Lost again in the saw department- What different size Table Saws are best suited for?

[Charlie Watson]

As some of you know I'm outfitting my shop and spending hours looking at and debating the merits of various brands and models of table saws. As I was looking at the 4 sizes of saws in the Hammer line, the 31x31, the 31x48, the 48x48, and the 79x48

http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/products/table-saws.html,

I started wondering what type of project would each of these saws be best at?. As one who is focused on expanding my skills in building boxes and furniture, is the big saw just to much of a luxury? or worse yet, will I outgrow the small saw as my skills improve? With a $2000 price difference between the smallest and largest capacities, it's a very important question. I've been asking myself which of these saws is in the sweet spot and I haven't figured it out yet. Anybody willing to help me bring some clarity to this I would very much appreciate it.

For what it's worth, here is the direction I'm going with other equipment:

MM16 Band Saw
Hammer A3-31 jointer/planer
Delta 18-900L Drill Press

Thanks guy's,

Charlie

[Hank Hill]

So the 31x31 model is obviously a great value for what it is in regards to the lower end sliding table saws. If you use a track saw for breaking down sheet goods, there's still really not anything you couldn't do with the 31x31 model. However, you need to note that they also leave a lot of features off the saw besides just the table size on the price differences. Most people agree your slider can never really be too big. Also keep in mind that reselling a small slider might be somewhat difficult.

I did some pretty extensive research between Grizzly, Hammer, Mini-Max, and Felder sliders in the past month that I'm still putting together for others to use as a reference but feel free to PM me if you want some more details that don't get answered by the general population. As a reference, I started off looking at a 5' slider and ended up with a 10.5' slider before my shopping spree was over. Go figure.

[johnny means]

A friend of mine bought a 48" Felder. Really nice saw. He often expresses regret about not getting the 8" table. IMO, none of the sizes you listed are serious machines except for the 79". Think about it, is a 6' panel really that rare. Sides for a pantry or wardrobe, table tops, counters, headboards, entry doors. All of these will require at least a 79' machine. I recently sold an i
older 10' slider in order to make room for a newer saw. My plan was to make due with a little 6' foot Hammer that I had lying around. Well turns out my tracksaw has become my goto saw because the Hammer is just too darn small.

[Charlie Watson]

Good point Johnny, I should also point out I have a Festool TS-55 tracksaw

[Jamie Buxton]

I don't understand why some folks like sliders so much. If you're building furniture, the parts sizes really want a big slider, as johnny says. A big slider has a very big footprint. For that big footprint, you could get a CNC router, which is a faster way of processing large amounts of big panels. Me, I wouldn't want to dedicate the space to either a big slider or a big CNC router. A track saw plus a standard table saw (like a Sawstop or a Unisaw) does the job, eat a whole lot less space, and cost less too.

[Jeff Duncan]

Unfortunately your question is probably not going to be really answered here, at least not in a way that you can be sure of. What I mean by that is the reason they offer so many different size saws is b/c different guys have different needs. Only you can ultimately decide what suits the work you do. When I upgraded to a 12" saw there was a large contingent of guys telling me my 10" was just fine for what I wanted to do. There was another that said I should go bigger than what I wanted. And of course a third group that thought the size I was looking at was right. In the end I bought what became available to me, (a 12"), and am generally happy with it. In the future given the space I'd probably even go for a bigger saw as a secondary, but as is can't fit it. All this rambling to say only you can truly decide which saw is going to be the best choice for the work you want to do. And the only way to learn that is by getting 'a' saw and using it for a while.

Of course on the other hand any of the saws your looking at will likely get the job done so it's not like your going to have something completely unworkable either;)

Orrrrr, if your going to do mostly furniture as you say, you can find a nice old Oliver saw with dual arbors that's in good shape and have a saw that will be a joy to use for the rest of your life:D

good luck,
jeffD

[Erik Loza]

...Well turns out my tracksaw has become my goto saw because the Hammer is just too darn small.

This is a very germane point ^^^^.

