Shop Vac versus Festool Dust Extractor

[William C Rogers]

I have been considering getting the Festool dust extractor. However I am wondering what great advantage Festool would be over putting a hepa filter on my shop vac, with a drywall collection bag and running a dust deputy in front of that? Am I missing something important? Cost would be much less and both just vacuum and filter. Right?

[Peter Kuhlman]

Your idea will work. The advantage - longer term - is that the Festool machines have motors designed for continuous run and have additional cooling for the motor that does not rely on the dust laden air. The motors for the traditional "shop-vacs" while quite powerful in the larger units are just not near as durable in my experience - and dang they are LOUD!!!

The Festool unit has variable speed which can be really useful for sanding as slowing it down lets the sander glide much easier.
The Festool unit has a top surface that can be used for storing stuff - Systainers, hose garage, etc.
The Festool unit works with the boom arm - on the CT22/26 and larger units - and that boom arm is really nice to use in a shop.
The Festool unit uses multi stage filtering with the bag, primary filters, Hepa filters and carries the required Hepa approval for remodeling - lead abatement.
The Festool unit utilizes the anti-static hoses to prevent shocks, dust cling. The "shop-vac" is not designed to be conductive so an anti-static hose doesn't work.
There are other differences but those are the major ones that come to mind right now.

I have a big Home Depot vac that I keep for really nasty cleanup - like water pickup. I don't like to subject my expensive vac to that usage.

Another quality machine is the Fein Turbo II. Great suction, great motor, somewhat lower price. Doesn't have all the system advantages of the Festool due to the shape.

[Rod Sheridan]

The main difference is that the Festool is a HEPA vacuum, adding a HEPA filter to a regular vacuum does not result in a HEPA vacuum.............Rod.

[Jeff Monson]

Besides the points that Peter and Rod pointed out. I like to take my tools to various work sites also, the Festool vac excels very well in portability also. Not sure if that is important to you, but for me its a really nice feature.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

One thing I noticed when my CT26 got here is the noticeable build quality differences. It the little things that all add up to a big deal. I actually look forward to using it, as weird as that is. It also has more power than my Ridgid vac, by a significant amount. Don't think anybody has mentioned that power switching that turns that vacuum on when a tool that is plugged into it is, then back off 15 seconds or so after the tool is shutdown.

[glenn bradley]

Like many things . . it depends on what you do and how you do it. Better vacs like the Festools, Feins and their cousins have better motors, filtering and cool features (anti-static hose, better wheels, higher quality build overall) built in. These vacs also come with a lot more add-on accessories than the lowly shop vac. If you just need something to hookup to your sanders, routers and such that can also be used for general shop clean up, a Clean Stream in a Ridgid or a Shop-Vac will do fine.

I have a couple of Ridgid vacs with Clean Stream filters and Dust Deputy setups. The one vac is going on 9 years of service without a wrinkle. This may be because I went with better filtering right off the bat which prevents the vac from choking itself with clogs. I would not want to haul either rig around to jobs although I have hauled them indoors for dirty jobs around the house.

[William C Rogers]

Thanks for the feedback. I am not underrating the Festool as it is a great machine. Some things I had considered and some I did not.
I did not consider the boom.
I did not consider the anti-static hose.
Portability is not an issue as it will stay in the shop as I do no production work.
I did consider it would not be compact.
I do realize there is a considerable quality, noise and motor difference.
I did consider variable speed, but did think of adjusting the flow, but I am not sure if cfm relates to suction power.
I did consider the on/off and would use a Ivac.

I do not understand Rod's statement that adding a hepa filter does not make it a hepa vacuum. In my mind the final exhaust air is what is filtered and if it must pass a filter rated 99.97 efficient, then it is a hepa vacuum. May not last as long as the filter in the Festool or Fein.

So the cost to convert my shop vac would be
$20 hepa filter
$15 bag filter
$40 Dust Deputy
$50 Ivac

around a $125 as I have many shop vacs.

With the Festool being around $575 is the extras worth $450 more.

Bill

[Peter Kuhlman]

The HEPA rating gets ugly if you are in business to do remodeling and such. The new OSHA regulations (maybe EPA) are very strict when working on older homes that have the potential to have lead based paint and asbestos. The dust collector has to be certified for that usage and just having a HEPA filter is not enough. There are many other rules that come into play also.

For personal usage you don't have to abide by the regs.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

With the Festool being around $575 is the extras worth $450 more.

Bill

Yes, for many of us it most definitely is.

[Mike Henderson]

With the Festool being around $575 is the extras worth $450 more.

Bill
It wasn't worth it to me. I use a Ridgid vac which is fairly quiet, an ivac and a "router speed control" to slow it down when I need to. I've used Festool vacs and my set up is just as good as long as I don't need portability - which I don't.

Save the money and use it for something else. Festool shines when you use the tools at a client's home. For in shop use they don't shine as well compared to alternatives.

Mike

[Mike Heidrick]

Does Hepa cert mean much when you have sawdust in your shop?

