Grizzly 17" Ultimate Bandsaw G0636XB

[Jim Foster]

There is not much in the way of reviews out there on this saw. I see Popular Woodworking likes it, but other than that not many reviews yet. Anyone have one? Any comparisons to the Italian saws?

[Sherzod Niazov]

It's a solid performer. I haven't seen the Italian saws, but I don't need to. I can't imagine what could possibly be done to improve this saw. I have it paired with the TriMaster 1" blade and can effortlessly saw paper thin veneer all day if I wanted to. The saw is everything Grizzly claims it to be.

[Steven Hsieh]

You are comparing apples and bananas.
Two different beast that dont come close.

Are you mainly using for resaw?

[Rick Moyer]

You are comparing apples and bananas.
Two different beast that dont come close.

Are you mainly using for resaw?

Curious as to why you say that? Seems to me that it is a very reasonable question comparing relatively similarly spec'd bandsaws. Please justify your response for the benefit of the rest of us reading this thread.

[Steven Hsieh]

Because the asian made and italians are built differently.

[John Bailey]

I think the GO636XB' are very similar to the Italian saws. We may be mixing up the GO513 series bandsaws with the GO636. Grizzly's naming everything "Extreme" and "Ultimate" confuses sometimes.

The GO636 and the larger GO701 are Grizzly's direct attempt to compete with the Italian saws, so it would be a fair comparison. Whether or not they live up to the rightly deserved good reputation of the Italian saws will be answered by those who buy them and write their oppinions and reviews. My guess would be that, at their price point, they will review favorably. At this point, I'm not sure there are enough Grizzlies out there to get a lot of input.

John

[Perry Holbrook]

There is not much in the way of reviews out there on this saw. I see Popular Woodworking likes it, but other than that not many reviews yet. Anyone have one? Any comparisons to the Italian saws?

I've had one for at least a couple of years in my production shop. It replaced an 18" Jet. I've not operated any of the Italian saws, but I would be surprised if they could do anything I can't do with the Grizzly.

Perry

[ian maybury]

Went through a similar process in at least two separate threads back in 2010 Jim: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?144850-Just-how-good-is-the-Grizzly-GO636XB-bandsaw

I ended up buying an almost new 24in Agazzani that (very rare to see an Agg come up here) turned up as a result of shop going out of business at a very attractive price, and couldn't really turn it down. It's been great (hardly breaks sweat no matter what - while its predecessor - a much lighter German saw - struggled to control blade tracking on deep re-sawing), but then the opportunity has never come up to make a direct comparison.

I very much had my eye on one of the GO636XB family saws - they have some very nice features around the table tilt, availability of an extension table, the blade tensioning lever and so on. There's a UK distributor that seems to do it in different colours (out of the same Taiwanese factory as Grizzly), and another in Germany. The two users of the UK saws i found gave very positive feedback

It's extremely hard to get solid information by which to make the comparison between the 636 and the Italians though, never mind to confirm whether or not the saws going to Germany and the UK (my sourcing options) were the same spec as the Grizzly. In the end i basically failed and was overtaken by events when the 'safe' option of the Agazzani came up.

What seemed to emerge was that there's a well established market for big re-saw capable heavy duty model (there are lighter models in most ranges including the Grizzly) Italian bandsaws in the US (the heavy duty models of Agazzani/Minimax/Felder/Centauro etc), with the result that there's lots of highly credible and very positive reported user experience about. The trouble is that there's very little cross over between this Italian saw user community and those buying Eastern made saws.

There were some individual buyers of the GO636 that kindly posted in my threads and spoke very highly of it when used for similar tasks, but in the end it can be very hard to unravel what different people mean by 'good'. Many buyers of saws for example just use them in very undemanding ways - for profiling curved parts in sheet materials. Some use them for heavy re-sawing - but even that can be more or less demanding depending on needs and i felt i couldn't reliably get a lock on the 636.

Mr. Grizzly came on and was fairly cautious apart from generalised comment. I'd been hoping for information on specific design features (like the thickness of the sheet metal used in the chassis, stiffness relative to say the Minimax 16in - which the 636 was seemingly directly targeting - and so on), but none was available. Not from the UK or Germany either.

