fixing the chatter in my filletster plane

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

So last time I was using my kind of junky Chapin Union Factory wooden fillester plane, there was some chatter. Not enough to be a huge problem, and if it was a show surface, I suppose I could clean it up with a rabbet plane, but it was a little frustrating.

I don't remember ever having this chatter problem with it before. Looking back, the only thing that really changed was that I reground the blade so it matches the angle of the sole better so I get a more accurate square cut. It was off just enough before, and in the right way that I could only adjust to get one side of the rabbet to be square, and couldn't really get either side square and still have the nicker in line with the cutter. That's all fixed now. But I don't think I ground enough off the blade to really effect the bedding of the iron.

I was also taking what was a thicker cut than the last time I used it, which would make things more noticeable, but I've certainly taken cuts this thick before without as much chatter.

So I took the blade out, thinking maybe there was something caught under it, and when I took a look at things, I think I realized what's happened - the boxing and the body seem to have moved differently. The boxing still seems secure, but where the boxing forms part of the bed, it appears slightly recessed from the rest of surface of the bed. Of course, this corner is where most of the cutting occurs on the size of rabbets I normally make. So the iron isn't quite supported there as it could be, and I'm guessing that's the problem. And of course, with the shape of a wooden fillester iron, it's sort of hanging out there on it's own anyway so it could probably use support the most.

From the oil marks on the bed, it appears there may be a little hump in the center (both front and back and up and down) of the bed, I'll have to do a better job checking - if that's the case, that may fix things. But it looks like that recessed boxing may be the issue.

So I guess I'm thinking of shimming just that area carefully with some tape or something cut to the shape of the boxing in that recess; figuring that will tell me if that's the issue, although I doubt it's a long term fix. Is that a decent idea?

Assuming I need to re-shape the bed, I guess this could be the kicker to pick up those floats I've been thinking of getting. Regardless of the tools, I figure I can work through the escapement to get the bed co-planar again, but do you think I'd also need to approach the whole mortise for the neck of the iron as well? How would one suggest working in this angled mortise? (remember, a fillester plane's iron is skewed)

I'm imagining things moved even though they haven't really moved in the years since I got the plane because I started storing it in my recently completed tool cabinet. I figure the environment in there is drier than my house because of the goldenrod heater. Should I make a point of keeping the plane outside of the cabinet, away from that heater? The plane isn't incredibly close to the heater, rather in a little cubby below the main cavities where the heater is.

[Zach Dillinger]

So last time I was using my kind of junky Chapin Union Factory wooden fillester plane, there was some chatter. Not enough to be a huge problem, and if it was a show surface, I suppose I could clean it up with a rabbet plane, but it was a little frustrating.

I don't remember ever having this chatter problem with it before. Looking back, the only thing that really changed was that I reground the blade so it matches the angle of the sole better so I get a more accurate square cut. It was off just enough before, and in the right way that I could only adjust to get one side of the rabbet to be square, and couldn't really get either side square and still have the nicker in line with the cutter. That's all fixed now. But I don't think I ground enough off the blade to really effect the bedding of the iron.

I was also taking what was a thicker cut than the last time I used it, which would make things more noticeable, but I've certainly taken cuts this thick before without as much chatter.

So I took the blade out, thinking maybe there was something caught under it, and when I took a look at things, I think I realized what's happened - the boxing and the body seem to have moved differently. The boxing still seems secure, but where the boxing forms part of the bed, it appears slightly recessed from the rest of surface of the bed. Of course, this corner is where most of the cutting occurs on the size of rabbets I normally make. So the iron isn't quite supported there as it could be, and I'm guessing that's the problem. And of course, with the shape of a wooden fillester iron, it's sort of hanging out there on it's own anyway so it could probably use support the most.

From the oil marks on the bed, it appears there may be a little hump in the center (both front and back and up and down) of the bed, I'll have to do a better job checking - if that's the case, that may fix things. But it looks like that recessed boxing may be the issue.

So I guess I'm thinking of shimming just that area carefully with some tape or something cut to the shape of the boxing in that recess; figuring that will tell me if that's the issue, although I doubt it's a long term fix. Is that a decent idea?