IMHO, if all you are doing is solid wood and furniture, and never do sheet goods, you're wasting your money on a sliding table saw. That's not say you might not just want a slider because you lik the brand/image/whatever but you don't need a slider for doing that. In fact, you are better served by spending that money on as big a bandsaw as you can afford/have room for. A little 36" slider is not going to help you rip a long timber any better than a standard cabinet saw will, whereas a bandsaw will it better than either.

Just my 2-cents and best of luck in your search.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Brian Kincaid]

Here are some interesting personal observiations from the past couple of years:

Crosscut hardwood to rough dimensions to get the most yield out of my jointing/planing
Furniture seldom requires hardwood cuts over 60" (bed rails, dining table, maybe a TALL bookcase are the only projects I can pull off the top of my head)
BB ply is 60"
4x8" crosscut is 48"
You want to clear the blade after the cut, so it looks like 78" is a good number for a sliding table saw.

I have 8ft+ tracksaw rails to straightline and rip long pieces. They collect dust most of the time. I have a cutting table to square/rip pieces shorter than 65" (I think that's the capacity) that I use for almost every project.

I think long 8'+ sliders are for folks who regularly rip 8' sheets or want to straight-line rip hardwood without a jig. I don't think there are tasks that require the capacity otherwise.

As far as blade capacity very few folks need more than 2" depth of cut for any project. 95% of my work is less than 1.5", even.

You have a quality bandsaw picked out. Have you considered setting up your tracksaw for repeatable cuts and joinery, then just dropping the table saw paradigm entirely? That's what I did.

-Brian

[Hank Hill]

IMHO, if all you are doing is solid wood and furniture, and never do sheet goods, you're wasting your money on a sliding table saw. That's not say you might not just want a slider because you lik the brand/image/whatever but you don't need a slider for doing that. In fact, you are better served by spending that money on as big a bandsaw as you can afford/have room for. A little 36" slider is not going to help you rip a long timber any better than a standard cabinet saw will, whereas a bandsaw will it better than either.
I'm not sure I completely agree. Depending on what you do, a large slider can replace the need for a large joiner that you'd need if you plan to do lots of ripping on a bandsaw. I've yet to see a bandsaw make a glue ready joint but I've seen sliders do it with ease. Also, a bandsaw isn't going to help you with all of those cross-cuts.

Even if you don't get to rip long stock, a small slider still has its place for certain people. Let's not forget all of the jigs you don't have to build with a slider and the cross-cut capabilities even on solid stock. When you can get a small slider for the price of a SawStop, it's definitely worth considering if it meets your requirements.

[Erik Loza]

Hank, I agree with you and think what I typed didn't come out like I wanted. I guess what I was trying to say was that if you are shopping for a slider, it does not make any sense to spend the money for a small one. One that will not be able to at least crosscut a standard 4x8 panel. That's where I was going with that.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Hank Hill]

Hank, I agree with you and think what I typed didn't come out like I wanted. I guess what I was trying to say was that if you are shopping for a slider, it does not make any sense to spend the money for a small one. One that will not be able to at least crosscut a standard 4x8 panel. That's where I was going with that.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA
Hey! I've gotta make sure someone keeps you on your toes so you stay above the competition. :D

[Rod Sheridan]

I guess I should toss out my B3 Winner because with a 49" slider I've learned that I can't make bookcases or beds.


How many of you own a cabinet saw?

My General 650 had aproximately a 12" crosscut capacity, my Hammer has 48". It crosscuts table tops, headboards, backs for bookcases etc.

My cabinet saw couldn't cross cut the side of a bookcase, let alone the back.

Rip capacity, the General was 32", I bought the same size Hammer.

You couldn't convince me to give up a small slider for a cabinet saw, the small slider does so much more, so much better in the same footprint.

Regards, Rod.

[johnny means]

Now let's not lead the OP to believe that a tracksaw replaces a slider for panel work. Thats like moving a 4 bedroom home with a pickup and saying its the same as a semi. Sure it will do the job, but it will take an exponentially longer amount of time and effort.