None of which solves a lot for you either. There hasn't been much comment about (that I've seen anyway) since then (around the time the 636 was introduced), and some of the Italians and their importers have struggled too what with the recession and so on. If I had to guess my sense is that the GO636 is rock solid, but maybe a few more users will post. Maybe you could get to do some testing on one??

ian

[Joe Angrisani]

You are comparing apples and bananas. Two different beast that dont come close. Are you mainly using for resaw?


Curious as to why you say that? Seems to me that it is a very reasonable question comparing relatively similarly spec'd bandsaws. Please justify your response for the benefit of the rest of us reading this thread.


Because the asian made and italians are built differently.

Thank you, Steven. Those are some of the most complete answers I've ever read, and you make a wonderful and compelling argument for the Italian saws. I can now see why you are such a fan. It's the details and your experiences/comparisons of both that won me over.

[David Kumm]

I would call Grizzly and get someone who could speak to the frame construction. The specs state the saw is heavy- probably over 600 lbs net and heavier is better in the resaw world. Looks like the trunnions are solid. You should be able to compare the steet metal thickness on the neck and type of construction to the MM 16. If it compares favorably it then comes down to how well they balance the wheels and the quality of the motor. I don't know the cost of the MM16 but it seems the Grizzly is worth a look. There is a Bridgewood ACM 28" on CL at half the price so I'm not ever likely to buy new in the bandsaw world. Dave

[Charlie Gummer]

Thank you, Steven. Those are some of the most complete answers I've ever read, and you make a wonderful and compelling argument for the Italian saws. I can now see why you are such a fan. It's the details and your experiences/comparisons of both that won me over.

You, eloquently, took the words right out of my mouth. Well played.

[Jim Foster]

Hopefully I'll get to see one in action at some point or meet someone that's has used the Italian saws and one of these. The fact that Popular Woodworking rated it so high really caught my interest and it does seem heavy enough to be a broadly capable saw. Like to take the plunge this year, it will really round out my shop. If money were not an object, the big Powermatic would probably be my choice, but...

[Dave Lehnert]

If money were not an object, the big Powermatic would probably be my choice, but...

Powermatic in the last year came out with a new 15" model. http://www.powermatic.com/Products.aspx?Part=1791500
Priced at $2899.00. I got to see one at a local dealer and it looks to be well built. They had it sitting right next to a 19" Shopfox (grizzly Like) band saw and the powermatic looked way better built. But the Shopfox was priced at around $1,399.00 (And it also looked well built, just not as heavy duty)

Just to note- I was looking at bandsaws at my local dealer and was comparing the Shopfox with Grizzly (catalog). After dealer discount, tax, shipping, etc.... the dealer Shopfox brand came in at only $25 more vs the Grizzly. Does Shopfox have an ultimate bandsaw??? may be worth a check at your dealer. For $25 would gladly give my dealer the bizz to save the possible shipping damage hassle. Just some info for you to think about and look into.

[Rick Moyer]

Just got home from Grizzly so while I was there I took a look at their bandsaws. The 0636 looks like twice the saw that the 0614 is, and the 0614 is a really nice saw IMO. Seems to have all the features one would need and that 5HP motor on the back looks impressive. Everything about it looked very sturdy and capable, but I can't compare it to the Italian saws as I haven't used on or seen one.

[Jim Foster]

I did not see that one yet, looks nice, no real reviews for that either. Fits my shop a little better though...


Powermatic in the last year came out with a new 15" model. http://www.powermatic.com/Products.aspx?Part=1791500
Priced at $2899.00. I got to see one at a local dealer and it looks to be well built. They had it sitting right next to a 19" Shopfox (grizzly Like) band saw and the powermatic looked way better built. But the Shopfox was priced at around $1,399.00 (And it also looked well built, just not as heavy duty)

[Steven Hsieh]

If you are using it for resaw, I would take a look hard at the Minimax MM20

http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_bs.tpl&product_id=257&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMbF15k2jTo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMbF15k2jTo)

Talk to Erik Loza about it

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?89866-Erik-Loza


Your next option is the Laguna Italian LT16 HD Bandsaw

http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt16hd (http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt16hd)

[Mike Cutler]

Jim

I don't know that I would evaluate it solely on how it stacks up against an Italian bandsaw. I'd look more at will it do what you need it too.

