A hand saw made for or by Sickels & Nutting Co, Iowa?

[Kim Malmberg]

Here's an interesting saw. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/sets/72157632596042223/) This is a full length crosscut saw with a plate length of 26 1/4 inches. The plate height at the handle end is 1/2 inches and about 2 1/2 at the toe. The saw is a very slight skew back with a partially worn and faint but mostly intact etch. The saw is filed 8 PPI.

The etch reads
THE
CELEBRATED
LONDON SPRING STEEL SAW
NO 1962
TRADE MARK
(arrow penetrating a crescent moon)
S & N CO
PATENT GROUND
WARRANTED
SICK…(illegible) NUTTING Co.

Having browsed the Internet, it is clear that there once was a wholesale hardware company in Davenport, Iowa named Sickels, Preston & Nutting Co.
I have not been able to find out if they made hand saws, but there's something about this saw that tells me it might have been made by someone else. The saw has the Warran & Ted medallion with an eagle, which would seem odd if the company wanted to market their own saws.

Also, although the saw has it's oddities, the handle design is very much a Atkins design, with the rounded notch at the top of the handle and the wheat carving pattern similar to that of several Atkins models.

What is perplexing is that the handle is rather small and hence only attached with four nuts. The handle is about the same size as a 24-inch panel saw. The medallion is also placed as the last of the four, a feature not too many makers used, but which appears on a few Atkins models (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/sets/72157629829704954/).

Now the interesting thing about the etch is that although there are several posts related to the Sickels, Preston & Nutting Co, this saw seems to have been made before Preston joined the company, of which I cannot find any information. Although the last line of the etch is partially illegible, there's not enough room for a Preston. Also the abbreviation "S & N CO" clearly demonstrates that the saw was made before Preston became a partner.

I believe that the crescent moon in the etch refers to the Crescent Warehouse District (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Warehouse_Historic_District) in Davenport, Iowa, where the S, P & N Co was located. The district has been added to the American National Register of Historic places.

There are a few posts at Swingleydev and TheOldToolsList regarding other saws with similar etches, but I haven't found any answers as of yet. The company is not listed in Ervin Schaeffer's book either, so I am assuming that whoever made this saw, it wasn't made by The Sickels & Nutting Co.

As far as age goes, I am not sure. It does have the Glover's patent nuts, but without a patent date, so I'm guessing early part of the 20th century.

But since I did add this post seeking knowledge I do have a question. Does anyone know if the S, P & N Co made hand saws and if not, does anyone have a clue about which saw maker actually made this saw?

Greetings from Finland,


Kim

[Mark Baldwin III]

Your saw looks very similar to one that I have been trying to find the origins of. Do you think you might be able to get the etch to show up in a picture? The only part of the etch on mine that I can make out is "Patent Ground." The rest of it is not clear at all, I can barely make out some shapes and a scroll.
On the placement of the medallion...only one other of my 4-nut saws has the medallion on the bottom, it is a Simmonds. Though I'm not saying that Atkins wouldn't have done the same on some theirs. Atkins saws are my personal favorite, but it can be hard to find information on them sometimes.

[Kim Malmberg]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reply. I haven't been able to capture the whole etch in one picture as I cleaned up the saw plate and the reflections from the saw plate forced me to take several captures of parts of the etch. But if you look at my pictures here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/sets/72157632596042223/with/8409992165/) and compare them to the contents of the etch, you ought to be able to determine the layout of my etch. Mind you, I have seen that in some cases the expression ""Celebrated London Spring Steel Saw" has been used on several saws together with eagles and stars, but endorsing other brands. In my case, there is only the crescent moon and arrow and some very small decorative curves. As far as Simonds goes, you're right of course. There are similarities between some Simonds handles and this one. Wiktor Kuc's pages (http://www.wkfinetools.com/cCorner/c_BrickhouseF/saws/Simonds/crescentM/crescentM.asp) shows a similar design. Interestingly, though probably only accidentally so, the saw on Kuc's pages also depicts a crescent moon.

[Jonathan McCullough]

You are not alone. I picked up one of these in pretty good nick at a flea market. At first I thought it might be a C.E. Jennings saw, but now I'm pretty sure it's really a Woodrough & McParlin No. 50 "Leader," based on the shape of the handle, how the roundovers on the grip are formed, the wheat carving, and the flashy etch. I know that W&M did hardware store saws because I have another example where they used a logotype that's nearly identical to one of their standard etches. My Sickles & Nutting is actually an excellent hand saw, and a testament to the fact that Warranted Superior medallions really have no bearing on quality. The steel is very hard, the taper grind is really well done, and it's got a lot of tension on the plate; very stiff and not prone to flopping or kinking. As I recall, my example lists a downtown NYC address. I'll try and dig it up and take pics, but it's sooooo cold outside, and I'm going on a trip soon. Here's some info (http://books.google.com/books?id=NNJNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA875&lpg=PA875&dq=sickels+%26+nutting&source=bl&ots=GS7CQlShSO&sig=iomROnAmTTv0iQR5y_njEvwk4fI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CzYBUbS4D5G50QGHkYG4Aw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sickels%20%26%20nutting&f=false) on Mr. Sickles in the meanwhile.

[Kim Malmberg]

I generally approach the Warran & Ted saws with a sense of anticipation. I haven't seen too many, but first of all they can be intriguing as they require some research before the maker or model can be determined. Also, they can be very good saws - fitted with lower price tags. And they can present you with interesting etches. But this is very interesting. Woodrough McParlin, yes I've heard of them but never seen one in the flesh. I'd love to see pictures of your saw, Jonathan. If you want to I'll send you some Finnish long johns.