[Jim German]

A Hepa filter on a shop vac wouldn't meet a full HEPA rating due to the amount of air that bypasses around the filter.

[Stew Hagerty]

Yes, for many of us it most definitely is.

No offence Steve, but I would counter that statement with this one:

No, for many of us it most definately is not.

Look, I'm a hobbiest not a professional. I do have dust collection, it's a HF with a garbage can cyclone in front of it and a Wynn Nano filter on top of it. I also have ambient air filtration. I use a reducer and use my DC when I need to plug in my sander or router. You know what, It works just fine. Oh, it's not perfect but then neither am I. I would much rather take that extra $450 and use it to buy some tool that I have wanted for a long time (believe me, it's a long list), or to put towards upgrading one of my major tools at some point. Now, I'm not saying that Festool isn't worth the price when compared to other portable vac systems, it may very well be. And, if I did woodworking for a living, I may very well buy one. I understand every single one of William's points, and you know what... I think they make perfect sense. I think too many times on this, and other similar sites, I see people recommend for people to spend the extra money on Festool without taking into consideration that not every woodworker NEEDS to have Festool. I don't have a shop vac at all! I don't NEED one. Maybe it's a status thing. Look at me I own Festool. I don't know, and I don't care. What I have works for me, and it certainly didn't cost $575. In fact, my whole DC system didn't cost $575!

William, here is my advice: If you can justify to yourself that spending almost 5 times as much is something you just have to do, or if you are a professional (or plan to be in the near future), or if you are independently wealthy, then by all means buy the Festool. If you aren't, then don't.

Sorry for the tirade and I appologize in advance to all of you Festool aficionados that are about to lambast me for my blasphemy.

[Erik Christensen]

Stew - I most emphatically disagree with you but would be the last to lambast you as you have expressed a personal opinion. It was well thought out, rational and supported by facts. The great thing about a free society is we all can make choices that are 'right' for us.

So here is my take on Festool. Do I NEED any of the festool tools I have - no. I am a hobbiest. I do this for fun. I have found over the decades that great tools (Festool, Lie Neilsen, etc) are more FUN for me to use - so that is why I own them. Period - end of story. I can turn out a better quality of work and enjoy it more with great tools. Those of you who can (and do) turn out fine furniture with limited tools have my respect & admiration but that is not for me.

When somebody asks this forum "is XXXX worth the $$$" there will be replies both pro & con with rationale for their opinion. Each questioner needs to take the responses and compare them against their own value system to decide what to do.

The only thing I thought a bit of a low blow was the swipe about status. Of the dozens of people who have seen my shop only one was a real WW'er who had any clue as to what they were looking at.. all the rest you get a glazed look and "that's nice". So if status was my motivation I would be better off with a Porche 911 in the driveway than a couple of grand in green tools nobody sees.

Oh and using a high-volume low-suction-head HF DC with reducer for sanding is not going to give you the air quality in your shop that a Festool vac/sander combo would - that's just a plain fact. So to me impacting my health to save a few bucks is not a good choice but you are certainly free to choose otherwise.

happy WW'ing bro

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew - I most emphatically disagree with you but would be the last to lambast you as you have expressed a personal opinion. It was well thought out, rational and supported by facts. The great thing about a free society is we all can make choices that are 'right' for us.

So here is my take on Festool. Do I NEED any of the festool tools I have - no. I am a hobbiest. I do this for fun. I have found over the decades that great tools (Festool, Lie Neilsen, etc) are more FUN for me to use - so that is why I own them. Period - end of story. I can turn out a better quality of work and enjoy it more with great tools. Those of you who can (and do) turn out fine furniture with limited tools have my respect & admiration but that is not for me.

When somebody asks this forum "is XXXX worth the $$$" there will be replies both pro & con with rationale for their opinion. Each questioner needs to take the responses and compare them against their own value system to decide what to do.

The only thing I thought a bit of a low blow was the swipe about status. Of the dozens of people who have seen my shop only one was a real WW'er who had any clue as to what they were looking at.. all the rest you get a glazed look and "that's nice". So if status was my motivation I would be better off with a Porche 911 in the driveway than a couple of grand in green tools nobody sees.

Oh and using a high-volume low-suction-head HF DC with reducer for sanding is not going to give you the air quality in your shop that a Festool vac/sander combo would - that's just a plain fact. So to me impacting my health to save a few bucks is not a good choice but you are certainly free to choose otherwise.

happy WW'ing bro

Eric, I couldn't agree with you more about everyone expressing their own opinion. That is why I stated that my Spiel was a counter argument.
As for the status, comment... Yeah it might have been a bit low, but on the other hand there are always some people who have to get the latest and greatest. You know... The Joneses (or is it the people keeping up with them? whatever, you get my point). My stating it was simply part of tossing out possible reasons for buying and not buying. Between myself and the proponents of Festool, we had covered nearly every other possible reason.

