Lasermax Alternateive (chinese supplier?)

[Eric Ucci]

I apologize if this question has been answered already. I know this issue comes up a lot but I couldn't find a direct answer.
We're looking for an alternative (by this I mean cheaper supplier) to the Romark Lasermax. At this time, we plan on using a large quantity of LM922-204 (around 100 sheets @ 2'x4'). The best pricing Ive been able to find is about $48/sheet ($12/sq ft.)
I'm not sure where to start, how to judge quality, what kind of minimum orders, etc. I am looking for the same "modified acrylic" that Romark uses. Also, what would Chinese suppliers call the "modified acrylic"?
If anyone could share their experience or insight with any Chinese suppliers I'd greatly appreciate it.


Thanks

[Tony Lenkic]

Eric,

Bellco Inc. has been advertizing some clearance plastics at reduced prices. Give Tina Kirk a call for update and availability.

Also you may check with suppliers on IPI plastic. It is great for lasering.

[Michael Hunter]

I have just come to the end of some white-over-black Chinese material.
It was less than 1/3 the price of Romark LM922, BUT....

* The surface finish had some blemishes (not visible until the protective film was off) which wasted some time and material.
* Fumes from the black core material really stuck to the white top after cutting - very difficult to clean off, needing serious rubbing.
* I believe the core material was ABS, rather than modified acrylic, although it handled much the same.

I have now moved onto a material sold by and branded as "Trotec".
Twice the price of the Chinese stuff, but still significantly cheaper than Romark.
Very good quality, engraves exceptionally well and is easy to clean after cutting (even easier than Romark).
I can find the order code for this if anyone is interested.

[Scott Shepherd]

At this time, we plan on using a large quantity of LM922-204 (around 100 sheets @ 2'x4'). The best pricing Ive been able to find is about $48/sheet ($12/sq ft.)


Just for the record, a 2' x 4' piece is 8 sq. feet, and $48 per sheet is $6 per square foot, not $12 per square foot as mentioned.

IPI and Rowmark are the same company now.

There was a company called Scott that did some lower end stuff, if I recall correctly. Never used it, but I think it's available at either JDS or Johnson (or both).

[Joe Hillmann]

Is it really worth buying a cheaper product. I know the first time I bought rowmark I was very concerned by the high cost.

However the last stuff I bought was $66 per sheet and for small labels made out of it I charge $1.10 per square inch, so I end up selling that sheet for close to $1000.

With that high of a profit margin I don't know if it is worth trying to find a Chinese supplier. When you buy rowmark you can buy as little as 1/4 sheet and if the product has imperfections the company you got it from will make it right. I assume when you order from China the minimum is much higher and the quality is lower.

Of course for your business getting your supplies from China may make much more sense than it does for me.

[Rodne Gold]

MOQ ex china will be at least 250-500 sheets , tho you can mix and match colours in all likelyhood. (we can)
Anything less would , imo , be freight prohibitive.
ABS based for rotary engraving is round $6 a sheet , 1220 x 610mm, 2'x4', modified acrylic for lasering is round $8 per sheet. Excluding freight and duties. You can get a UV coating applied for an extra $ per sheet . I have used over 2000 sheets in around 2 years and the savings are very significant as Rowmark is about $50 more per sheet here. The quality is good , no dimples , inclusions etc, we have had 2 or 3 sheets that have had some surface blemishes , minor tho. Lasers and cuts as good as anything else we have used. Some nice finishes that I haven't seen elsewhere are available. 70% of my imports are gold and silver in various finishes and are in 2 thicknesses , 0.8mm and 1.5mm (1/32 and 1/16)

[Michael Hunter]

The quality is good , no dimples , inclusions etc, we have had 2 or 3 sheets that have had some surface blemishes , minor tho. Lasers and cuts as good as anything else we have used.

I'm sure that the Chinese do make good stuff and it is fine if you can go and check for yourself.

If you can't go, then you are stuck with a description if direct importing, or whatever the local importer has on the shelf and NO, you can't peel off the protective film to check before buying!

The sheets I had had a fancy hologram sticker which did suggest "quality" (though it was in Chinese and might have said "don't buy this stuff" for all I know).
Of four sheets, each one had several significant blemishes and many more smaller "just about get away with" ones.
I used the material to make switch panels and the customer is not super-critical, but it does dent my pride to have to send out imperfect work.

[Wes Mitchell]

Scott-ply is still around, but it isn't laserable. You are correct though - it is less expensive. We sell 21"x50" sheets for about 50% less than a Rowmark laserable sheet.

Eric, you could try IPI's Laserable II line (their regular laserable line is about the same as Rowmark.) Cost on LZ-2902 is around $38/sht at your quantity.

[Joe Pelonio]

I did some installations for a guy that used Chinese material and it was a mess. I took picture of each sign with blemishes to make sure I was not held responsible for messing them up while installing. To me it's not worth the risk to save a few bucks. I got burned once too by buying Acrylic made in Indonesia, cheaper but both the engraving and cutting were disappointing. If you want to save money look for deals on name brands, sometimes E-Bay will have over stock sales. I have also gotten material from freight liquidators and even shops going out of business, including one where the landlord called trying to sell material left by a tenant that skipped out overnight.

