Kane & Roach 16" Jointer

[Michael Mayo]

I have been watching this jointer on CL in my local area for several weeks. I emailed the owner and we have traded emails back and forth. I could not and was not going to pay the asking price for this jointer but I made the owner an offer that I could afford and felt was fair. I told her that she should hit me up if she didn't have any interest in the jointer and wanted to consider my offer. Well she contacted me yesterday and although she felt the jointer was worth more than I was offering she said she would accept my offer and wanted it out of her shop. The thoght of having a 16" jointer makes me silly with excitement bt this jointer looks to be a bit rough and I talked with her today about it on the phone and asked her about the motor which you can see on top of the machine in the pics. She said it was a 1 HP. single phase motor and that the PO used it with that motor. So what do you all think about value on this rusty crusty old piece of iron? Will a 1 HP motor be enough oomph to joint wood with this 16" monster or am I looking at having to get a more powerful motor? She has never used the jointer since she bought it over a year ago. I have no worries about having to restore it or replace parts etc. but having to get a more powerful motor would definitely be something that would have to be put on the back burner for a while. Would you pay a couple hundred dollars for this vintage behemoth given the info I currently have?

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[David Kumm]

Are you OK with Babbit bearings and do you know how to re pour them? Those in the know like them but I'm not one to ever go there. The motor should be 3-5 hp and the starter should match. Starters can be had used cheap though. I can't see the head very well but you want it round with traditional gibs and screws not broken. Some old jointers had square or worse yet clamshell heads. Avoid both. The guys who specialize in really old arn will know what to do but I'm not one of them. Dave

[Paul Incognito]

Good news and bad news:
Good news- for its age it's in pretty good shape.
Bad news- 1 hp is definitely not enough. 3 would be more like it.
Where's the guard?
Babbit bearings. While not a negative in and of themselves, they do require maintinence that ball bearings do not. If they're in good shape, keep them oiled and you're good to go. If they're in bad shape, repouring is probably going to be necessary.
Square cutter head. Probably the worst of the bad news. 1) You aren't going to find knives for this, you'll have to have them made. Mucho dinero. 2) From a safety standpoint, about the worst thing going for a jointer. Not so much for a planer, but for a jointer, especially one with no guard, I'd stay away.

If you're willing to invest in a new cutter head, which may necessitate a bearing conversion, this machine may be worth it if she's giving it away. Scrap value is probably a couple hundred, which is what it's worth in it's current state. YMMV.
Hope this helps, if this reply brings up questions, feel free to ask.
Paul

[Michael Mayo]

Well I was wondering what type of bearings it had. I am not familiar with babbit bearings but that has never stopped me before. I have been a professional mechanic for a long time and although that doesn't pay the bills anymore I have done just about any type of heavy duty mechanical repair there is. I also have an electrical training background so that part doesn't alarm me either. Getting the parts and having a manual is what concerns me the parts not as much as the lack of a manual for disassembly and adjustments. But I guess I will just find out when I go look at the machine.

[David Kumm]

Square cutterhead is a real deal breaker though. They should not be used. With good used jointers available in the 1500-3000 range you could get there with a head and bearing change but never have much resale value. Dave

[Mel Fulks]

Some of those older machines never had guards on them ,many are retrofits ,that's not hard to do. If the Babbitt is in good shape you won't live long enough to wear them out . Why assume they're worn out? I don't think the knives are a problem. Don't think that motor ever powered that machine. If the rust is not deep ,I think it is a good deal.

[Paul Incognito]

Go to the OWWM site. There's lot's of info on old machines there, including specifics on babbit bearings and square cutter heads.
I know that a 16" jointer on the cheap seems too good to be true, but without a new cutter head, this one is.
Also, any parts you need for this machine are probably going to have to be made.
Just to give you a frame of reference; I got a 20" jointer for a really good deal from a fellow SMC member. To date I have a little over $2,000 into it and still have a little way to go. I just made my first chips with it today. That's probably the direction you're going with this machine, a lot of little things that add up.

