Which jig to buy for the Wolverine - Ellsworth or Vari-Grind?

[Glen Blanchard]

Which should I purchase? There isn't much a difference in price. Opinions welcome.

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/5/-/21/94/-/1562/Ellsworth-Grinding-Jig/ellsworth+sharpening+jig

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/5/-/21/93/-/3891/Oneway-Vari-Grind%25E2%2584%25A2-Jig/vari-grind+jig

[Prashun Patel]

I am not sure how well constructed the Ellsworth is, but I am very happy with the Varigrind. The clamping mechanism is superb, and is self-squaring.
I like the big heft knurled knob on the top; it's a good handle for the left hand while the right holds the gouge.

[Bruce Markwardt]

I would go with the Vari-Grind. Since you can change the V angle it's a lot more flexible and can do different grinds. I own Packard's version of the Ellsworth jig and after struggling with it for a year or so broke down and bought the Vari-Grind. Haven't used the Packard once since.

[Aric Krueger]

Both are good but I would lean toward the vari-grind. They are both self squaring (Ellsworth's jig is milled flat at the top inside the hole for the gouge and clamps from the bottom while the vari-grind clamps from the top with a flat plastic disc over a bearing on the end of the clamping screw).

As Bruce points out, the vari-grind's pivot stem angle can be adjusted to produce a custom side grind angle while Ellsworth's is a fixed angle (meant to reproduce his signature grind on a bowl gouge). As Prashun points out, the vari-grind is built hefty.

Both can be used for both spindle and bowl gouges, however, the vari-grind can give you a little more flexiblity on the side grind (should you desire it) and will accommodate larger gouges than the Ellsworth. The Ellsworth jig was originally designed mainly for 1/2 and 5/8 bowl gouges and to produce a specific grind. It is also too small to accommodate some brands of 5/8 gouges.

see also this thread (if you haven't already) There's some information about the side grind aspect of the vari-grind if you click more replies below current depth in the hybrid view at the top.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?197997-Wolverine-grinding-jig-attachments

[Paul Gilbert]

Another option, and the one I have and love, is the Sharpfast. http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=140901&Category_Code=sharp-shafas

I bought this one when my 3/4" bowl gouge wouldn't fit in my Vari-Grind. I ended up giving my Vari-grind to a friend.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

I bought them all. I sold the VariGrind and never use the Wolverine II. Both restrict you from using the entire width of the wheel. Owning them is only half the battle. You have to experiment with angles on the jig, (not on the Ellsworth) and you have to experiment with distance from the wheel. Angle affects the tip and distance from the wheel affects the grind angle on the side of the tool. (I just earned that recently watching Dave from D-Way demonstrate his sharpening set up. Ellsworth tells you how far from the wheel and how high to make the pocket. When set his way it produces the exact angles he likes. Ellsworth jg does not fit all tools. Personally, I like changing angles on several tools so they perform better for different cuts. That often requires some hand holding of the tool. Start with the Original Varigrind and learn as much as you can about how it can help you sharpen your tools and buy something else of the need arises. It probably won't.
faust

[Mark Levitski]

Angle affects the tip and distance from the wheel affects the grind angle on the side of the tool.

Bingo! I've seen the advice given for the Vari-grind for adjusting the angle of the nose by adjusting the v-arm in and out. That DOES change the tip angle, but it also changes the angle on the side grind. Use the leg angle to adjust the tip angle. Use the distance for the v-arm to tweak the grind angle on the sides.

Sharpfast? A great holder, but I can't speak for the rest of the system. I also bought the Sharpfast holder to accomodate my larger diameter tools. I have two Vari-grind holders and one Sharpfast. Both are very good.

Ellsworth's is just more task specific and less flexible.

Mark

[Harry Robinette]

Mark L.
I have always done it just the opposite,If you use the v-arm to adjust the nose angle then it's set and the in and out can be set at that distance and left there.You can then change your wing with the leg angle so if you need less or more angle for say shear scraping and shear cutting without changing the nose or the set distance from the wheel.
That's the way I was shown to do it by a few different people.I have my V-grind set a 2 notches back from all the way forward,the protrusion at 2 1/8 ,I set the v-arm at 7" from the wheel get 60* for bowl gouges and 6" give me 45* for spindle gouges.The wings stay at the place I use them for shearing.
Just my method and it works for me, probable just like yours works fo you.

