Does LV low angle smoother work well for shooting miters?

[James Scheffler]

I've tried to use my Type 11 No. 6 on a shooting board & ended up just getting frustrated with it. Although I love this plane for everything else a No. 6 is generally used for, but I'm just not getting it to work well on a shooting board.

Since you can't have too many tools anyway, one way to solve this dilemma is to buy a new plane! :) After looking over the low-angle options, I decided that the LV low angle smoother (the one with the 2-inch blade and fully machined sides) might be the best. I've heard that using a heavier plane is often an advantage for shooting miters, so I'm wondering if this one is a little light to be ideal for this purpose.

I think I would prefer the LAS to the low angle jack plane because it would get some use as a smoother with a higher-angle blade (for occasions when trickier grain defeats my No. 4). I already have two No. 5's that don't get a lot of use, so I think the LAJ would get a lot of use either except for miters.

Any thoughts on which way I should go? I can't justify getting more than one....

Jim

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

No direct experience with the plane in question, a couple of things that come to mind :

Heft is nice for shooting, but for me at least, the weight helps the most with longer pieces, those ones where the length just a little shorter than I where I would switch to working the end grain upright in the leg vise. Smaller pieces, the weight isn't as much as a factor. Lee Valley lists the weight of the plane in question at just over 3 1/2 pounds; so weigh some planes you've got, and get an idea of what matters to you weight wise.

But most of all, what are the problems you're having with the current plane you're using? In my shooting experience, the biggest factor in satisfactory results is sharp over low angle. I use a low angle plane for my shooting (a LN jack) now, but the effective angle is probably approaching if not the same or more as a bevel-up blade at this point, (last time I sharpened it with a jig it was 30 degrees, I believe, and I've been freehanding it for quite a while now) I've gotten perfectly fine results with old Stanley planes.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi James

Is your priority shooting mitres or smoothing?

The LAS is an excellent smoother and excels in high angle mode. It also works very well on a shooting board. I have no reservations in recommending its use in these areas.

However I would echo the advice of another who believes that mitres are another matter altogether, and that the best tool for accurate mitres is a guillotine cutter.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrae Covington]

I've tried to use my Type 11 No. 6 on a shooting board & ended up just getting frustrated with it. Although I love this plane for everything else a No. 6 is generally used for, but I'm just not getting it to work well on a shooting board.

Since you can't have too many tools anyway, one way to solve this dilemma is to buy a new plane! :) After looking over the low-angle options, I decided that the LV low angle smoother (the one with the 2-inch blade and fully machined sides) might be the best. I've heard that using a heavier plane is often an advantage for shooting miters, so I'm wondering if this one is a little light to be ideal for this purpose.

I think I would prefer the LAS to the low angle jack plane because it would get some use as a smoother with a higher-angle blade (for occasions when trickier grain defeats my No. 4). I already have two No. 5's that don't get a lot of use, so I think the LAJ would get a lot of use either except for miters.

Any thoughts on which way I should go? I can't justify getting more than one....

Jim

In my experience, it often lacks the mass necessary to follow through on a full end grain slice on wider or longer pieces. Works great for small stuff, and I make it work well enough for the larger stuff, but the process changes to more of a series of short stabs rather than a smooth glide. It only weighs about 3.5 lbs, vs. 7 or 8 for your #6. If you're only mitering picture frames or small trim, it would probably work fine. I'm happy with the plane as a smoother and small shooter.

[James Scheffler]

In my experience, it often lacks the mass necessary to follow through on a full end grain slice on wider or longer pieces. Works great for small stuff, and I make it work well enough for the larger stuff, but the process changes to more of a series of short stabs rather than a smooth glide. It only weighs about 3.5 lbs, vs. 7 or 8 for your #6. If you're only mitering picture frames or small trim, it would probably work fine. I'm happy with the plane as a smoother and small shooter.

Thanks to all of you for the replies. Andrae - This is for smaller work. I mostly envision this for picture frames and small trim.

Derek - Shooting miters is what is driving my desire for this or a similar plane (low angle and accurately machined sides), but I think it will get used for smoothing regularly.