Assuming I need to re-shape the bed, I guess this could be the kicker to pick up those floats I've been thinking of getting. Regardless of the tools, I figure I can work through the escapement to get the bed co-planar again, but do you think I'd also need to approach the whole mortise for the neck of the iron as well? How would one suggest working in this angled mortise? (remember, a fillester plane's iron is skewed)

I'm imagining things moved even though they haven't really moved in the years since I got the plane because I started storing it in my recently completed tool cabinet. I figure the environment in there is drier than my house because of the goldenrod heater. Should I make a point of keeping the plane outside of the cabinet, away from that heater? The plane isn't incredibly close to the heater, rather in a little cubby below the main cavities where the heater is.

So, if I understand correctly, the boxing shrunk and pulled back from the bed. But the boxing is still solidly glued in to the body of the plane. Is that right?

If so, you can dissolve the hide glue that holds the boxing and reseat it in the proper position. This way you don't have to alter the bed, doing so will cause you all sorts of problems with wedge fitment, etc. How elaborate is the dovetailing that holds the boxing in place? Being a Chapin, I'm sure it isn't terribly elaborate, which would make it easy to get it apart.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I'm not sure I get the image of the boxing clearly, but for starters I would check the blade bedding like ttlhis:

1. hold the blades top (the part that contacts the bed dhu:)) over a candle flame and move it around until it has an even black layer of.. mmm candle tar...?
2. put the blade in cutting position gently, trying not to touch the bed until it's in position, and tap the wedge in place
3. tap the blade a little forward and then remove the wedge and blade carfuly, trying not the touch the bed.
4. look at the bed, is there good cantact? or spotty?
I like to use a scraping chisel to remove the high spots. I set the candle on a plywood stand using it's own wax, and tell myself that by the time
the candle is done (I use a thin one) I will have the blade contacting very well - but that's just to keep me from feeling in a hury.

if that dosen't fix it... maybe the wedge dosen't make good cantact... ? or maybe I'm missing the boxing thing.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Thanks for the pointers, guys.

Matthew's got a good point - I really need to check the bedding before I actually *do* anything. I was just on the forum and the thought sprung to mind so I started a thread while I was thinking of it. No point trying to change anything without knowing what needs to be changed. I certainly would have done this step before removing any wood, but I didn't say so, and Matthews good for pointing that out!

Also, I was entirely wrong about this being the plane with a slight hump in the bed, I was thinking of a rabbet plane I had picked up.

Anyway, a pictures worth a thousand words, not that I've ever had a problem being verbose (in writing at least) so here's some pictures.


For reference, where the plane is stored in the cabinet relative to the heater - the filletster plane is in one of the "cubbies" on the left hand side (just above the drawers) it's second from the left. The heater is the golden rod you can just make out along the back of the cabinet, behind the red thing (a lead pointer) and the handsaws.

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How elaborate is the dovetailing that holds the boxing in place? Being a Chapin, I'm sure it isn't terribly elaborate, which would make it easy to get it apart.

Here's a shot of the rear of the plane, showing the boxing profile. Not too crazy.

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I though the boxing was firmly attached, and seems to be pretty much everywhere, but I did notice this crack forming along the glue line of the sole, which slipped my attention before. This picture is the sole of the plane. You can just make out a little split opening between the boxing and the body just behind the mouth. I can press here with hand pressure enough to tell that I could probably close it up with a clamp if that was advisable. No where else (at least along the rear boxing, I didn't even think to look at the front) does it seem loose at all.

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Interestingly enough, however, the rear end of the plane shows the same boxing shrinking below co-planar that the bed end does. More pronounced here:

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And a couple of shots of the mouth. I didn't dig out my feeler gauges, but I can take a piece of playing card and get it just under the iron in this corner with the boxing, no where else. I have a thin feeling a feeler gauge could get a little further in there. Is this enough to be an issue? I don't know.

It's not as pronounced a shrinkage as I though it was before, but I think it's evident in these photos.

