if you extend the curve of the lip of the form, it would intersect the finial at about the 2/3 mark. That would give the proper height for this and if the bulb fit within that same curve, it would be the proper diameter.

All this is just my opinion and the final dimensions in any piece are always what works best for you!

[mark ravensdale]

That's a great idea, I have NEVER thought of turning a lid with two finials before, nice job mate!!!

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Not many varieties of wood finish up as beautifully as Big Leaf Maple. Sweet job on the form and finial. I won't get into finial shape because there has to be a range of acceptable design or everyone's work would look the same. However, I will comment on your photography. The tent was obviously a good purchase because the shadows are soft and enhance the framing of the item. You seem to have found the combination of lights, location and filter material that makes your photography enhance the work.
faust

[Thomas Heck]

Looks great! Looks like your steady rest did the job.

[Timothy Mann]

Thank you for the comments and the suggestions. Mike your right the curve does not flow as well as it should towards the bottom. This is something I am trying to be more diligent about on my current project as well as my future works. Steve I do understand the golden mean is just a reference but it is interesting to experiment with the new tool and see what happens from useing it. I will take your suggestions and try to apply them while turning, thank you again.

[Michelle Rich]

your two ended finial is delightful.. in the last pic the onion appears to be in an acceptable size range..pictures don't get everything just perfectly in proportion..I know this as my camera squishes everything in height. My only nit-pick is the flow from shoulder to base..more full curve, and a tucked base, would have put this gorgeous vase in the wow category.

[Tim Rinehart]

Tim, I like the woods that you chose...two of my favorites and your finish work looks great, which is important in presenting a piece like this that is strictly meant as art, and not a utility piece.
You seem to recognize something not as you intended and some of that may be personal taste and other is influence from what you generally hear and recognize as "good form". Take that with a grain of salt, breaking outside the norm is needed and appreciated!
I like the inverted other finial, I've done it once and it draws nice comments when people open it, plus it provides a bit of ballast from falling off too easily.

I took the liberty of addressing a variation of the finial for you to consider. I think the base form is fine as it is, a slight bit more rounding to continue the curve at the bottom couple inches would have been nice, but the whole concept of tucking or not as mentioned, is subjective and purely a matter of personal taste.

Please keep in mind, I don't even do this for myself enough, though I should. I typically shy from finials as I end up making mine too fat...I think it's some goofy effect from bifocals. Once I take it off the lathe and stand it up...I go, gee...that's sure fatter than it looked horizontal. Twisting my head sideways while on the lathe doesn't seem to help.

Essentially, I shortened the finial a tad, removing some of the straight section from the top half. I then squeezed it in a bit.
253567
When possible, I suggest drawing out your form and finial on paper (full scale) and try to see what it looks like, then force yourself to actually measure the diameters/lengths while on the lathe till it gets easier to translate off the view of the sketch alone. It's a discipline that comes with practice...believe me, I'm not done either!

[Brian Kent]

Sorry I can't see this without asking, but do any of your pictures show the shorter finial on top? I have never done a finial successfully so I am without a reference point to comment, but I like the idea of making one double ended in order to compare 2 ideas.

While I can picture a narrower foot form-wise, where is the limit to where it will stand on its own without a stand (that question is to anyone)?

[Mike Cruz]

As long as it is balanced well enough...it could be 1/2" base! But I hope your floor doesn't move when someone walks by... ;)

Brian, on a 4" x 4 " or 5" x 5" form, I've gone to about 1 1/4" and it is just fine. Trial and error might be your best bet to figure that out. The other thing to do is leave more wood in the bottom (not like you would do for a bowl) to add weight and keep the center of gravity lower...

As for the finial thing, I'm not positive, but I don't think Timothy made this as a reverseable finial. From looking at it, it doesn't look like it would "fit" upside down...but I could be wrong. So, I think the little finial is for a ballast, and for a nice little surprise when you lift up the finial. Tim?

[Thom Sturgill]

I have to agree with most of the comments. The piece is nice and absolutely is a keeper.

One idea, take the piece, chuck and all, off the lathe and stand it up before you hollow. Cover the chuck if needed to get a proper view. Check for flats with a small ruler. If you are looking to see how well you fit the golden mean, look at height of the body vs width AND height of the shoulder break vs height of the body. then height of the body vs total height with planned finial. Remember that the mean can work either way, break at one third or two thirds, etc. And remember those are just 'natural' proportions that we expect to see, not some absolute formula of beauty.

I love the wood and you did it proud, a too shiny finish might well take away from the grain and you have a lovely presentation that looks like it wants to be handled.

[Timothy Mann]

First off, thank you all very much for the nice comments and the helpful suggestions.

