8" jointer

[Kevin Guarnotta]

Well, I think I have finally realized I need a jointer for my shop. I have been reading about them for a while - and this is what I am getting so far -
If you can go for 8", as you will outgrow a 6". That is why you see lots of 6" for sale on craigslist.
The helical blades cut better.
Dovetail vs Parrallelogram. Parallelogram beds are theoretically better, but for the majority of small shops, dovetail is fine.

I'm leaning towards a Grizzly. I was all for the helical cutters. Then I saw some folks recommending buying it with straight cutters, and then buying byrd helical cutter to replace the one it comes with. I'm not sure why, but I see if you do that, it only costs about $50 more. Are the Byrd heads better than the grizzly?

I'm also looking into used jointers, but hard to find an 8". When I do, the price is not a lot better than buying a new one, if I factor in my time to go look at it, test it out(if even possible), and no warranty-I'm not sure it is worth it. Plus trying to get the beast into my truck, and safely transport it to my shop. As opposed to having it delivered to my driveway, then just rolling it to my shop.

there are two near me, one is Isis and the other GeeTech. I have not gotten much info online about the Isis, and it doesn't look to be well taken care. The other Geetech, looks to be in ok shape, and is from 1996. I'm still trying to figure out the price on that. My condition grading is based merely on the posted photos. Seetech is supposedly the same as grizzly...

Any thoughts/suggestions...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Kevin,

My first jointer was a cheap, very short Craftsman. I replaced it with a Grizzly G0490X. It has the parallelogram tables and the helical cutters. I have read people prefer the Byrd heads. I haven't had any disappontments with the results of the Grizzly spiral cutters so far and I have jointed all kinds of hard wood.

Frankly, I have looked at the Powermatic equivalent at my local (110 miles 1 way) Woodcraft and have to admit the fit and finish is better on the Powermatic BUT....the price is considerably more. I can't and didn't justify that.

My main reason for buying a spiral head jointer. Less time spent chaining cutting devices and alignment.

When I replace my lunchbox planer, it will be a spiral head planer too!

[Rick Moyer]

I wouldn't sweat over paralleogram vs. dovetail. I just re-checked my jointer (G0586) and found that the tables were coplaner within <.001 and it's been moved twice since last checked. I've had it about 5 years.(dovetail). can't say whether Byrd is better than Grizzly, but I think Grizz is spiral and Byrd is helical.

[Kevin Guarnotta]

The grizzly 490 is one I was looking at, as well as the grizzly 656. I guess one reason to possible go with the 656, is smaller upfront cost. To switch to a helical or spiral cutter looks to be about the same price as if I got the spiral cutter to begin with. This way I can use the regular cutting head, to see if I like it, or until I have more money. As far as the 490 vs the 656, I thought I'd go with the 490-as it had longer bed and fence, until I saw that the 656 has a rack and pinion adjustment of the fence. That seems like a much nicer feature, that I would appreciate more. Ken what do you think about the fence adjsutment on the 490?

[Mort Stevens]

If you can go for 8", as you will outgrow a 6".

I have a Delta 6" X5 jointer. The 6" size serves my day-today needs well, and if needed I can even run 12" wide stock through it (although some may take issue with my method). The 6" is a nice compact size when compared to the 8" models... although I could have made space for the length of an 8" but considering how many times I need that extra 2" in width, and those times when I would even an 8" jointer wouldn't be enough. So the 6" Delta was my choice.

[george newbury]

<snip>
I'm also looking into used jointers, but hard to find an 8". When I do, the price is not a lot better than buying a new one, if I factor in my time to go look at it, test it out(if even possible), and no warranty-I'm not sure it is worth it. Plus trying to get the beast into my truck, and safely transport it to my shop. As opposed to having it delivered to my driveway, then just rolling it to my shop.

there are two near me, one is Isis and the other GeeTech. I have not gotten much info online about the Isis, and it doesn't look to be well taken care. The other Geetech, looks to be in ok shape, and is from 1996. I'm still trying to figure out the price on that. My condition grading is based merely on the posted photos. Seetech is supposedly the same as grizzly...