Steven
I don't know that the video that you linked too really demonstrates the capabilities of the MM's, which are fabulous bandsaws by the way.
Walnut is a relatively "soft" hardwood, and what the video demonstrated is easily accomplished with most adequately powered saws of that design type, with a proper blade, regardless of country of origin. Push some Brazilian Walnut through a saw of you're really trying to "put the wood to it", and yes, I have along with some Brazilian ebony. Padauk,and Jatoba can bring a bandsaw to it's knees also on tall, long resaws. An 8"x 22' long Sitka spruce beam is a good test too.;).
They should have included a close up of the board faces to show the smoothness of the resawn faces, if that's what they were trying to point out.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Didn't the OP ask if anybody had an experience with a G0636XB?

[Perry Holbrook]

I've had one for at least a couple of years in my production shop. It replaced an 18" Jet. I've not operated any of the Italian saws, but I would be surprised if they could do anything I can't do with the Grizzly.

Perry

Jim, I should have added an invitation to come by my shop and play with mine, if you would like. I'm in Asheville, NC a nice place to visit for other reasons.

Perry

[David Kumm]

I don't own either MM or Grizzly saws- I'm a cast iron guy- but I wouldn't consider it a sales pitch if Mr. Balolia would give us specifics on the relatively new saw. I'd be interested in frame and neck build, sheet metal thickness and how it is designed for strength, how the tensioning support has been beefed up and what type of blades- carbide resaw types could be tensioned to. Have the bearings been upgraded to support the additional stress, stuff like that. It is difficult to get any details on how machines are built so we all speculate and extrapolate based on experience which isn't always valid. I'd like more knowledge. Dave

[Shiraz Balolia]

.............I'd like more knowledge. Dave

The very first thing I would do is read the detailed specifications that are available for each machine on our website on the machine page.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-5-HP-220V-Extreme-Series-Bandsaw-with-Brake/G0636XB

While you are at it, you may be interested in looking at the manual that's also posted on the website.

Secondly, watch the video of our bandsaw comparison,

Thirdly, call our toll-free line and ask for the name of a person closest to you that has purchased the machine you are interested in,

Fourth, call our service techs for specific information you could not find in all of the above,

Fifth, ask on the forum about owners who have first hand experience with the particular machine you are interested in.

These are the tools readily available to get all the information you want on most of our machines.

[J.R. Rutter]

Didn't the OP ask if anybody had an experience with a G0636XB?


..................Any comparisons to the Italian saws?

Parts of that Italian bandsaw post were informative, much strayed into infomercial, glad I saw it while it was here...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Parts of that Italian bandsaw post were informative, much strayed into infomercial, glad I saw it while it was here...

JR...what I saw was a lot of recommendations for Italian made bandsaws without anyone stating they had seen and/or operated both saws and thus could provide a comparison.

I interpreted the OPs questions as 1) Does anybody have experience with the G0636XB?" and 2) "How does the Grizzly G0636XB compare to Italian made bandsaws" .....not "Give me a recommendation for an Italian made bandsaw."

BTW....I have an MM-16.....but I didn't respond to the OP's questions as I haven't seen the Grizzly product and thus can't make a comparison or evaluation.

[Andy Cover]

I wish Grizzly would purchase a MM16 and compare it directly in a youtube video with the G0636. It would be so insightful and could possibly do lots to increase sales of the G0636. An honest side by side comparison would be awesome! Another thing; having 6 different 17" bandsaws makes no sense. When I took marketing in college, I learned that when people are given too many choices, they won't choose but if only given 2-3 choices, they will usually act.

[Prashun Patel]

When I was considering my current saw, I was advised on good authority that in fact the G0636 IS squarely aimed at the Italian saws. So an apples to apples comparison would be fair.