As for my air quality... I am permanently disabled, in a wheelchair, and with respiratory problems. Trust me, if I can stand work out thereat all, then it's not very bad. I can't tell you how many shops I have tried to be in and couldn't stand it. Including more than one that had lots of Festool equipment. Now I'm sure that the Festool would collect more of the finer dust than my DC system does. But if, between my DC and my ambient cleaner, I can saw, plane, chop, and sand without going into bronchial shutdown then I don't NEED one.

By the way... I'll take a Porsche too. :D

[Ron Kanter]

Everyone must decide for him/herself based on their priorities and finances.
Having said that I have two additional thoughts.
A Stradivarius violin costs millions. Is it hundreds of times better sounding or playing than a lesser known name. Probably not,but some musicians can appreciate and enjoy it even if the audience doesn't have a clue or can't here it among a full orchestra.
I have never regretted buying the best tool I could afford. I have often wasted money by "saving" money on a lesser quality tool that the proved less than satisfactory or I outgrew as my skills increased.

[Kevin Gagne]

Simple answer is yes a Festool, or any high end dust extractor is much better than a shop vac for all the reasons mentioned above. Can you make a shop vac better buy adding components to it, yes you can. Will those changes make a shop vac as good as a high end dust extractor, no it won't. For some people a shop vac with the modifications will be adequate for them. I used a setup like this for many years. Then I bought a Festool dust extractor (and other Festools to go with it) and definitely notice a difference. The quality and features don't compare with the cheaper equipment and tools. Now if people can't afford them I understand that but saying they are overpriced and not worth it I have to disagree with that. I have never been disappointed with any Festool purchase I have made. If I was not happy I have 30 days to return it with no questions asked for a full refund.

[Stew Hagerty]

Simple answer is yes a Festool, or any high end dust extractor is much better than a shop vac for all the reasons mentioned above. Can you make a shop vac better buy adding components to it, yes you can. Will those changes make a shop vac as good as a high end dust extractor, no it won't. For some people a shop vac with the modifications will be adequate for them. I used a setup like this for many years. Then I bought a Festool dust extractor (and other Festools to go with it) and definitely notice a difference. The quality and features don't compare with the cheaper equipment and tools. Now if people can't afford them I understand that but saying they are overpriced and not worth it I have to disagree with that. I have never been disappointed with any Festool purchase I have made. If I was not happy I have 30 days to return it with no questions asked for a full refund.

Kevin, I never said that Festool wasn't worth the price. In fact I said, " Now, I'm not saying that Festool isn't worth the price when compared to other portable vac systems, it may very well be." What I was saying is that it may not be worth the extra amount for everyone. As you said, for some people simple shop vacs and/or modified shop vacs are prefectly fine. Whether or not they are overpriced depends on the person buying or not buying one.

What I was attempting to do was to simply offer a counterpoint to all of the people that were recommending Festool. William was asking for advice and I was offering my mine, which happened to be diametrically opposed to most of those who preceded me.

I am definately not a person that shuns the higher priced woodworking items. I happen to collect Woodpeckers products. I like them for their accuracy, durability, and the fact that they are made in the USA. Is their 12" Try Square ($99) or 6" Speed Square ($60) more expensive than their counterparts from Sears at $7.19 and $8.09 respectively. Um... Yeah. Are they more accurate and more durable? Absolutely. Are the Sears tools made in the USA? Not hardly. Are the Woodpeckers tools worth the extra $82 or $52? Well, I happen to think they are. Besides the Woodpeckers tools come with a really cool french fitted block for wall mounting:

252414


I also happen to like Lee Valley tools. Their #4 smoothing plane is definately more than one of the new English made Stanley's or for that matter, one of the vintage ones (although I have a couple of those as well).

So, I am not trying to say not to buy Festool, or any other tool, because it's priced higher than another regardless of the differential. I was simply offering my personal opinion based on my experience after seeing that most of the responders to William's question were recommending the Festool product.

[Peter Aeschliman]

As most have stated, the "is it worth the extra money" question should be considered rhetorical. Only the person asking that question can answer it based on the combination of their own needs and means.

People often say you should buy the best tool you can afford. To me, this is also somewhat of a pointless mantra. I can "afford" a lot of things, but that doesn't mean it always makes sense to spend the extra money. Just about everything is on a spectrum.

If I have $1,000 to spend and a list of tools I'd like to buy in order of priority, would I spend all $1,000 on the first tool on the list so that I can buy the best tool I can afford? No way. Especially if I "need" all of the tools on that list to do the work I want to do.

Life is, in large part, about trade-offs. So to the OP- the best you can do is gather the facts, look at your finances, look at your needs for this particular purchase decision, and your other tool purchase priorities, and make the decision for yourself.

As for my take... I have a Sears shop vac with a HEPA filter.

PRO's:
It's plenty powerful for sanding and small electric tools
It's inexpensive

Cons:
Can't stand the hose- it's too heavy and inflexible. Sanding a big project with it attached causes a bit of muscle fatigue.
Its really stinking loud. Although I still wear ear protection while sanding, so I guess this doesn't matter much.
The filter clogs like crazy (need to supplement with a dust deputy or the like)
It's difficult to move around the shop. I've considered building a base with big inflated rubber tires on it so that it can roll over cords and stuff.