Any thoughts/suggestions...
That about summarizes my looking for a 20" planar. Early last summer I found a couple going for about $500. Now it seems ALL are going for about $1,000, even the 3 phase. I think the economy is picking up and the deals are drying up a bit.

I'm waiting for a sale at grizzly.

[David Kumm]

The type of cutter head is the least important criteria IMO. The Byrd head is superior but a jointer doesn't usually provide a final surface so it isn't as important as on a planer. Tables ground flat and set parallel and co planar are what is important. The wedgebed design was first rate when the tables were bolted to the wedges. Now they are one piece so if milled correctly at the factory you are good forever assuming the cast iron is stable. If not your only Plan B is shimming which is not fun. Parallelogram designs are a way to improve the adjustment over the cost reduced current design. If a straight knife cutter isn't quite parallel to the tables the knives can be adjusted to fix it. With a spiral head you need to be able to adjust the cutter or the tables so if getting a dovetail wedgebed be sure the cutter can be leveled as the tables can't. The largest fence is the best if flat and most jointers don't have real foolproof systems for returning to 90 so I'd take flat over the adjustment method. Dave

[Ken Fitzgerald]

First......I corrected my initial post to indicate the G0490X has spiral heads rather than helical heads.

Kevin,

The adjustment on the fence is easy enough. I will admit there is more slop to it than I would like but once locked down it functions well. I have a machinist square that I use when I move the fence and set it up. I don't find it difficult to quickly reset and use. As David said, flat is more important.

Once a cutterhead is shimmed, one should not have to a reshim it. If one of the tables becomes non-parallel to the cutterhead, that individual table needs to be realigned to the cutterhead.

In my shop, I have tools for which I paid a lot more money. With each purchase, I weighed the cost versus reliability, accuracy, frequency of useage, etc.

For the amount of money, the G0490X was a good buy for me.

[Jim Tabor]

Kevin, Like many woodworkers I started with a 6" jointer and moved up to a 8". In my case it was a 6" Ridgid that had to short of a bed for handling long stock, to a Grizzly G0586. with a nice 76" long bed. Bought it about five years ago during one of their sales. Never had a problem with it. My only problem has been starting small or cheap, then selling, and buying better or larger. I have wasted tons of money doing that. My advice: go for what you need the first time.

[Kevin Guarnotta]

Hi George,

Not sure where you are located, butI did see a 16" on craigslist for I think $400. It was in CT, I do remember it was too big for my shop, and it was $400. Plus I am in Boston.

[Scott Reed]

I have the 490X and love it. My work has certainly improved and has become easier with the accuracy of this machine. The spiral head is a huge plus. I can't think of a negative to mention, the machine does exactly what is was designed to do. I came fro a small 6" jointer and definitely see the benifit of a larger jointer.

[Andy Pratt]

Kevin, I'll offer a few recommendations in order of preference. I started with a 6" jet planer then upgraded to a 12" J/P combo with a byrd spiral head.

- I wouldn't buy a jointer today without the spiral carbide head. (haven't tried the grizzly style spiral head but I've heard it's fine) The money and time you save in blades/blade sharpenings, blade set up and dealing with tear out will pay for the cutterhead cost in no time. Additionally, if you do hit a piece of hard metal in wood you simply replace (or rotate) the affected bits, instead of the whole set of blades. I won't be surprised if in 10 years it is hard to buy a jointer or planer without a spiral carbide head. The upgrade to it has steadily dropped in cost (or stayed level) and increased in availability. I can't recommend the spiral head enough and would take a 6" jointer with it over an 8" without.