A blanket denegration is not fair.

[liam c murphy]

I purchased a G0636XB in July of 2018. I was initially planning on purchasing a MM20. However, there weren’t any available at the time. I own a 16” Grizzly Jointer and a 20” Grizzly planer. I’m happy with both of those tools. So, I felt comfortable purchasing the G0636XB. After 4 months of ownership, I’m still happy.

[Van Huskey]

When I took marketing in college, I learned that when people are given too many choices, they won't choose but if only given 2-3 choices, they will usually act.

For every textbook rule, there is an entire tome of real-world caveats. The most profitable (per vehicle) car manufacturer in the world is Porsche. Porsche offers 20 distinct models of the venerable 911 and pages of options for each one.

The G0636 and G0701 are excellent saws and it is unlikely someone would be unhappy with them unless they didn't buy enough saw for their needs. IMO they are not the best new saws in their class but the better saws cost more. There is usually a reason a company benchmarks another product and to come full circle it is the reason so many sports car manufacturers benchmark the 911.

[John TenEyck]

I've had a G0636X for a little over 2 years now. At the time I bought it it was substantially cheaper than a MM16, around $2900 to my door. Shipping was fast; I got it 3 days after I placed my order, and it arrived without damage. The machine weighs around 650 lbs and is very, very solid and stiff. The cast iron wheels are pretty massive. The fence is far better than what MM offered at the time, though I don't use it much since I built a stand alone tall resaw fence. The saw arrived in near perfect setup, I don't recall having to adjust anything beyond resetting the guides for a new blade and putting the fence together. I use this BS primarily for resawing thick stock and cutting veneer. I keep a Woodmaster CT on it most of the time. The saw has no trouble putting a measured 27K psi on a 1" blade at the factory spring setting, so it can go much higher if asked because the saw is rated for a 1-3/8" blade. With a sharp blade it cuts 12" hardwood as fast as you can push it through. I'm quite sure anyone who decides to purchase the G0636X or other variant will be very happy with the saw. Grizzly may not have the image of MM or the other Italian saws but this saw gives up nothing in performance.

John

[Andy Cover]

I am planning a trip to Springfield Mo in the next couple weeks and i will probably bring a G0636X home with me. I will also be running up to KC to pick up a Felder sliding table saw that I purchased. Merry Christmas to me!!

[John Sincerbeaux]

For every textbook rule, there is an entire tome of real-world caveats. The most profitable (per vehicle) car manufacturer in the world is Porsche. Porsche offers 20 distinct models of the venerable 911 and pages of options for each one.

The G0636 and G0701 are excellent saws and it is unlikely someone would be unhappy with them unless they didn't buy enough saw for their needs. IMO they are not the best new saws in their class but the better saws cost more. There is usually a reason a company benchmarks another product and to come full circle it is the reason so many sports car manufacturers benchmark the 911.

OFF TOPIC ALERT:
Ferrari kills Porsche in profit per car. Ferrari-$80K vs. Porsche-$17.5K.

[Van Huskey]

OFF TOPIC ALERT:
Ferrari kills Porsche in profit per car. Ferrari-$80K vs. Porsche-$17.5K.

The vast gulf between the two is primarily the difference in corporate structure/accounting between the two companies and what is off book for Ferrari and what is on book for Porsche, but that is a gear head or accountant discussion for another forum.


More on topic, if one is interested in comparing the SCM MM/Formula saws to the 636/701 saws the first places to look is the spine and the guides.

[John TenEyck]

More on topic, if one is interested in comparing the SCM MM/Formula saws to the 636/701 saws the first places to look is the spine and the guides.

Here's what I measured on my G0636X. The spine is made of two box beams. I measured the thickness of the steel used in the upper wheel housing at 4.5 mm thick including the paint, so the steel itself is probably closer to 4 mm. I'm guessing the same stock was used for the spine, but haven't pulled the on/off switch box to confirm. The spine is 6-3/4" front to back and tapers from about 8" at the bottom to 7" at the top. I put a dial gage on the upper guide assembly and measured 0.042" deflection from zero to 27K psi to the table on a 1", 0.035" blade. That seemed like a really high number to me, considering my little 14" Delta measures at 0.012" deflection with a 3/8" blade at 12K psi. I'd be interested in what others have measured on a MM16, and similar saws. I will note that the blade guides on my G0636X travel over their full range and remain parallel with the blade w/o need for adjustment.