Hope this helps,.
Paul

[Michael Mayo]

Well that is not the kind of information I was hoping to hear but I do really appreciate the information as you all have probably saved me a ton of money and frustration. So I guess I will call her tomorrow and cancel the deal/trip. The square cutter head I was not aware of until Paul mentioned it and I took a better look at it in the pics. I have no issue with modifying and older machine with more modern equipment bt the cost to do that is very high and I don't have that kind of money. Too bad I was starting to get excited about the prospect of owning a 16" jointer for only $200. Oh well I will keep looking I guess.

[Sparky Paessler]

I have a 12" jointer from 1925 with Babbitt bearings. It does have a round head. I ran it for years with a cheap 3hp motor on it. kept burning up start caps as it was slow to spin up. finally burned up the start windings the other day. i replaced it with a lesson 5 hp motor. Found a great deal on one. PM me if you want info on it. I really love the long tables on mine. There are pictures posted here in my older posts of mine (no guard on it either).

[Andrew Hughes]

I sure like the foot print of that jointer.I bet my 8 take more space on the floor.

[Michael Mayo]

I have a 12" jointer from 1925 with Babbitt bearings. It does have a round head. I ran it for years with a cheap 3hp motor on it. kept burning up start caps as it was slow to spin up. finally burned up the start windings the other day. i replaced it with a lesson 5 hp motor. Found a great deal on one. PM me if you want info on it. I really love the long tables on mine. There are pictures posted here in my older posts of mine (no guard on it either).

Sparky,
The lack of a guard doesn't bother me as much as the fact it has a square cutter head and from the sounds of it getting new knives for it would be near impossible. The babbit bearings are another concern but the biggest concern is the fact that it only has a 1 hp. motor so that would mean that I would without a doubt have to buy a new motor for it at the very least which would run into the hundreds if not over a thousand dollars and the whole point of this was to get a jointer on the cheap. It looks like this one is not going to be on the cheap once all is said and done.

[Sparky Paessler]

Michael
The square cutter head would be a deal breaker for me also unless I was willing to replace it. I was lucky mine was a round one. Keep meaning to make a guard for mine! I usually run the fence over and only expose the amount of cutter I need.

[Mike Cutler]

Michael

Did she ever have it up and running in her shop with the one HP motor? I know the type of work she does, but can't see her using a 1hp. motor on a jointer this size.

BTW.
The person you're dealing with used to be one of my swim/triathlon partners. She's a very nice person, and talented woodworker.

[Paul Murphy]

Not trying to talk you into anything, but mentioning a possibility...
There are plenty of folks who bought Byrd replacement cutterheads for straight knife planers, and so there are plenty of straight knife cutterheads sitting unused and possibly available cheap. The right diameter cutterhead, 2 bearing blocks, pulleys and belts, motor and starter, and your time in converting. Perhaps not the bargain you envisioned, but a 16" jointer for less than $1000 is the possibility. That said, make sure the machine is otherwise sound.

[Jeff Duncan]

Here's my two cents FWIW, the motor is the least of your concerns. You can pick up old motors for cheap, and if your willing to go the three phase route even cheaper! Even new motors aren't that bad, I paid $350 for an off-the-shelf brand new motor when I had to replace the 5hp motor on my compressor a couple years back. It's all about the cutterhead and that may not be bad either. You say you've done some wrench turning in your day so you probably know a good local machinist? As mentioned by Paul, there are planer heads that come on the market occasionally that could be bought for short money and turned down to fit your machine. That is probably the most feasible way to get it up and safely running! Though you are going to have to invest some money and time....no getting around that part of it.

JeffD

[David Kumm]

I had forgotten to mention it earlier but when dealing with old used jointers you also need to check the tables for hollows in the middle. They were originally planed very flat- better than most new but can develop a low spot with years of use. If you have to re grind it is another expense. Others know more about converting heads but i think if you stay babbit you need to start with a wider head and turn it down- ie 24" turned down to accomodate the longer shafts and of course the diameter needs to stay the same. Converting to pillow blocks and ball bearings can cause additional issues as that usually raises the head so you need to then raise the tables. Helps to be a metal working guy for all that. Dave

[Rick Lizek]

For $200 it's a no brainer. You can get knives for a square head but you can get a new round head for a lot less and a motor is a minor issue.