All said, I'd rather spend money upgrading other things. So I wear a dust mask.

Good luck!

[William C Rogers]

I wasn't trying to start anything. And as most determined I wasn't asking if Festool was worth the price. Not really knowing enough about dust extractors I was wondering what to consider between a shop vac with a hepa and the Festool or other brands. I got some very good responses. So, I plan on building two stationary shop vac "extractors" for dedicated small tools as bench sanders, band saws. To me it is a no brainer to use shop vac in that application. I need a third as a shop portable and honestly I will most likely do the shop vac to try it. I will build some type of base to make it somewhat compact and mobile. I will also look at improving the sealing areas. This will be a step up in dust collection and may not pass some test, but I believe I can get very close. No one said it won't work. I think the Festool is a great product, reliable, compact and ready to use out of the box and other advantages. Cost is a factor to me, but so is quality and ease. If the shop vac proves not reliable and hard to use I will buy a Festool or a Fein.

thanks for the responses

Bill

[Phil Thien]

Before I switched to a centrally-plumbed shop vac, I used my Ridgid WD1450 with a HEPA filter, a drywall bag, and a Fein hose. I got both the vac and the filter on sale, I probably have about $120 into the combination. The hose was $25 at a local Fein dealer. So maybe about $150 into the entire kit. Later I also purchased a $20 1" hose made by Porter Cable. The 1" hose is designed to work with the Porter Cable ROS and biscuit jointer.

The vac isn't variable speed, but I never really needed it to be. The PC ROS doesn't suck-down to whatever I'm sanding like some other sanders apparently do.

I don't doubt the Festools are extremely nice. I just wouldn't be able to justify the price given the gear I've already got.

I do know the Festool and Fein units are quieter, though. The Ridgid WD1450 is supposed to be their quiet model. And compared to older models, it really is. But it isn't as quiet as a Fein or Festool.

[Kevin Gagne]

Since the OP was considering a Festool I would assume that cost wasn't an issue and that they were looking to learn about the differences between it and a shop vac and understand why it cost more. All of the differences have been pointed out by the various posts. Whether or not you agree with the price it is very clear that there are some pretty big differences between the two. The OP needs to decide if these differences justify the price difference. No one else can decide that for them.

Seems like every time someone mentions Festool on this forum that are people that just jump in and say they are overpriced and not worth the money regardless of whether or not they have ever used them. Just because you can't afford something doesn't make it overpriced and not worth it. There is definitely a difference between an inexpensive power tool and a high end power tool. There is a reason it costs more. Everyone is free to spend their money as they would like. I am tired of the constant negative comments that seem to always to appear on the forum regarding high end tools whether it be Festool or some other brand.

[Kevin Gagne]

Stew,

I wasn't referring to you with any of my comments. Just a general frustration that I have with any Festool post that ends up on this forum.

That is a great square. :)

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew,

I wasn't referring to you with any of my comments. Just a general frustration that I have with any Festool post that ends up on this forum.

That is a great square. :)

No problem Kevin. This is actually my first Festool thread, so I'm just a newbie. I would however like to respond to one thing you said. Just because I think something is overpriced and not worth it doesn't mean I can't afford it.

And yes it is a great square, I use it just about every time I'm out in the shop. This is what I call my Woodpecker Wall:

252441 Can you find all 13?

And I have many many more of their wonderful things.

[Steve Milito]

I find it highly unlikely that any amount of modification would make a shop vac perform as well as a real dust extractor after having owned several shop vacs, a Fein, and a Festool vac. Perhaps you can get it 'good enough' for your needs, but the dust extractors are just designed for a higher level performance and to be attached to a tool though a small hose.

[Jeff Monson]

No problem Kevin. This is actually my first Festool thread, so I'm just a newbie. I would however like to respond to one thing you said. Just because I think something is overpriced and not worth it doesn't mean I can't afford it.

And yes it is a great square, I use it just about every time I'm out in the shop. This is what I call my Woodpecker Wall:

252441 Can you find all 13?

And I have many many more of their wonderful things.

Holly woodpeckers Stew, you have some nice squares! I love the woodpeckers products also, yes they are pricey, but worth every penny IMO. I have the same opinion of Festool products also.

[Don Morris]

I'm a serious hobbiest on a fixed income. I would buy Lie Nielsen, Festool etc. all the time if I could. Can't. But don't tell me I haven't seen top quality work come out of shops from contractor saws and less than LN tools, etc. It's the wwer not the tool and accessories. Take a look at some of the beautiful antiques. They didn't have any of the modern stuff. The high end stuff makes sense if you can. I would if I could.

[Kevin Gagne]

I'm a serious hobbiest on a fixed income. I would buy Lie Nielsen, Festool etc. all the time if I could. Can't. But don't tell me I haven't seen top quality work come out of shops from contractor saws and less than LN tools, etc. It's the wwer not the tool and accessories. Take a look at some of the beautiful antiques. They didn't have any of the modern stuff. The high end stuff makes sense if you can. I would if I could.