The blade guides on the G0636X work well on the 1" blades I run on it. I'm not sure how well they would work on narrow blades though I've never tried one. To adjust the guide bearings you have to loosen a locking bolt and rotate the bearing cam shaft, then tighten the locking bolt. Grizzly supplies the wrench needed which I thought was a nice touch. Adjusting the bearings isn't hard and takes a couple of minutes top and bottom. I've had no issues with the bearings in 2 years and I've cut a lot more wood with it than most hobbyists would, including many hundreds of square feet of veneer.

The lower guides sit quite a bit below the table. I think they did this so that the dust collection port can remove the sawdust before it gets to the guides, but that's just a guess. In my mind it would be better if the guides were right up under the table, as close as possible w/o interfering with the table tilt feature. That said, to do that w/o issue I think the lower guides would have to use something other than bearings to avoid gumming up with sawdust and you'd likely have to use a different dust collection approach than the simple (and effective) system now used. I've never noticed the blade to suffer from unwanted deflection or drift, even when cutting 12" thick stock, so the saw hasn't suffered in performance with the guides where they now are.

With respect to dust collection, the G0636X has two 4" dust ports, one just under the table on the right side and the other on the back in the lower left corner of the lower wheel housing. With maybe 600 - 700 cfm from my DC through those two 4" hoses to a 6" trunk it has no trouble collecting the sawdust, even when cutting 12" and thicker stock.

Who wants to offer up some comparative details and observations on a saw in the same size range?

John

[Chuck Saunders]

I put the 636 into service at our Guild shop 2 years ago (our shop is open 260hrs a month for our 800+ members, it gets used) . I compared it to the MM16. For the money I went with the 636. You can see the difference in the specs compared to the other saws in Grizzly's line. I have a 513x2 at home and there is no comparison (and I like my 513x2). The saw has performed admirably used exclusively as a resaw. My only wish was that it was 3 phase.
Chuck

[Van Huskey]

Here's what I measured on my G0636X. The spine is made of two box beams. I measured the thickness of the steel used in the upper wheel housing at 4.5 mm thick including the paint, so the steel itself is probably closer to 4 mm. I'm guessing the same stock was used for the spine, but haven't pulled the on/off switch box to confirm. The spine is 6-3/4" front to back and tapers from about 8" at the bottom to 7" at the top. I put a dial gage on the upper guide assembly and measured 0.042" deflection from zero to 27K psi to the table on a 1", 0.035" blade. That seemed like a really high number to me, considering my little 14" Delta measures at 0.012" deflection with a 3/8" blade at 12K psi. I'd be interested in what others have measured on a MM16, and similar saws. I will note that the blade guides on my G0636X travel over their full range and remain parallel with the blade w/o need for adjustment.



Someone PMed me asking about the thickness of the MM/Formula steel and referenced this thread which apparently I had missed this post.

The MM16 and MM20 both use a triple boxed beam made of 5mm steel. The MM16 depth is 8" from the table to the bottom of the door and is 6" at the table down to 4 1/2" at the bottom of the top door. These numbers are difficult to compare and someone would have to have the exact construction details to compare their rigidity. I do not have a comparable cross-section blade to compare on the MM16 but I keep a 1" Trimaster in .035" on the MM20. So assuming the cross section is equal (you would have to add into the calculations and difference in the front to back cross section measured from the back of the band to the closest gullets which will vary with a VTPI blade like a Trimaster) the deflection measured in the same way at 30k psi is .022".

Unfortunately, none of this is likely to be remotely apples to apples since we don't have a direct comparison in the construction of the beams, possible blade differences, differences in strain, differences in the instrument and methods used to obtain strain and the fact my deflection numbers are from a bigger saw.