How much runout is enough...

[Michael Kellough]

to make you send a chuck back to the vender?

I'm a turning beginner outfitting a new Rikon Mini lathe.

The spindle (surprisingly) shows no discernible runout by eye. Neither the supplied drive center or 3" faceplate.

In keeping with my low start-up budget I bought some Asian import accessories and they have substantial runout.

A faceplate was so bad I asked them to send another and the replacement is just as bad.

A scroll chuck that uses a spindle mount similar to Oneway Talon also had very visible runout. Even the spindle adapter itself. The vender sent another adaptor and it too is the same. Yes, I carefully re-mounted the adaptor a few times turning each screw a small amount in sequence with the same result each time.

I'm going to get a dial indicator to measure these things but I wonder how much runout is acceptable before it becomes a problem? I mainly want to turn bowls. Is runout even relevent in turning bowls, especially using green wood? I expect runout would cause troublesome vibration but maybe turning would eliminate that?

I'd like to get rid of as many of the mechanical difficulties as I can afford so I can concentrate on learning. Any advice towards that end?

[John Keeton]

Michael, I don't know how much you have invested, but whatever the cost, it will be the cheapest lesson you will ever learn....IF....you never go cheap again with accessories you intend to spin on a lathe. Runout simply has no place in a turning environment. It is very difficult to do quality work with that situation.

To make matters worse, I believe you have already proven that sending these items back for an exchange simply does not work. A refund would be the best option, and then wait until you can budget sufficiently to buy quality.

There are some tools where less than great quality will suffice - even some having to do with turning. But, not if they are intended to spin on the lathe.

[Michael Mills]

How much is too much? My chucks run from .001 to .008 with only one above .005 on the body.
To me this is fine for woodworking and I am thrilled with all that run .005 or less, even the .008 doesn’t bother me. The only problem I had with was with a retailers made insert which ran .014, when I changed it to the OEM insert runout dropped to .004
You are having lots problems even with various Asian imports. Do you have one of the plastic washers on the spindle? If so try removing it.
If not check the headstock for any small burr with your thumb nail. If you can detect a burr try to carefully remove it. It doesn’t take much to cause a big problem.

[Harry Robinette]

Michael
I'm with Mr.John on this one, the most run-out I have is my large Nova Titan and it's at .002 . Run-out is bad,if you can see it that's way past BAD.
Save your money and buy a name brand,Nova,Oneway,Vicmarc but by one good chuck and it will last a life time.

[Brian Kent]

Michael, it is very important to me that the machine runs "perfectly" as in no visible runout, no vibration. I need to know that if there is vibration or wobble, I am dealing with the wood, the tool, or the technique, but that the lathe is doing its job right. I am a beginner with a Delta midi, and silky smooth will be a primary consideration if I ever "graduate" to a bigger lathe.

I would return an imperfect product.

[Jason Ritchie]

One of the best investments I ever made was on a Oneway Stronghold chuck. I have worked with several "lower" quality chucks in the past and I was amazed at the difference. I always thought I must have been doing something wrong and wasted a lot of hours of frustration thinking it was my technique or something else I was doing wrong. If you are strapped for cash though as I was for many years (still am really) and you really want to get your budget chuck to work you can try checking to make sure the spindle is not bottoming out inside the adapter on the chuck body as this will cause really bad wobble. The chuck will seem to tighten up but the adapters are cut a little loose to ease in installing it and if it bottoms out in the chuck body BEFORE the shoulders on the spindle and chuck body meet up flush it will go off center. One such incompatible match was my old Harbor Freight 34-706 lathe and Nova Midi chuck. I found that I had to put a washer between the chuck and the spindle to get a somewhat lower runout. I bought several large washers from Lowes because they all varied with how flat they were. Best of luck and stick with it!

[Jeffrey J Smith]

It's been a while and I can't recall the name of the gentleman, but he was demoing at our club a couple of years ago. He had been a rep for OneWay and told us that, on chucks that use a taper fit adapter like OneWay uses, its a good idea to tap them on the back ocasionally to make certain they're seated properly and retighten the screws. He used two chucks and tapped them together adapter to adapter, then checked the screws - both were slightly loose.

I've made it a practice every few months to give them a check, and ben surprised that they sometimes need tightening up. Seems like it could cause runout problems...good to check, though.

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks for the suggestions and comments!

The adapters are a little loose right up until they run against the spindle flange. No extra washers or anything but I guess the looseness could account for some runout of the adapters themselves.

Jason, you can buy precision ground arbor spacers from machinist supply places, Enco, MSC etc.

I set up a dial indicator and checked the lathe spindle, faceplates, and the chuck.

I must have had beginner's luck with the lathe because the un-threaded part of the spindle is out only .0003" and the flange only .0005".

Turns out the cheap import faceplates are good too. It's the non-contact part of the rim that is way off-center and visibly annoying but I don't think that could affect turning.

The knock-off oneway chuck was a whole lot more interesting. The adapters alone on the spindle have runout ranging from 7 to over 9 thousandths but I knew the +/- of one part could cancel out the +/- of another so I went ahead and assembled everything and set up to measure the runout of the jaws themselves. I noted the measurement at the center outside of each jaw as the chuck was revolved by hand. I know it will be different at speed but...

Each adapter can be mounted three ways so that gave me six combinations to test. The worst combination had runout of nearly .02" but the best (and very last tested) was only .0022" Considering that the jaws are about four inches from the spindle flange I'm very pleased with that!

There is a problem though. The body of the chuck runs out of true by about .01" and it causes some vibration at speed. But, I doubt I could get better running jaws from a name brand chuck so I'll probably keep this despite the extra vibration (nothing compared to wood) but if I do buy a better chuck it will probably be a OneWay because of the possibility to fine-tune the runout by changing the position of the adapter.

[Brian Kent]

You can get a Nova reconditioned for $89:
http://www.novatoolsusa.com/RECONDITIONED-NOVA-Precision-Midi-Chuck-48111-R.htm

No vibration or visible runout.

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks for the tip Brian. Doesn't seem to be any in stock though...

Do you use this type -two lever arms- ? Is it much more troublesome than the geared key style of tightening?