[Aric Krueger]

I don't know what notch I use, I'd have to go look, but I use the vari-grind the same way Harry does. I think I have mine set up like this:
http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/images/extra/Sharpening.pdf

(but I don't leave a rounded side wing like their picture shows, I use different bevel angles than they show and I set my protrusion at 2")

That is also how the Raptor Set Up tools work. They adjust the distance of the 'V' arm in relation to where the chisel will contact the face of the grinding wheel. I've heard the recommendation that a mark be made on the 'V' arm at the front of the retaining base to quickly set up for the grind angle. However, that wouldn't work for long because as the wheel wears down and becomes smaller, the distance from the mark to wheel contact becomes greater, thereby changing the grind angle. (Unless you have one of those fancy CBN wheels that don't wear down!) The Raptor Set Up tools solve the problem of the shrinking wheel because they set the distance of the 'V" arm to the wheel's contact face; for a specific nose angle. (I don't use the Raptor Set Up tools because they don't have all the angles I like.)

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/images/prod/100/rap_set_up_too-3.jpg

[Mark Levitski]

Yes, you're right--people do things different ways. My point was that THE ONLY way to affect side grind angle is to move the v-arm in or out. To stay on topic, I recommend the Vari-grind. .

[Thom Sturgill]

The Ellsworth grind can not be created in an unmodified wolverine jig with either the Ellsworth or Vari-grind as the wolverine 'pocket' is 2" too low. Geiger Solutions sells an expensive kit to fix this, but a block of wood works too. That done, the Vari-grind can be set to create the same cut as the Ellsworth, but not the other way as the Varigrind can be adjusted and the Ellsworth is fixed.

All that said, must people will tell you to set the Vari-grind once and leave it.

IMHO, this is fine if all you do is one type of turning, but I think adjustment is needed when you consider the difference between bowl and spindle gouges, even when both have 'fingernail' grinds. this brings up the only argument I can make for the Ellsworth jig - it's always the same, so if you constantly adjust the Vari-grind you do not have to worry about where it's set when you want to grind an Ellsworth grind.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have both and the Ellsworth is collecting dust. I use the vari-grind.

[Aric Krueger]

Yes, you're right--people do things different ways. My point was that THE ONLY way to affect side grind angle is to move the v-arm in or out. To stay on topic, I recommend the Vari-grind. .

That is partially true. Both the nose angle and the side grind are a function of the two parameters (v-arm distance and jig stem angle). If the jig’s stem angle is changed without changing the v-arm distance, the nose bevel angle is changed (because the jig’s stem angle is changed by pivoting through an arc.). If the v-arm is distance is changed without changing the jig’s stem angle, again, the nose bevel angle is changed. The side grind is affected in the same manner. This assumes the protrusion of the chisel remains constant. (Changing the chisel protrusion would require adjusting both of the other parameters to achieve the same results)


By changing one parameter and keeping the other constant, either method can be used to achieve the same results.

[Mark Levitski]

The only way to change the angle of the grind on the wings is to move the v-arm in or out. Doesn't matter what protrusion you use. Doesn't matter what angle you set the leg at. The tool is on its side when the jig is rotated to grind the side wings. Protruding more or less, or moving the leg--neither changes the way the wheel intersects the tool face as far as angle from the cutting edge to the heel. Example: If you set the v-arm out far enough, the wheel will grind only towards to top of the wing. You can almost grind off the tops of both wings if you move it out far enough. If you could set the v-arm IN far enough, you could grind most of the very bottom of the gouge away and hardly get to creating a cutting edge at the flute.

I am talking about when the tool is completely rotated so the handle is parallel to the face of the wheel. As you rotate the tool to be closer to 90 degrees to the face of the wheel, or more grinding the nose, then the leg angle and the protrusion come more into play to affect grind angle.

True side/wing grind angle will not be in any way changed by anything accept v-arm distance.

My story, and I'm stickin' to it :)

[Glen Blanchard]

Thanks for all the input folks. I have ordered the vari-grind.

[Tony Shaftel]

Oh well, better late than never. I haven't used the vari-grind since I got the Ellsworth.

[Aric Krueger]

I guess I just got confused by the instructions that were written by the designers of the vari-grind that came with it and the video put out by the manufacturer concerning it's use...