Looking for a HD table saw and have a question

[John R Allen]

Hi all, I have a question that I really need some advice on.

I've been looking for a new table saw for some time now. I've been a home builder doing high end custom work for over twenty years. As a part of that business we regulatory turn out a lot of custom built-ins, mantels, stair cases, etc. For years I've had a Delta contractor saw that has served most of our needs reasonably well, but it has always lacked in the ripping department. I have an upcoming project that is going to require a lot of ripping and I want to upgrade my saw. I've been looking for a 5hp single phase saw because my shop is limited to single phase power, and I don't want to be left wanting for more power when ripping.

I've looked at all the new options (already decided against a Saw Stop) and I've spent more time on the internet looking at used options than I really care to. I want to do this as inexpensively as I can because I want to get a few accessories too, including a power feeder (another reason for 5hp so I can run rips quickly).

I have looked at the Grizzly G0696X as a new possibility (I have some Grizzly tools and like them), and pretty much all the HD used saws you can name. I do like the PM66 a lot, and I feel the Delta/Rockwell Unisaws would fit the bill too, but it seems that almost all 5hp saws are three phase. My problem is finding a 5hp, single phase saw that is close enough to me to go and pick up (I'm in Northeast TN and I'm willing to drive 5 hours or so one way for the right saw). This leads me to my specific questions.

If were to buy a 3hp saw and decide at some point that it just needed more power, how easily can I retrofit a 5hp motor to a saw? Is there a specific saw that would make this easier or cheaper to do? It looks like a motor would be under $500 so I think this is an option if the price on a 3hp saw was right. I also realize I might find that 3hp is enough as well, but if I can get 5hp upfront that's definitely what I prefer. Any other ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I need to do something on this in the next thirty days.

[glenn bradley]

Just a thought but, a 3HP saw with a high quality blade should rip pretty fast. 5HP will force a worn cutter to run longer but the money you save on the 3HP saw could go to 2 or 3 more high quality rip blades and you could keep cycling them to the sharpening shop. Just a thought as I agree, single phase 5HP that is reasonably efficient is not inexpensive or easy to come by. Some of your 5HP specs may come at a poor efficiency rating(?).

[Cary Falk]

If you are already thinking about 5hp, just bite the bullet and get it now. It will be cheaper.
I would not buy a tablesaw without a riving knife. That for the most part means new.
I like all of my Grizzly stuff. It is overkill for my hobby enviorment. If you have been using a contractor saw all this time I don't see how a HD Grizzly cabinet saw would not hold up.

[Rich Riddle]

I thought you meant heavy duty table saws like the Delta 12/14 and Powermatic models 72 or 74. Those machines came standard with 5HP motors. They can also run 12" or 14" blades that provide the ability to cut deeper. For any type of work where I did woodworking professionally, those would be my choices. Parts are plentiful.

A friend recently purchased a new single phase 5HP motor for his Delta 12/14 on eBay for $250. That motor bolts right up to the mounting bracket and the 3-phase motors have the same frame (for the later models 12/14). I own a Delta (Rockwell) 12/14, and it's in the shop in Virginia. You can find both those models inexpensively because most came with the three phase units. The first two pictures are of a Delta the last two of a Powermatic.

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[David Kumm]

I've a Rockwell 12 with a single phase 5 hp motor that is original so they are out there. It would be cheaper to get a three phase saw with a vfd than change motors or at least close. Depends on if you need to change the starter too. The problem with converting three to five is you will need to change the 3 or 4 sheave pulley if the shaft is different and maybe the starter. The table on the bigger saws gives you more room for the feeder and the blade set back farther from the front of the table makes ripping easier in my world. Those big saws go for 1500-2000 used in good shape. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

There's another reason to think about an industrial saw as opposed to a basic cabinet saw....when you run a feeder your able to exert a LOT more stress on the saw than you can by hand feeding. A Unisaw or Powermatic 66 or whichever cabinet saw you get is going to have the same bearings and trunnions with a 3 hp motor as it is with a 5 hp motor. These machines were originally designed and supplied with smaller 1-1/2 - 3 hp motors. With the modern, "more is better" philosophy manufacturers just started shoehorning bigger motors into the saws, while the rest of the internals stayed the same. So while you may get a 5 hp motor into one of them, it is not going to be comparable to a true 5 hp saw like some of the saws mentioned above. Probably not a problem for most stuff, but again, once you bolt a feeder to the saw your changing the way the machine is used so you have to keep that in mind.

good luck,
JeffD

[Jim Andrew]

Your description of your works reads like mine used to, except I retired when I was 50 and set up my home shop. I had an old Cman saw from back in the 50's with a delta fence. Bought it from a cabinet shop guy, and he had 2 Uni's. In 04 I bought a new 3 hp Uni, and it is at least twice the saw your contractors saw is. I used to put smaller blades on my cman to rip 2" lumber, but my uni cuts anything I want easily. Main thing is what blade you are using. If you have a Freud 24 tooth rip blade you can rip anything and fast at that. I ripped some 2" oak just a few days ago, and it cut easily.

[Michael W. Clark]

I would second the comment about new with a riving knife, especially since you intend to do a lot of ripping and you may have other employess using the saw. I have the Grizzly 1023 5HP 3ph. It is a very solid machine. It is also availabe as a single phase version. Take a hard look at the fence options, if you use a power feeder it will put a lot more force on the fence. If you go old iron, invest in some type of splitter system.

[John R Allen]

I appreciate the information everyone. I really don't know anything about phase converters and figured that would probably be more costly than swapping out a motor. Am I wrong about that, and should I not be too worried about whether a saw is single or three phase? Is there a particular phase converter that is the preferred one to look at should I decide to go that route? The reason I mentioned the saws like the PM 66 and Unisaw is because they are available in single phase and I didn't think the bigger industrial versions were. I'm really open to all input.

[David Kumm]

Either the vfd or the Rotary phase converter option (RPC) will cost in the 500-800 range. RPC can run other three phase machines, the vfd is pretty much dedicated to one machine and involves some bypassing and wiring changes. Not difficult. If the machine starts and stops a lot three phase is better, if it stays on a long time it doesn't matter. Three phase motors tend to be a little stronger due to their efficiency. Only a few old cast iron saws had riving knives but I've got an MJ splitter on the throat plate and a sharkguard for the twice a year I put on the overhead. Dave

[Peter Kelly]

Used straight line rip saw? Shouldn't be too hard to find a decent Mattison or Diehl for around $5k. Cut quality will be far superior to a table saw with a stock feeder.

[David Kumm]

Have you looked at the machinery exchange on www.woodweb.com (http://www.woodweb.com)? Dave

[Erik Christensen]

go 5 HP for sure. I have a 3hp saw and it has done everything I asked of it till I had to rip a lot of 8/4 hard maple - I had to really slow doen the feed rate on a number of the rip to keep from bogging the motor down - yes saw is aligned and it has a sharp ridge carbide rip blade on it - some thing 3 hp is not enough for