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott-ply is still around, but it isn't laserable.

Correction, I thought it was Scott, but I just pulled my swatch kit from the company I was thinking about and it wasn't Scott. It's southeastplastics dot com. Product would be LAZ-0001 (black/white). I think they make it there, so you might be dealing directly with the manufacturer. I talked to the guy once a couple years ago and got the swatch kit, but I've never tried the material.

[Mohammed Issa]

MOQ ex china will be at least 250-500 sheets , tho you can mix and match colours in all likelyhood.

im actually contacting a company from china now, that is offering me to take my required MOQ as long as its in stock (even if i wanted 1 sheet).
if its not in stock, the MOQ is 100 sheets. the price im getting is $6.5 FOB.

[Rodne Gold]

Be careful buying in china , a lot of chinese companys think price is the be all and end all and are paranoid that their prices are too high. Mnfgring and products ex china are made to price points. For eg , I can save 10% on my acrylic stock by using a "B" grade which has a few blemishes , inclusions, has more thickness variations etc. Same with my trophy stock , for a little cheaper I can get quality that is FAR worse than the money I would save.
Often you will be quoted on the "cheapest" and not the best , due to this paranoia over price.
I think you might not be getting laserable material or perhaps B stock at $6.50 fob , that is a VERY cheap price for laserable engraving sheet , especially if the MOQ's are so low...maybe ask for samples via dhl...

One of my prime reasons for importing , apart from price , is that my suppliers here were always out of stock , even knowing the qtys we were buying..their service also left a lot to be desired
I have never looked back. We dropped our purchases from the local suppliers from round $8000 a month to $800 a month , we were one of the biggest "single" buyers from them , they have yet to call me to ask why my purchases had dropped to that extent. If one of my customers had to drop purchases to 10% of what they were before , I would be on the phone chop chop

[Mohammed Issa]

well, i already did my homework with this company.

when my machine was in production, i contacted around 10 companies around china, got them to send me samples to the location of the machine manufacturer, and got all the samples shipped with the machine. saving well over $700. each sample shipped to canada would easily cost me $70. this way, the total weight of 5kg didnt affect the 150kg crate that was shipped. i always take the opportunity of shipping small samples with current orders. most suppliers dont mind helping out by receiving the samples and including them with the package (sometimes they add a little shipping charge, but is still a lot less than shipping each sample separately).

i have quite a bit of experience with china/chinese product manufacturers/machine manufacturers in the past years. i have already visited china 3 times, around 1 month each stay. i have learned A LOT. and i cannot say my learning curve is over. in fact, i enjoy taking the 'risk'. there is always that adrenaline rush i get from buying from china. some might argue its not worth the headache, i would say an iphone is also made in china (good quality).

[Gary Hair]

Is it really worth buying a cheaper product...
However the last stuff I bought was $66 per sheet and for small labels made out of it I charge $1.10 per square inch, so I end up selling that sheet for close to $1000.

Your point is very valid. What's the use in saving $40 on a job that nets you $1,000? The percentage increase in profit is so small that it's not even worth bothering about. Of course, I have the same argument for Cermark and the people trying to find a "cheaper" alternative. If I spent the time and money trying to replace Cermark I would be thousands of dollars behind where I am now. A $125 bottle of Cermark nets me something like $8,000-$10,000, and I KNOW it works. There is an old saying about being penny wise and pound foolish - I think it fits these situations perfectly.

[Rodne Gold]

Mohammed Let us know how the stuff works out when it arrives , its a very good price .. I was in china multiple times and did my homework as well , couldn't get that priced stuff..
Gary Not everyone can command 2000% to 5000% profit margins on consumables , if you work on lesser margins of 100-250% the savings are substantial.

[Dan Hintz]

Of course, I have the same argument for Cermark and the people trying to find a "cheaper" alternative. If I spent the time and money trying to replace Cermark I would be thousands of dollars behind where I am now.
And some of us just do it for the science and fun...

[Eric Ucci]

Thank you to all that have commented! I have also had a couple PMs that will be very helpful. At 80% savings, I think I'd be a fool not to make a go of it.
Tony, I will definitely Call Tina at Bellco and see what they've got.
Scott, yes it would appear that my math skills are sometimes lacking :P
For those opposed to "inferior" Chinese materials, I have to wonder. Romark is a value added product. My understanding is that they don't manufacture raw material, they buy sheet goods, laminate, and re-sell. Are they purchasing their raw material from domestic sources? My guess is that they are buying from Chinese suppliers just like the rest of the world. In today's global market I think the domestic vs Asian paradigm is pretty much played out so that's not much of an issue for me anyway.
Buying 500 sheets at $9 per for modified acrylic is pretty tough to turn my nose up at.
I will also try to get as many samples as possible before committing to anything.

Thank again to everyone who posted!
I'll be sure to post back with the ultimate quality that I find.


thanks
Eric