Cabinetry install on concrete floor

[Dave Sims]

The project is finishing off a basement with a media built-in, adding a bar area and wrapping 4 metal posts with decorative wood columns/trim work. I will be doing the work for a relative and they will be having a contractor seal, insulate, frame and drywall the space

1. What is the best way to install cabinets, bookcases, etc over the concrete? I was thinking of either a pressure treated base for all the cabs and bookcases or perhaps vapor barrier like used under laminate flooring.

2. The basment will be framed with metal studs. I have never tried to anchor a buit-in to metal studs. Do I need a special fastner or will the typical pan head/pocket screw style screw work well?

Thanks.

[Erik Christensen]

Unless I was sure there was no chance of moisture I would use those plastic adjustable legs made for cabinets. I have them for all my shop cabs and they handle some pretty big loads with zero problems. Plus the toe kick just clips on to the legs so if things do get wet you can remove it to let things dry out.

re metal studs - never hung anything on them - sorry

[Chris Padilla]

What flooring will be used? It sounds like there will be nothing but concrete under foot? Are they trying to maintain maximum height in the basement?

[Paul Incognito]

Shims used to level the cabs should be enough to isolate them from the concrete floor. If the basement floods this won't be enough, though.
I always install wood blocking to metal studs that will get cabinets hung from them. Screws will pull out of the thin gauge metal. If all of the cabinets will sit on the floor, this may not be necessary, but I do it anyway.
Hope this helps,
Paul

[Dave Sims]

I think they mentioned carpeting the floor. I like the idea of getting the cabinetry off the floor with legs of some sort. Either way, think I should prime/seal the bottoms? The media unit will have base cabinets with uppers that sit on them. All of the load would transfer to the floor. I hope the metal studs will be strong enough to suck the cabinets in for a tight fit against the wall. Maybe I should ask them to use wooden studs in the walls with cabinetry. I would be nervous about mounting a tv on a wall with metal studs for sure.

thanks,
Dave

[Peter Quinn]

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5217

A few different manufacturers make something like this, these are just the first link I clicked in google search, so prices may vary. Something like this would keep the organic matter (ie plywood) safely off the concrete. There are clips that attach to the toe kicks so they are removable, they just snap on to the legs. Its a nice idea should there ever be a moisture problem in this basement. There should be a moisture barrier, but it makes more sense as part of the floor system, and there should be something on the floor if the space is to be truly finished. Why bother tackling the walls and putting in built in cabinetry and not handle the floor? To each his own, but I suppose the concrete seal will add something to the process, as will a good dehumidifier with a condensate pump plumbed in. In lieu of a continuous moisture barrier I'd probably paint the bottom of the cabs with a good paint for the purpose.

[johnny means]

If moisture is that big a threat this project needs to be rethought. If moisture is a problem with the cabinets, they are not going to be saved when the drywall and flooring have to be torn out for mold treatment. If the basement is fit for finishin, you shouldn't need to do anything special for the cabinet install.

[Jim Matthews]

I would want to have some sort of base to set these on.
Most concrete floors aren't particularly level, and you'll need to tie the cabinets to something solid.

If you build a frame it could be set in place with construction adhesive, and the cabinets anchored to it.
Otherwise, one spirited game of ping-pong and everything comes down...
(DAMHIKT)

[scott vroom]

I agree with Johnny...if you're worried about moisture wicking into the cabinets then the basement isn't fit for finishing. Is there a moisture problem? How was the basement constructed? Are there moisture barriers in the concrete walls/floor? Is there adequate exterior ground drainage designed into the job site? It's difficult to give an opinion on the cabinets without understanding the bigger picture.

In any case, I wouldn't consider a below-grade basement project without first performing a moisture test on the slab/walls. One test I've done in the past for on-grade slabs is to tape a large sheet of 6 mil poly on the slab for a week or so during the wet season to check for moisture buildup; this test can be augmented with a humidity sensor. If you want to be more precise, there are instruments available that can be inserted into holes drilled in the slab to test for moisture content.