- If you want to do high quality work efficiently, you will end up face jointing every board that goes into each project. Your jointer width is ideally the width of the max (useable) board width you would commonly come across in your work. If for some reason your wood supply or project type has you using mostly 6" or under boards, then don't feel you have to have an 8" jointer right off the bat. This would probably only be the case if you used a lot of no. 1 common or lesser grade lumber, or construction lumber in your projects (not typical). By far the most common projects in woodworking involve FAS lumber (which has a minimum width of 6") and are much better suited by an 8" or 10" jointer. You don't want the max capacity of your jointer to be the minimum board size you get, and that is what typically happens when someone buys a 6" jointer.

Plenty of people with an 8" jointer still wish they had more. I have a 12" and find that it only limits me on door panels and the occasional monster board. An 8" would drive me crazy at this point, a 12" is adequate for what I do.

My recommendation would be to find a quality used 6 or 8" jointer that is set up for dust collection and has a reasonably good name on it, and plan to resell it for around what you paid for it when you grow out of it. At that point you will know better what size is suited to your work and can buy the model you plan to keep for a long time, that's the jointer you should buy new. I just checked the boston craigslist and saw a reliant 6" jointer that looked good for $250, that wouldn't be a bad place to start, and if you took care of it I'm sure you would get your money back for it when you went to upgrade.

[Cary Falk]

I started out with a 6" Jet and them moved up to a Shop Fox W1741(same as the G0490) a few years later. For me, the extra length of the bed is just as nice as the extra width. I am able to flaten about 95% of the wood I use. I ended up putting a Byrd head in it when the knives got dull because the Grizzly tech at the time said it was the only one that would fit. I have the G0453z which has the Grizzly head in it. I had to remove and reseat all of the cutter heads in the Byrd to get a good cut. Truth be told I get less tear out on the Byrd on the jointer. That may be more of a result of feedrate than the head. Neither is a finsih ready finish, but a planer or jointer isn't meant to be.

[Kevin Guarnotta]

Thanks for all the feedback...it sounds like the most important thing is FLAT beds. that can't be changed. was writ "The Byrd head is superior but a jointer doesn't usually provide a final surface so it isn't as important as on a planer" Thanks for that tip, I actually had not thought of it that way.
The reasons I would like a jointer are numerous-but one is that came up recently was a solid mahogany wall hung cabinet I was making. The wood was not as flat as I would have liked, and it took a lot of work to get it to work. I alot of work-arounds I read about on this site. I don't want to do that again.

[Kevin Guarnotta]

hey andy, that is a great idea...maybe it should be the way to go. Even if I outgrow the 6", I shold get some money for it. If I get a year out of it, that is not too bad. I have also seen a way to use a 6" jointer in combination with a 12" planer to be able to joint 12' boards.

Plus a 6" used jointer seems pretty easy to find, and a LOT cheaper than an 8". As I don't really have much experience using a jointer-this will give me some time to learn what I like and don't like about a machine.

THANKS to all of you for your advice and tips.

[Leo Graywacz]

Hi George,

Not sure where you are located, butI did see a 16" on craigslist for I think $400. It was in CT, I do remember it was too big for my shop, and it was $400. Plus I am in Boston.

Boy I could use that. I have the Delta DJ 20, an 8" and it works really nice (now). I really need a 12", but I could live with a 16"

[David Kumm]

Don't rule out a 12". There are good used bargains out there. Five years ago the 12" seemed like a hot size but not so much now so there are choices. It is a nice upgrade for an extra 4" of floor space. Dave

[Gene Waara]

I started with a '50's era CM that was my dad's. I made due with it for years but started looking for an 8" a couple of years ago. You are correct, good affordable ones are few and far between. My patience paid off, however, and I bought a very lightly used and well maintained 8" Grizzly for a very fair price. If you don't have an immediate need, keep looking and a good 8" will turn up. I am strictly a hobbyist and while a Byrd head would be nice I simply cannot justify the cost. A sharp straight blade works well for me. Good luck.