[David Kumm]

If you do small furniture work a Hammond Trim saw is a good companion to a regular saw. Nothing fancy but doesn't take up much room and crosscuts 90 dead on for about 18". They can be had for 300-500. Dave

[Jamie Buxton]

Now let's not lead the OP to believe that a tracksaw replaces a slider for panel work. Thats like moving a 4 bedroom home with a pickup and saying its the same as a semi. Sure it will do the job, but it will take an exponentially longer amount of time and effort.

True. If you're a big cabinet shop, processing sheet goods day in and day out, it would make sense to have a big slider or a CNC router. But if you're a one-person shop that processes a few sheets per month, the track saw is a better choice. To use your analogy, most of us can't park a semi in our garage and drive it every day, but we can do that with a pickup.

[Brian Kincaid]

I guess I should toss out my B3 Winner because with a 49" slider I've learned that I can't make bookcases or beds.
How many of you own a cabinet saw?
My General 650 had aproximately a 12" crosscut capacity, my Hammer has 48". It crosscuts table tops, headboards, backs for bookcases etc.
My cabinet saw couldn't cross cut the side of a bookcase, let alone the back.
Rip capacity, the General was 32", I bought the same size Hammer.
You couldn't convince me to give up a small slider for a cabinet saw, the small slider does so much more, so much better in the same footprint.
Regards, Rod.

Rod, I think this was in response to my post. I did not mean to imply you would not be able to use a 'short stroke' slider to build certain types of projects. I'm sure they are nice tools and they are certainly more capable in my opinion that (rip fence only) cabinet saws.

What I was trying to communicate was that on some projects you have to do different things (straight line rip sled using fence, partial cut, etc) that would have utilized a 10' slider natively.

Johnny, the 4 bedroom home semi trailer thing was an interesting analogy. If OP is building cabinets all day long then a sliding table saw (actually a CNC) would be right up his alley because, like a semi with a moving trailer, the tool was specifically designed and sized for this work.

If, however, he is trying to find a better tool to work with sheet goods for occasional work and to solve other woodworking capability gaps then a tracksaw set up for production work (meaning parallel rip fence, 90deg crosscut fence with stops, maybe miter gauge) might be a good option. Because, you wouldn't want to take your semi with a moving trailer on a camping trip with the kids, or to a ballgame, and you certainly wouldn't want it parked in front of your house every day.

-Brian

[Jim Andrew]

A big slider takes up so much room, can't see how most of us could fit one in a home shop. Although, I saw a picture of one on this forum one time that was in a 2 car garage. Not putting them down, they have their place. The scoring blade and control you have of a panel is not like a cabinet saw. I have no plans to get a slider to build the few cabinets I build, just use the fence and cut plywood both directions, of course I use my shark guard and splitter always.

[Jim Becker]

No regrets from me over having a slider in my shop! Yes, I have learned new techniques for handling solid stock, but I've also been able to trade off the need to edge joint as another step by learning to do careful setups and use jigs to get "the edge" on the cut off the saw for project components. When I first got my slider, I rarely used sheet goods. I do use a lot more furniture grade veneer plywood now due to some of the types of projects I've been doing for a couple years now (custom tack trunks), but my first love remains working with native cherry, walnut and poplar.
------

Regarding the OP's question about table sizes...honestly, it's not something I would ever think about with this format of saw. In fact, I'm seriously considering reducing the foot print by removing most of the "right side" auxiliary table on my saw so I can move it another foot and a half over in my shop. That part of the saw largely gets used for "storage" of things anyway. So in thinking about this particular question, my answer would be that the length of the table along the same axis as the slider wagon is more critical than the width in the same direction as the rip fence. Why? Because that's what supports your workpiece as you move it through the cut, particularly for longer workpieces, such as a full length rip of a board or full size sheet of plywood. The manufacturer of the tools is going to vary the table size for multiple reasons, but much of it relates to cost. Bigger tables, especially cast iron tables, cost more to make which is also reflected in the cost to the consumer.