Don, yes someone with lesser tools that is skilled can still make quality items. But for me anyways I have noticed that with some of the nicer tools that I have purchased my quality of work has improved. For example I can cut a full sheet of plywood much better on my track saw then I can on a table saw.

To some extent I would say that better tools can make a average woodworker better because they are getting better results as far as cutting or milling.

[Matt Meiser]

I've got three CT22's. One is for the house, replacing a "portable" shop vac we kept in the garage for about 8 years. My wife uttered the words "I love this vacuum." while using it when we were working on our kitchen remodel. That should tell you something there. One of my CT22's has a boom arm and Dust Deputy and lives near my bench but easily moves around as needed. The third lives under my miter saw.

At a minimum if I ever went back to a traditional shop vac (and I don't know why I would) I'd throw away any shop vac hose and buy a good hose, not the semi-flexible pipes they include. I briefly had a non-Antistatic Festool hose and it reminded me how nice the antistatic feature is.

The boom arm--to me if you want to sell someone on Festool, give them a sander and vac for a week and let them use it. The second week, add a boom arm. Bet they buy it all on the third. Sure you could make something. I bet by the time you engineer and reengineer the thing a few times to get the kinks worked out you won't save much.

Nice used CT22's seem to come up pretty regularly. I've bought 3 for $175-$250 excluding shipping and depending on accessories. The lowest one I bought online and when it arrived I felt wasn't as described and the $175 was a negotiated price reduction. I resold that one when I had the opportunity to do a 3-way deal that got me a nicer one for little cash. It was fully functional as intended, just not very pretty (and it was the one for the house so...) I really haven't read much about long-term issues with the CT series vacs and obviously don't have problem buying them myself. If you want to save money, buy a used one. Just keep in mind the cost of replacing the filters if needed (buy Hepa ones if you do) and buying a hose if one isn't included.

[Stew Hagerty]

Don, yes someone with lesser tools that is skilled can still make quality items. But for me anyways I have noticed that with some of the nicer tools that I have purchased my quality of work has improved. For example I can cut a full sheet of plywood much better on my track saw then I can on a table saw.

To some extent I would say that better tools can make a average woodworker better because they are getting better results as far as cutting or milling.

If I remember right, Shopsmith used to to say something like "the precision is in the machine" in their TV comercials.

[Jason Roehl]

I've used a non-Festool, certified HEPA shop vac. I'm not impressed. You have to use an overly-expensive (certified) bag that has a flap of tape to close the opening when you remove it from the vac, and a paper cover (looks like it would leak where the retainer ring causes it to wrinkle at the top) over the main filter. Other than that, it's a regular shop vac. I have a regular Shop Vac brand (the standard large one), and when I put in a HEPA filter (I don't see how dust could get around this thing--it's rubber gasketed at both ends and the retainer keeps it tight) and a drywall dust bag inside (also has a rubber gasket in the opening that fits snugly around the deflector just inside the hose opening), I can use an ROS to sand drywall without a mask and the air will be CLEAN. I did it once over hardwood flooring, and there was nothing on the floor when I was done, not even the ultra-fine dust.

If you can afford a Festool vac, knock yourself out. I probably could, but I don't see the need. I'd rather have a vac that I can abuse a bit more, and if I kill it, I'm only out $100, not $600. And, I've killed a few--but in almost 17 years, I still haven't spent $600. I also don't think it's that loud.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

No offence Steve, but I would counter that statement with this one:

No, for many of us it most definately is not.


Stew, none taken. I look away for a day and look what happened to this thread!

I noticed something interesting a while back. I started woodworking as a very broke youngster, and got by with whatever I could get. I did get a lot of time in the woodshop though. I spent all of December there one year, and look back at that point in my life as one of the best. Soon after, my career took off, but the new income came at the cost of shop time. Over the next ten years it became obvious that some of the get by for cheap solutions, like a Shopsmith, a Delta dust collector/spreader, a little tablesaw, etc, ended up using up my precious little bit of shop time more than actual woodworking did. Because of that, I upgraded many things.

I bet my path is not dissimilar from many of you. Now, I can afford any tool that I want, and am at a point in my professional career that I can pay other people to help get me woodshop time, I have very good tools that I can spend it with. I don't have to spend time fiddling with them to get the result I want, and that is priceless to me. Still hoping for a December in the shop again, but it's coming.

The question was, is a Festool vacuum worth the money? It can only be answered subjectively because the value of each tool is different to each of us, so I stick to my answer, to many of us, yes a Festool vac is worth every penny.

I can completely understand how someone else, because of time. money, interests, ambition, goals, or probably even blood type, would answer the question differently. That's perfectly fine, and I sure won't look down at them because they choose something else. The inverse should apply too though. I have never seen a Festool snob. Every person that I have had the pleasure of chatting with here who owes Festools, has gone out of their way to avoid it.

[Chris Fournier]

Since the OP was considering a Festool I would assume that cost wasn't an issue and that they were looking to learn about the differences between it and a shop vac and understand why it cost more. All of the differences have been pointed out by the various posts. Whether or not you agree with the price it is very clear that there are some pretty big differences between the two. The OP needs to decide if these differences justify the price difference. No one else can decide that for them.

