I want your form critique - really

[Brian Kent]

Here are a couple of forms for chalices. I found a piece of sycamore firewood this morning with fewer than normal cracks, so I am experimenting with forms for communion chalices. Here are two and I am hoping to do a third today. I have no idea if this wood will hold water or juice (no wine - they're for Methodists ;)), so I am just trying out shapes.

So please - your comments and critiques. Both still have the bases on them to attach to the faceplate, so ignore that part.

[Greg Just]

Brian:

I like both shapes, but I prefer the one on the right due to the thinner stem.

[Michael Stafford]

I prefer the one on the left but would like for the stem to thinner. I think the curve from the goblet bowl to the base is more elegant and continuous. Both pieces would look better IMHO if the feet were thinner.

Pretty wood!

[Jerry Marcantel]

Brian, now that you've axed, I would not insult my fireplace with either of them. Hahahahaha. Gotcha!!!!!. I am kidding, but like I said you asked.... Seriously, I love the way you started the wall and contour?sp of the one on the right. Somewhere in the middle of the contour?sp that nice looking curve just becomes a curve. I also think the stem could have been about 1" longer. The left one would have looked better to me if the wall was straight like the one on the right.... Other than that, you're doing a good job learning. Don't you have a chuck???

I don't normally critique OPS, but after Roger started that earlier thread, I figured I'd better start doing my part. Maybe I'll start lurking again...... Jerry (in Tucson)

[Brian Kent]

Here's the third try from the same log. It started cracking in the cup so I stopped sanding, put on a coat of WOP, and that's it.

Yes, Jerry, I have a chuck, but I was not having much luck with it in longer pieces. The only thing I was thinking on this one was whether I could do a smaller foot and thinner stem while keeping it stable. That was no problem.

Oh, and Jerry, it's ok if you insult my fireplace. ;) And thank you. I definitely want critique and criticism and ideas and everything on these.

[Jerry Marcantel]

Brian, try this shape with a thinner and longer stem, and a more contoured and smaller od foot.253284.............. Jerry (in Tucson)

[David DeCristoforo]

The first one has a nice "flow". But I would try and bring the lower part of the cup in and make the stem about 1/2 it's current diameter. Then a bit more flair into the base and a bit thinner at the edge of the base.

[Dale Miner]

Here are a couple of forms for chalices. I found a piece of sycamore firewood this morning with fewer than normal cracks, so I am experimenting with forms for communion chalices. Here are two and I am hoping to do a third today. I have no idea if this wood will hold water or juice (no wine - they're for Methodists ;)), so I am just trying out shapes.

So please - your comments and critiques. Both still have the bases on them to attach to the faceplate, so ignore that part.

Brian,

Since these pieces are being designed with a specific use, and I am not familiar with the Methodist use of a challice, it makes it tough to know if the design is suitable for the use. Functional items need to fufill the fuction intended while at the same time have a pleasing eye appeal. The challices that I am familiar with are larger in diameter with a more bowl like vessel section, with a foot that is also larger in diameter relative to the overal height of the challice. Some or all of the following regarding funtion may not apply.

If the funtion involves dipping the communion bread in the chalice as is customary in some churces, then the taller narrow shape will have a difficult time passing that test. The shorter more open would be more satisfactory for that type of use. If the intended use is to hold the communion bread and those taking part in the meal reach into the challice or the minister reaches in and withdraws the meal, then neither of them have a shape conducive to that use. In that usage, a more typical challice shape would work better.

From a form standpoint, without regard to function, the shorter more open shape is more appealing. The slightly closing form at the rim keeps the flow of the piece from foot to rim. The curve from the stem to the rim is nearly continous. It appears as though there is a slight flat spot between the major diameter and the rim, although it could be the photo. As Mike mentioned, the base would look better if thinner, and the stem could also stand to be perhaps 5% to 10% thinner.

The taller form lacks definition between the components due to the diameter of the stem being too large in my opinion. It the curve of the goblet were slightly tighter below the major diameter of the goblet, and brought into a thinner stem slightly higher up, the shape would be improved. This would allow for a short section of the stem to have a nearly consistent diameter, defining it as a stem. The base on this piece has good presentation. There might be slightly too much slope to the base, but if the stem were thinner and the radius as the two come together tighter, the slope as is would look a bit flatter.

The tool work/sanding looks good on both pieces.

[Brian Kent]

Dale, just a quick response. The goblet is for holding the juice that you dip the bread into. It gives a wide range for design. It just needs to be wide enough to put the corner of a 1" cube of bread into.

Now I'll try to picture each of your observations.

[Bob Bergstrom]

Brian, I have seen wood cups that have been used for communion and they have been quite simple and without a lot of concern about form. I like the form on the left but have to agree that it needs to be larger, especially at the rim. Some older member who are losing there small motor skills or shake may have trouble dipping into a smaller cup. The other issue is sanitation. Now days people are really becoming sensitive about bacteria and salmonella problems. Just my thoughts. Thanks for sharing.

[Brian Kent]

Tonight at church I checked out our variety of communion cups - from long chalices to short wide forms. They were full enough that they didn't have to put fingers inside the rim to dip the bread. Today one boy looked up over the plate of bread and sneezed right into it. Luckily he was the second to last and there was another set of servers nearby.

On the sanitation issue, there is the real issue and the perceived issue. I believe that the real issue can be cared for with soap, water and dry since we only use them once per month. It would be like a wooden cutting board which can be quite safe. As for perceived cleanliness I wonder if a highly polished finish would communicate that.

And Jerry, I hope that is an onyx cup, because if it is wood, that is one deep finish.

[Jerry Marcantel]

And Jerry, I hope that is an onyx cup, because if it is wood, that is one deep finish.

Wow, Brian, can't pull any wool over your eyes. It is Onyx. Got a 6 pc set because it almost looks like wood grain... I like the shape of the cup, but like I said, the foot and stem need some work. I might try trimming one some day...... Jerry (in Tucson)

[Brian Kent]

Jerry, I do look forward to trying that bowl shape. Maybe this afternoon if there's no sports on TV.