@Tim - Nice job on slimming down the finial I very much like that. What software do you use to do that? I have not worked with someware that can do things like this before but would be interested in experimenting with it someday. I have been thinking about trying to draw out my ideas ahead of time. For me it is hard to draw stick figures that look like people but I will try this and see how it goes, thank you for the suggestion here.

@ Brian - The lower finial was made shorter and thinner on purpose so they are not interchangeable. I wanted to give people a small surprise if they were to take the lid off, and of course as Mike said it is also for balast as well. I have found on others I have turned with a small lid and tall upper finial it dosnt take much to get it to wobble off and as thin as they are they break fairly easy. The last reason I suppose is I just love attempting to turn small and delicate finials.


I think it was Mike and Steve above that mentioned "tucking" the bottom. I am not familiar with this term as it applys to turning. Are there any examples posted here that you could point me to so I can get a better understanding of what you mean?

Again thank you all for the comments and the suggestions. In the short time I have been here I have learned a lot not only from the previous posts I have read through but also from the input of the members, thank you.

[Thom Sturgill]

Timothy, your form appears to sink into the surface it sets on because the curve of the side is abruptly stopped at the base. Tucking would refer to changing the very bottom to a rounded edge which would create a shadow at the base and make the form appear lifted or floating. While this is all the rage, I prefer a small foot that is straight cut, the slope of the side providing the visual lift. If you had followed the suggestions to narrow the bottom and keep the curve moving then whether to tuck or not would be debatable. As is a tuck would almost certainly help your form. A more straight sided form needs the tuck to keep from looking sunk into the surface.

[Mike Cruz]

Timothy, Thom described that quite well. And jus to reiterate, there are TWO separate things we are talking about with the bottom of the form. First, continuing the curve. As I said earlier, and IIRC you are aware of, the curve you have going down the side does not continue...it straightens for the last inch or so (or that is, at least, the length it looks like). The second thing is the "tuck"...which Thom very clearly explained is basically rounding over the bottom edge so that the "lines" of the forms sides don't die into the table it sits on. Tucking keeps it from doing that.

Personally, of those two things, I think that the first one is more important, and the second one is a matter of taste. But please remember, that that is just an opinion, too...;) To me, good form is not necessarily following rules, but rather consistency and flow. A nice consistent flowing curve is easy on the eye. The trick comes in transitions. DD posted one of his amphoras sometime last year where he was trying to make one continuous curve. It proved, even for him, quite a task. Math plays a big part of it. And just to be clear, I'm not saying I could do that curve that DD did...probably not even close. He wasn't doing a simple curve...it was quite complex. And IIRC, he made a couple stabs at doing it.

And Timothy, what might help you with drawing out the forms is graph paper. You'll be able to measure out where your shoulder should be, how big/small the foot will be, and the same with the neck/opening and finial. Once you have it drawn out with measurements marked at key points, you can then transfer those to you blank. Also, you can lay the drawing on its side and have it next to you while you turn. It IS helpful.

[Tim Rinehart]

First off, thank you all very much for the nice comments and the helpful suggestions.

@Tim - Nice job on slimming down the finial I very much like that. What software do you use to do that? I have not worked with someware that can do things like this before but would be interested in experimenting with it someday. I have been thinking about trying to draw out my ideas ahead of time. For me it is hard to draw stick figures that look like people but I will try this and see how it goes, thank you for the suggestion here.

I think it was Mike and Steve above that mentioned "tucking" the bottom. I am not familiar with this term as it applys to turning. Are there any examples posted here that you could point me to so I can get a better understanding of what you mean?

Again thank you all for the comments and the suggestions. In the short time I have been here I have learned a lot not only from the previous posts I have read through but also from the input of the members, thank you.

Tim,
I must admit...I started out thinking I needed to use Photoshop to do this...but alas, I just realized its actually MUCH easier just using Microsoft Paintbrush...that simple little program that comes preloaded.
Open the image in Paintbrush, use the selector tool to draw a box around the finial, then copy and past that off to the side. While it's still "active" (in other words, don't click 'outside' the pasted finial), use the handles at the middle of the sides to pull it in or out, then drag it over and set on top of your existing finial. Quick and clean!

To find what I think is one of the best examples of good consistent flow for taller shapes like yours, look up work of Andy DiPietro. You'll see immediately what is being described as the tuck. The one caveat to creating this is that it typically makes the piece a bit more 'tippy', as the foot must get pretty small for these taller forms to pull off that tuck well. Tradeoffs and personal taste. Like Mike said...the most important thing is the continous curve. While still on the lathe, set a straightedge across all elements of the curve, rolling it back and forth with a light behind you. If you have a straight section, you'll be able to tell when a wider shadow is created.