Seems like every time someone mentions Festool on this forum that are people that just jump in and say they are overpriced and not worth the money regardless of whether or not they have ever used them. Just because you can't afford something doesn't make it overpriced and not worth it. There is definitely a difference between an inexpensive power tool and a high end power tool. There is a reason it costs more. Everyone is free to spend their money as they would like. I am tired of the constant negative comments that seem to always to appear on the forum regarding high end tools whether it be Festool or some other brand.

I can afford Festool. I simply can't fathom it.

As presented your definition of "high end tools" seems to mean expensive. I have a lot of expensive tools. They also represent "high value" which to my way of thinking incorporates utility as well as cost when it comes to evalutaing their worth.

To my mind Festool does not represent high value. You can call a Festool a "dust extractor" but that is simply a 25 cent phrase for vacuum. I am willing to go out on a limb and suggest that if you are considering buying a Festool dust extractor you have two things going for you: one, you already have every other tool you really need and two, you have money to burn.

[Paul McGaha]

To each their own way I think. I currently don't own anything from Festool. Maybe at some point in the future. No doubt to be purchased in a pick your moment sort of basis.

Must say though I'm really pretty happy with my portable power tools as they are. Most of them are Porter Cable. I have an old Ridgid Vac and a newer Fein Turbo III I bought from a creeker. Just can't seem to put the old one out to pasture.

PHM

[Kevin Gagne]

I can afford Festool. I simply can't fathom it.

As presented your definition of "high end tools" seems to mean expensive. I have a lot of expensive tools. They also represent "high value" which to my way of thinking incorporates utility as well as cost when it comes to evalutaing their worth.

To my mind Festool does not represent high value. You can call a Festool a "dust extractor" but that is simply a 25 cent phrase for vacuum. I am willing to go out on a limb and suggest that if you are considering buying a Festool dust extractor you have two things going for you: one, you already have every other tool you really need and two, you have money to burn.

This is exactly the type of comments I am talking about.

No I don't own every tool and no I don't have money to burn. I do lots of research before making any major tool purchases to understand what the options are. I saved up for a while to get the track saw and vac. I didn't have money to burn as you imply. Once I started using them I was very happy with my purchase. When it was time for a sander it was the same thing.

I have used their products and definitely notice a big difference from the lesser quality tools that I used to work with. I even enjoy sanding now. I wonder if people that make negative comments about Festool products have ever tried using them. I used to think they were too expensive but after using them I now have a different opinion.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

To my mind Festool does not represent high value. You can call a Festool a "dust extractor" but that is simply a 25 cent phrase for vacuum. I am willing to go out on a limb and suggest that if you are considering buying a Festool dust extractor you have two things going for you: one, you already have every other tool you really need and two, you have money to burn.

Chris, not the reason I like Festool, but even if it was, whats wrong with that?? We each get pleasure out of woodworking, each differently, none is better than the others.

[Chris Fournier]

Chris, not the reason I like Festool, but even if it was, whats wrong with that?? We each get pleasure out of woodworking, each differently, none is better than the others.

I won't disagree that everyone gets to spend their money their way! I get pleasure out of woodworking too. For this reason I would spend my WWg money on a different sort of high value tooling -tools that actually work wood or perhaps even just wood. Personally I see a vacuum as an ancillary tool and get little or no pleasure out of spending money on one. For the money of a Festool dust extractor you are well on you way to a nice cylcone seperator set up for your shop and that really extracts. And I do use my cyclone with dust emitting handtools too so I don't need the little R2D2 extractor at all.

My point, which Kevin finds annoying is simply that much less money can be spent to simply suck dust, sorry, extract dust. The money you don't spend on the $$$ Festool you can spend on other WWg tools and materials which are also joy inducing! Plastic does not inspire me the way that bronze, ductile cast iron or tool steel do.

Now if I was a full time installer of $$$ custom cabinets in a rennovation setting then perhaps a festool dust extractor would make some sense...

[Peter Hawser]

Hi William,

I went kicking and screaming when I bought my Festool CT 26, but I never looked back. In many ways the Festool vac has become the most used tool in my shop. There are other factors to add to the many listed here. Via it's really smart design it is simply easier to use, more fun to use, more useful and therefore... used more! :-) For example, unlike my shop vac the hose is really flexible and it makes a big difference in using it all over the shop. Unlike the ShopVac it is quiet. I don't know about you, but I want to protect my hearing and with the Festool it is quiet enough to not need ear protection. So, used alone to clean up (everything and everywhere) or to instantly hook up to any tool (router, RO sander, belt sander, biscuit joiner...) the Festool is ready to go.

Believe it or not, my wife has the same philosophy. We used to by a cheap vacuum for the house about every year. She had enough of that and bought one costing about $500. We have had it for 7 years and it works better than any of the cheapos we used to buy.