[Jeff Duncan]

Here's my two cents for what they're worth. Cabinets can be mounted to concrete, I do it all the time. However your specific situation is a basement which brings a lot of factors into play. I would only install them after flooring is going down. You mentioned carpeting but are they planning on laying it directly on the concrete, or on plywood? I also wouldn't use much pressure treated materials inside of a home unless you had a way to seal them. Without knowing all the details it's hard to recommend a specific solution, though I do think the plastic leveling feet could eliminate a lot of the potential problems.

As for attaching the cabinets to metal studs.....be careful! A lot of contractors use the cheaper thin gauge studs which I wouldn't trust to hold much more than a picture frame. Since your at the beginning of the project you need to specify blocking be installed wherever you need to hang your cabinets. It's a cheap and efficient way to hang your cabinets safely. And as a benefit makes your installation infinitely easier since you won't have to worry about centering screws to studs! I spec this out all the time for high rise buildings in the city since steel studs are much more finicky about supporting fasteners and weight than their wood counterparts!

good luck,
JeffD

[Dave Sims]

Thanks for all the input.

I will ask them to insist on wooden studs on the walls where cabs are going to be installed. I was thinking of anchoring two pressure treated 2x4s flat on the concrete spanning the length of the units. Shimming the cabs as needed and painting the bottoms.

The house is several years old. The basement has always been dry.

[Jeff Duncan]

I would stick with blocking personally, much easier for your installation....but that's just me;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Kevin Bourque]

Get the entire basement studded in metal, then place wood studs along side the metal studs in the area where the cabinets are going to be hung. Screw the wood and metal studs together with a few drywall screws. The metal studs keep the wood studs from bending and twisting, plus it makes the whole wall stronger.

[Dave Sims]

Good call Kevin. Will do.

I will get some more info on the flooring this weekend.

I think I have most of my issues addressed. I still need a solid game plan for anchoring trim around the 4 metal poles. Any ideas?

[Kevin Bourque]

Good call Kevin. Will do.

I will get some more info on the flooring this weekend.

I think I have most of my issues addressed. I still need a solid game plan for anchoring trim around the 4 metal poles. Any ideas?

I've done this hundreds of times.

Most poles are 4". I take (2) 2x4 metal studs and I glue them to the pole, "cup in" if you know what I mean, with construction adhesive. I hold them in place with duct tape. Then I screw drywall strips to them on all 4 sides. Then I'll glue and nail trim to the bottom. I also use rounded corner bead to give them a softer look.

[Roy Turbett]

Check out EZ-Level.com. They make a system that lifts and levels cabinets so water can flow underneath the cabinet in case of a flood. I'd also consider having the concrete floor stained and finished. Makes for a very attractive finish that withstands moisture too.

[Dave Sims]

You've got that down to a science...sounds like I can't go wrong with that tried and trusted method. thanks =)

[Dave Sims]

Ez-level looks very helpful. My only concern is that the video says it can only lift a cab 1/8" off the ground.

[james bell]

I have made about ten cabinets and put them on a 2x4 base. I put a 45 block in top of each corner, then 2 1/2 swivel casters into the 45's. I believe 2 1/2, but they stood 1/2 proud of the base. Cabinets heavy enough not to move, but can be move for cleaning and/or rearranging the shop.

[Dave Sims]

Tell me what you guys think. I found this on a contractortalk.com:


Basement Column Wrap Recipe:

1) Use 1x6 material to build a three-sided, "u-shaped" box to slide around column. Keep the height of this box about 3/8" in short of the floor to ceiling height. You can either chase the butts or miter the edges. Unless you have a very good TS, I do not recomend mitering because it's hard to make an 8' long perfect bevel on a small TS.
2) Slide the three-sided box around column. Attach fourth side.
3) The wrap is now loose around the column, but obviously cannot come off.
4) Shim the bottom (or top) of the wrap to make plumb and square. Shim it tight so it won't move.
5) drill 8 3/8" holes in the wrap. One on each side of the wrap 2" down from top and 2" up from bottom.
6) Use NON-expanding foam and stick the hose into each hole and shoot.
7)Trim top with crown and bottom with base.

You are done.

You can make all sorts of cool varations with rails and stiles, panel molding, etc.

Kind of like "Pimp your Column"