[Kim Malmberg]

Do you think you might be able to get the etch to show up in a picture?

Yes, now I have a picture of the full etch. Forgive the poor lighting but it's dark in this country this time of year so out door shoots are impossible unless I quit my day job. Picture here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/8411771960/in/photostream).

[Jonathan McCullough]

Here (http://s575.beta.photobucket.com/user/Jonathryn/library/Sickels%20and%20Nutting%20Saw) you go. Need to clean this one up some more but it's a really nice saw. Looks to be a panel (24") size. How in the world are you getting old American saws in Finland? If I remember correctly, you also have a nice old Atkins hanging around.

[Kim Malmberg]

Excellent. Many thanks Jonathan. Are you seriously implying I am the proud owner of a Woodrough McParlin no 50? Blimey. I didn't expect that although I liked the saw when I spotted it on e-b-a-y. This site which name cannot be uttered is the source for most of my hand tools, namely the UK site as shipping costs are lower. As you rightly anticipate there aren't too many American hand tools on the Finnish second hand market. The told I find are generally English made Stanley's or Sandvik saws, but I have made some nice finds here as well. Here's an Atkins no 2 tenon saw (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/sets/72157632172523465/) in very good shape that was still shop sharp when I found it. The Atkins are really my favorite saws. I have a collection of images here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/collections/72157632169022907/).

[Jonathan McCullough]

Yes, Atkins had very nice steel. Those Sandviks are also excellent with very carboniferous-seeming steel and good tempering. The Sickels & Nutting/ Woodrough & McParlin/ possibly C.E. Jennings saw I have has a certain oil-on-water peacock-blue sheen you see on old chisels labeled "cast steel." Excellent stuff. The number on mine is 1902 by the way--maybe the approximate date of manufacture? If so, W&M had already been rolled up into the National Saw Co. Doesn't affect use though! And regardless who made it, it's a great plate with a comfy handle. Here (http://www.wkfinetools.com/cCorner/c_BrickhouseF/saws/ceJennings/ceJennings-2.asp)'s another point of reference, but C.E. Jennings's graphic arts department didn't produce etchings as prolix and impressive as W&M's. Jennings also used a very distinctive script for the customary "declaration of superlatives" usually found to the right of the logotype. For example, Henry Disston's "For Beauty, Finish, and Utility, This Saw cannot be Excelled." /s/ Henry Disston. I forget Jennings's declaration, but doubtless it's fairly popping with confidence. They made a lot of very nice saws under the "Fulton" brand sold by Sears Roebuck. Some of the most comfortable handles ever.

[Kim Malmberg]

Thanks again Jonathan. And thanks especially for forcing me to actually read my etch. It is a model 1902 just as you say, and not a 1962. Why do the stains always obscure the most important parts of the saws? And the saw can either be a W&M or a C.E. Jennings. Either way it's a first for myself and I am thrilled. And we seem to have identical saws. That's very nice to know.

[Dan Carroll]

I have to say that your saw looks a great deal like a Dissten No-16 I have; handle, nut placement etc. Could you have a hardware store version of a No-16? The No-16 used 'london spring steel' and was on the higher end of Dissten's line at the turn of the last century. Just an observation.

Dan Carroll

[Kim Malmberg]

Hi Dan,
I really can't tell. My saw does appear identical to Jonathan's. But you're right about the handle design on the Disston no. 16. But since we know that they all emulated each other and the smaller companies wanted their saw to look like Disstons I guess it would be logical to se various saws from various makers with almost identical handle designs. What differentiates my saw from the Disston no. 16 is the absence of a nib. And didn't Disston use either a circle or the keystone in their Warranted medallions?
But going back to my saw, Jonathan's absolutely right about this being a very good saw. I've just been down in my workshop and resharpened the saw. I do have to do some small alterations, but having filed it with sloping gullets and not even having set it, boy does this saw provide good feedback. It hums it's way through the wood. Mind you, I only have a small piece of Scandinavian pine, but in comparison to an Atkins no 65 and a Disston no 12 (both of which really are in need of better dental care), this saw is a winner. It's not just that it's freshly sharpened, it's the overall feedback that I really like.

[Kees Heiden]

Hi Kim,

I see you are from Finland and ordering from the UK. How do you handle postage of these saws? I though the Royal Mail only allows packages up to 60cm in length.

[Dan Carroll]

Disston also used an eagle in their WS madellions. Also alot of the Harvey Pearce works production after Disston took over had WS madellions with an eagle. And all the eagle looked a great deal alike, so that really can not be tell you much.

[Kim Malmberg]

Hi Kim,

I see you are from Finland and ordering from the UK. How do you handle postage of these saws? I though the Royal Mail only allows packages up to 60cm in length.

Hi Kees,
Sad to say I don't order saws of that length from the UK anymore, unless the seller agrees to remove the handle - :-) - which is a risky business if the seller know little or nothing about hand saws. But you're right, its become too difficult and too expensive.

[Mark Baldwin III]

Yes, now I have a picture of the full etch. Forgive the poor lighting but it's dark in this country this time of year so out door shoots are impossible unless I quit my day job. Picture here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/8411771960/in/photostream).
Thanks for the pic. It looks like our etches are different. The one on my saw has a lot more decorative flourish to it, and the location of "patent ground" is different.. There's a chance they are the same maker, and that will give me a start on finding some more information.
And people ask why I never leave the house :)