[michael dilday]

Stew - I most emphatically disagree with you but would be the last to lambast you as you have expressed a personal opinion. It was well thought out, rational and supported by facts. The great thing about a free society is we all can make choices that are 'right' for us.

So here is my take on Festool. Do I NEED any of the festool tools I have - no. I am a hobbiest. I do this for fun. I have found over the decades that great tools (Festool, Lie Neilsen, etc) are more FUN for me to use - so that is why I own them. Period - end of story. I can turn out a better quality of work and enjoy it more with great tools. Those of you who can (and do) turn out fine furniture with limited tools have my respect & admiration but that is not for me.

When somebody asks this forum "is XXXX worth the $$$" there will be replies both pro & con with rationale for their opinion. Each questioner needs to take the responses and compare them against their own value system to decide what to do.

The only thing I thought a bit of a low blow was the swipe about status. Of the dozens of people who have seen my shop only one was a real WW'er who had any clue as to what they were looking at.. all the rest you get a glazed look and "that's nice". So if status was my motivation I would be better off with a Porche 911 in the driveway than a couple of grand in green tools nobody sees.

Oh and using a high-volume low-suction-head HF DC with reducer for sanding is not going to give you the air quality in your shop that a Festool vac/sander combo would - that's just a plain fact. So to me impacting my health to save a few bucks is not a good choice but you are certainly free to choose otherwise.

happy WW'ing bro

I agree Erik. I buy a lot of tools just for the pride of ownership. Many tools I could do without or could buy a lesser quality or not NAME BRAND but I am passionate about my hobby and am willing to buy what I want.

[Van Huskey]

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It is two kittens for a Festool thread and three for a Sawstop thread...

[Peter Kuhlman]

I never think to look at the dates of the posts. Crap. Read all the way through this only to find out it is 4 years old!!!!!
Thanks Van for pointing out I am an idiot!!! ;)

[Ben Rivel]

Might be an old thread but the topic is still alive and kicking. People will never stop comparing Festool to cheaper alternatives.

[Stew Hagerty]

I agree Erik. I buy a lot of tools just for the pride of ownership. Many tools I could do without or could buy a lesser quality or not NAME BRAND but I am passionate about my hobby and am willing to buy what I want.


I never think to look at the dates of the posts. Crap. Read all the way through this only to find out it is 4 years old!!!!!
Thanks Van for pointing out I am an idiot!!! ;)


Might be an old thread but the topic is still alive and kicking. People will never stop comparing Festool to cheaper alternatives.

Peter & Ben you beat me to it. Yes, I was the one that set off the bomb in this thread. Michael, as they have pointed out the thread and my post ARE over three years old. Since then, I have seen the light, well to a certain degree.

I now have, in addition to my good old HF Dust Collector with Cyclone as described in my post, I also have a Fein Turbo II with a HEPA filter and a Dust Deputy mounted in a Roll around cart that I built and absolutely love.
I use it with all of my hand-held tools as well as my Disc Sander & CMS. The retractable cord is 50' long so it'll reach a long way.

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I also have been bitten (albeit a relatively small bite) by the Green Monster. I bought a Domino, the 500 model. They're just too darn handy to not have one. And, there are no other truly comparable alternative tools.

[Jim Dwight]

The HEPA type filters for Rigid shop vacs I have seen, I have one and will probably buy another soon are really quasi hepa filters. The say something like HEPA fabric. If you are a contractor doing asbestos work, it makes a big difference. If you are a guy working in your own shop not wanting to breathe fine dust, I am not sure it makes much difference. I don't think it does.

I think all dust collectors need a cyclone. It doesn't make them pull more air until the filter gets dirty. That is what the cyclone is for. To keep the filter clean longer. I think it's necessary. But some high end vacuums, not Festool to my knowledge, are self cleaning. That might be another reasonable way to go.

In addition to a dust deputy, I added an auto on switch to my Rigid. It is a nice to have but is worth the $50 or so it costs. With it, I have a 10 amp Rigid shop vac switching my 15A table saw both on the same 20A circuit. I am a bit surprised it works well but it does.

I use a 20 foot 2.5 inch hose for bigger tools like the table saw and for cleanup. I use a Bosch 5 meter hose for smaller tools including my DeWalt track saw.

I enjoy the few nicer tools I have purchased but I also enjoy getting the same result with less expensive tools. My tools all make enough noise I need to wear muffs in the shop so the shop vac noise is not important - to me. My older Rigid shop vac is probably close to 10 years old. I use it when I go outside the shop. It doesn't have a DD so it is much more compact. In the shop, I use the more powerful Rigid pulling through the DD.

I'd like to have a Festool Domino but I don't need one and I don't want one as bad as many other things I will buy first. I have a hollow chisel mortiser which will do, if anything, bigger mortises than the Domino but takes enough longer to do it's thing I don't use as many mortise and tenon joints as I would with a Domino. I don't see a similar argument for a Festool dust extractor. I bet it is nicer to use than my Rigids but I use the Rigids whenever I need to.

But we each get to decide for ourselves and I will say again that I like using nice tools too.