Joshua - I can get blades pretty sharp. Sharper always helps, but I don't think that's the real issue. I have been able to use the No. 6 quite successfully for a pine test frame I made. The problem came when I tried making the "real" frame, which is cherry and curly maple. Sometimes the miters would plane glassy smooth, but other times it would somehow "catch" and chatter, messing things up. The sides are fairly flat and straight, but are not 90 deg to the sole. I can make it work fine by using the lateral adjustment, but I always have to make multiple test cuts on a scrap piece, which I find to be tedious. I think if the sides were accurately machined, I could just make sure the blade was projecting evenly, and get close on the first try.

I could definitely be having a technique problem with the No. 6, and perhaps it could be a little better tuned. However, I finally got a low-angle block plane after only having 45-deg planes, and that sort of opened my eyes to what a difference that can make to working end grain. I know lots of people use bevel down bench planes for miters, but I'm not feeling stoked up to try it again.

Jim

[Jim Koepke]

Most often my favored plane for shooting used to be the #6. My problem is with an old shoulder injury that causes problems with just about everything that uses my shoulder to get done.

A low angle Jack was purchased to ease my shoulder pain. The #6 or a #8 still gets used on items too wide for the LN #62.

Your chatter may be due to taking too deep of a cut or the blade not seating fully on the frog. For shooting my planes are usually set to take the lightest cut that still produces a thin shaving instead of dust.

That said, another one of my planes that gets used for shooting at times is a low angle block plane. It is not for thick stock, but works for many of the small jobs. The LAJ is so effective that the block plane is not used a lot.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Sorry, I totally missed the "miters" part of the thread title.

On the subject of getting the lateral adjusted right for a plane without square sides, two things come to mind - one, a perfectly square setup block to register the blade against before starting shooting, (which may likely prove more difficult to do in process than in theory) or two, shimming chute part of the board or the edge of the plane with something wear resistant (maybe some UHMW since it's slick, too) so that when using the same plane, setting the blade for equal projection gets you close to square. I suppose you could shim the non working end of the workpiece, but that seems more finicky.

I certainly didn't mean to impugn on your sharpening skills, by the way; was just mentioning it.

I had issues with chattering shooting using an old Bailey-style plane, and it was because adjusting the blade for square shooting, particularly on slightly thicker stock, made for enough projection on one side that the blade wasn't well supported along it's length. It wasn't as much of an issue using the thing upright. Adjusting the frog back so the blade was supported by the main casting as well as the frog helped clear it up. I think mouth adjustment of bevel up planes (or the Veritas sliding-frog design of bevel down planes) makes shooting here easier - regardless of setting the blade is apt to be fully supported to the end of the casting - not that you need a tight mouth for shooting, but if you're going to keep a plane set up for a finer cut anyway, it's nice, and when working end grain off the shooting board, particularly for chamfering, a small mouth helps keep the mouth from catching on a corner.

In the end, I ended doing just what your thinking of, getting a new plane for shooting. I went with the jack size, because it ended up having the most other uses in my work.

[Chris Griggs]

Unless you are regularly trying to shoot 8-10" wide pieces of hardwood I don't think the weight or smaller size will be a problem. I went with the jack because I was buying with nearly the sole purpose of being a shooting plane. The nice thing about the BU planes is because they are pretty easy to grip you can put some real force behind the cut even if you don't have a ton of weight. I'VE NEVER USED THE LA SMOOTHER, BUT, before I had my LA jack, I would often use my LV LABP for shooting (if my previous main shooter, a no. 6, was being used for something else at the moment). I've shot some surprisingly wide boards with the LA block just because its so easy to grip, and with that in mind, I really have no doubt that the LA smoother will make and excellent shooting plane. Wide, thick, hardwood boards, that it might not be hefty enough to handle are often better squared up clamped upright in a vise anyway, regardless of the weight of your shooter.

I'd say get the plane that appeals to your overall needs the most. Based on what you describe, I bet the LA smoother will work for you just fine. And remember, if you buy it and after handling it decide you want something bigger, LV will be happy take it back no questions asked.

[Derek Cohen]

If you insist on using a plane to shoot mitres - and I do so as well, but would get a mitre trimmer if one was available in my neck of the woods - then it is essential to use a non-slip on the face of the shooting board fence to prevent any movement. Movement is always an issue with work pieces that are not square to a plane. Any movement in the work piece will show up as a gap.

Sandpaper is one method. Sprinkling castor sugar or very fine salt over a varnished or epoxied surface is preferred.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Scheffler]

Thanks everyone! I think the plane is a good choice. Now I have to convince the dollars to come out of my bank account. (I'm kind of cheap but this is probably worth it :)).