[Kevin Guarnotta]

Well Andy, I did as you suggested. The Reliant was only 20 minutes from my house. I picked it up yesterday, and hope to clean it up a bit, and put it on a mobile stand this week, and add a dust collection chute. I think the money & time was a small enough investment, and I should be able to recoup a good bit of it when I sell it. The 490X sounds like a great machine, but I think I can hold off on that for a bit, and meanwhile learn what I like and don't like about a jointer-by actually using one.

Mort how do you run 12" stock through a 6" jointer? I've seen one method whereby you can run a 12" board through a 6" jointer, then take that edge, put it on a flat board through a 12" planer, and then you effectively joint a 12" piece of lumber. Just wondering how you do it?

[Al Currano]

I just purchased an 8" Delta DJ-20 that is about 9 years old for $700 that was lightly used and in almost perfect condition. The current DJ-20 is almost identical and sells for around $2000 new. You can probably get an older one for even less if you take your time and are patient. I'm replacing my trusty old Powermatic Model 50 6" jointer, which I purchased new about 40 years ago. That is going to my son who is upgrading from a cheapo junk 6" jointer he doesn't even want to use anymore it is so bad. I love the PM, but to me 8" is the sweet spot for the work I want to do, and so I finally decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to 8". Would've like to stay with PM, but I couldn't find a good used one to fit my budget. Used PM 60B's and 60C's are selling for $1000 and up around here - so I went with the Delta, which looks to be a nice machine and has gotten good reviews from others on this forum. I especially like the long (76") table of the DJ-20. Should have upgraded to 8" years ago, and I recommend you consider going with an 8" from the outset, unless the budget is really tight, in which case you can start with a good 6" and upgrade later. Of course Grizzly and others have good 8" machines as well.

The width of the jointer doesn't have to match the width of the lumber you are using. I may have a 10" or wider rough board I will be using in a project, but chances are good that none of the pieces I end up with after machining will be that wide. Most will be ripped down to narrower widths, in some cases to be glued up again into wider panels, alternating the grain to minimize across-the grain warpage of the panel. Unless you have quartersawn lumber it is generally not advisable to use a board that wide asis in the finished piece because of the high probability of serious warpage over time.

Therefore given that you will usually be ripping the wider boards before using them in the finished product, you won't want to joint them before ripping them. Otherwise you may lose significant wood thickness and spend a lot more time and effort jointing to get the face flat, as the cupping and wind will be much greater (in absolute terms) over a wider board than over a narrower piece ripped from the same board. Of course if the rough board is almost perfectly flat to begin with that may not be an issue, but in my experience that is almost never the case.

[Jeff Duncan]

OK I'm late to the party since you already bought...but I'll throw out a couple thoughts anyway.

First off you 'can' joint boards wider than the jointer....I just wouldn't recommend it. It requires removing the guard and being comfortable with operating the machine. As a new user I just don't think it's a great idea....just my opinion though so.....?

Second I think the insert heads are nice, but certainly not necessary and probably just a bit over sold. I also think the cost savings are overstated. Someone using the jointer several times over a weekend is probably not going to need to sharpen the knives for several years. Unless you hit something in the wood that shouldn't be there, or work with a lot of hard exotics, your knives should last quite a while. For reference I use my 16" jointer daily on mostly domestic hardwoods and can go over a year between sharpening the knives. My 8" jointer sees far less use and I'm on the same set of knives I bought the machine with several years ago. Not to say if you have the expendable income that it's not a nice little upgrade, just that it's far from a necessity.

So now you have a machine, and the best way to learn about it is to use it. Make sure everything is in correct alignment and then run some boards over it. Over time you'll learn what you like and dislike about it and you'll be much better able to choose your next machine should you ever get to the point you want to upgrade. And if you do decide to upgrade the best advice I can give is to be patient. Most of my shop is used equipment and the best deals are the ones that come along when your not actively looking.....something to do with Murphy;)

good luck,
JeffD