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I'll try and post more when I have a better idea what sooting the iron tells me, but that will have to wait, I have no idea where the candles are here. I'm not entirely convinced this is the issue, looking at it again now. I really didn't investigate closely before.

Could that slightly loose piece of boxing be the issue? It only appears to be loose in the direction parallel to the planes sole.

I need to finish making drawers for the other side of the cabinet. Pieces all sized and tails all cut. Back to work. Hopefully these five go quicker!

[Matthew N. Masail]

First off - nice cabinet!!

Thanks for bringing my attenting to the term - sooting. I thought you probebly know what to do but the origenal post had me thinking that you might not be into
tool building\rehabbing so much, I guess I could have just said "the candle methoud", sorry about that.

I don't know if the boxing is the only problem, but it looks like it dosen't bed where it needs it the most. logic and limited experiance tells me that when it comes to iron bedding, if it's not touching - then it's not touching! be it
a playing card gap or a whole milimeter. so soot it :) lol I guess if it's also not bedding well around the boxing - it could be enough to fix the bedding up to there. depending
on how thick the iron is? in my experiments irons less than 3mm thick needed to bed well and be supported quite close to the edge in order to work smoothly.

[Matthew N. Masail]

just took a closer look - the black marks are most likely where it was beeding... if the boxwood moved, I think that could be it. maybe try a shime to test.

I wonder if you could really heat the glue and tap it back into place...

[Jim Koepke]

This is just one of my reasons for keeping old business cards around. Often a box of them can be had for free when someone is promoted or a business moves.

They make great shims for this kind of thing. Cut a piece of card paper or two as needed and set it under the blade to see if it cures your chatter.

jtk

[Jeff Heath]

I had a similar problem (actually, the same.....chattering) with a filletster plane I purchased on the bay years ago. Larry Williams helped me sort out the problem, which was in the bedding of the iron. Using any method you wish ( I just use a dry eraser chalk) check your bedding first. Chances are, that's the culprit. Once I improved the bedding of the iron on my plane, the wedge fit better, and plane worked beautifully.

Jeff

[Zach Dillinger]

One other idea. Depending on how far back the boxing has shrunk from the bed, you may be able to make the bed itself hollow in the middle so that it actually only touches at the boxing and at the top of the mortise. This will put the blade into tension against those two points and will almost certainly cure the problem without removing the boxing. If you only have to remove a small amount (depends on how far back the boxing is from the bed plane), you may not even have to adjust the wedge.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

First off - nice cabinet!!

Thanks! It's coming along . . .


Thanks for bringing my attenting to the term - sooting.

Well, I'm not sure "sooting" is an actual term, but it made sense and made it one word . . .

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

The curiosity is in that "it didn't before, it does now" thing . . .

I'll report more when I get a chance to analyze the problem better, but wanted to take the chance to thank everyone.

It's certainly not a *huge* problem, particularly if I clean up with a finer plane afterwards.

The boxing appears it's maybe shrunk back about a smidge less than a playing cards thickness.

It occurs to me that I'm apt to have a hard time marking the bed and telling where the iron is bedding given the black smudges and whatnot already on the bed, but I worry about trying to clean that and changing things. Any ideas around this? Something coloured that would work well?


Also, Matthew brought up the wedge earlier - the top of the iron is grimy enough it's left marks:

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Seems good enough - not great contact along the blind side, but good contact all the way down the escapement side and down to the tip.

[Matthew N. Masail]

maybe try white chalk instead of a candle. you could also use it to see if the wedge presses the blade right at the cutting edge.

[David Weaver]

You can use a dry erase marker, or oil.

And you can take a blunt chisel or hone the front edge of a mill fill and scrape off the black that is there. That's what I'd do first. It won't go very deep, and likely will come off without having to lift much wood off the bed.

[Jim Koepke]

The curiosity is in that "it didn't before, it does now" thing . . .

This could be due to the blade cutting properly across its full width after you corrected the blade to match the sole.

Quite often when one corrects a flaw it will make another flaw become evident. With care and time you will find and fix the flaws with this plane and have a tool you will not want to let out of your shop.

jtk