[Roy Turbett]

Always interesting to see how threads like this one resurface every few years. I remember reading this one several years ago and was firmly in the camp that Festool makes good tools but not that good. Eventually I needed a HEPA vacuum to capture some lead based paint so I began to look for a used Festool but couldn't find one. So I bit the bullet and bought a new one when Festool happened to be running one of their rare sales and haven't looked back. Its worth every penny and, unlike other vacuums, I'm convinced I could sell it for close to what I paid for it.

[Stew Hagerty]

Jim Dwight: I'd like to have a Festool Domino but I don't need one and I don't want one as bad as many other things I will buy first. I have a hollow chisel mortiser which will do, if anything, bigger mortises than the Domino but takes enough longer to do it's thing I don't use as many mortise and tenon joints as I would with a Domino. I don't see a similar argument for a Festool dust extractor. I bet it is nicer to use than my Rigids but I use the Rigids whenever I need to.


Jim, I too have a mortising machine, a really nice Powermatic Benchtop unit (I don't recall the model off the top of my head). I have continued to use it for larger, heavier duty mortises while I pull out the Domino for the smaller ones. It's a system that works really well for me.
I fought myself tooth & nail about pulling the trigger on that Domino though. It cost more than my PM mortiser! But I've found that the mortiser can be finicky on smaller items, while the Domino really shines there. That's exactly why I opted for the smaller 500 series model. I now have the full spectrum covered.
And,of course, I also have my set of mortifying chisels for those times when nothing else will work. For example, I just built a hall table with sculpted legs and much to late, I realized that I should have done the mortises while the stock was still square. Because of the curves it wouldn't work in the mortiser without some type of elaborate jig. Nor would the Domino work because of how close the curve started to the mortise, there wasn't room for the tool. So, out came the chisels. And actually, it was fun chopping them for a change. Over the years I have drifted more & more towards the Neanderthal camp. Although, I'll never go electric free.

[Van Huskey]

Thanks Van for pointing out I am an idiot!!! ;)

I was just being cute, but really just wanted to signal people not to attempt to solve the OP's problems years later.

Here is the simple fact about Festool they make the best hand power tool SYSTEM out there, period, end of story and arguing is just wasting electrons and key strokes. That said they often don't make the best single tool, Mafell often has something to say about that as well as a short list of other. They also are plenty of 80% as good options for 50% less money in most every category and some come closer than 80% (but usually climb above the 50% in cost). They have probably the widest selection of useful accessories AND you don;t have to hunt far and wide for them guessing which ones will fit/work.

In the end those that take the plunge rarely decide the water is not very nice, sure some find certain Festool offerings not to their liking and may move up to a Mafell track or jigsaw or prefer Mirka sanders but it is a rare consumer that vows to never "overpay" for Festool ever again. The reality is we all are balancing budget with need and desires so for some the Festool catalog is just a checklist of tools to buy, for others it is simply a bridge too far budget wise and for most of us it represents premium tools at a premium price that we either choose to work into the budget or buy other things we get more enjoyment from. I personally really like Festool and probably have more Systainers than sense but each tool is evaluated on its merits and how it fits into my budget and workflow for example I don;t have a Festool vac because for me being completely shop based a Oneida Dust Cobra is a better option.

[William C Rogers]

Well after 4 years it is time for an update. I ended up just building my own vac system. I added a Dust Deputy to the system and works very well. I am just a hobbiest and it never leaves the shop. What I did do is buy the Mirka Ceros and use the abernet paper. The Ceros reduces the dust at the work ten fold vs. my $69 ROS. As Van stated "budget" so I couldn't have both. I made the right choice for me. Flat work is not my favorite part of woodworking as I love turning. However I am building my wife a thread cabinet for her embrodiery threads. And we think woodworking is a vortex!

[Bill Dindner]

I found the my Regular shop vacs always clogged and were annoying to use. I'm not very price sensitive when it come to my tools, I'm happy to pay allot more for a better and easier to use tool. Just my experience.

[Bob Grier]

I just purchased 6 fine particles bags for my 6 gal Shop-Vac for a little more than $5 ea. I purchased shop-vac new for under $50. I think it was around $25 on sale at big box about 3 years ago. I did not change the large pleated filter to HEPA and do not know if one is available. I just use the fine filter bags. I do not know the particle size the filter bags capture but it is for drywall/cement dust. Better than standard filters.

The vacuum is small and on wheels so I can easily lift it with one hand over obstacles or carry it to where I want it rather than drag it on wheels over mats and debris.

Disadvantages are obvious. It is loud, collects static dust, it probably doesn't have the suck of green cool-aid, won't last as long as better quality vacs, doesn't have quite as good filtration and probably a dozen other faults that don't come to mind. Advantage over more expensive vac of better quality - portability and it is is cheap. I use it for green track saw and other tools.

I have HEPA air cleaner in shop that runs when making dust and I use a downdraft table connected to dust collector for most sanding operations. I use the shop vac for work off the sanding table and for cleanup of shop. It is easy to change bags. Bags came from Amazon Prime so no shipping on invoice.
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