Another Festool vs Fein question

[Chris Fougere]

Vote 1 or 2 and why - pls. I've read a million threads on this already.


ETS 150/3 + CT26 = $827

Bosch 3727 + Fein Turbo ii = $438


I'm most of the way to a good track saw with option 2. I have tried option 1 and it's an awesome combo, and I'll gladly spend the money, but I like the idea of buying more with my money if possible.

Thanks!

[Alan Wright]

Here is my my take... I have the Rotex 125 as opposed to the 150 (5 inch versus 6) I love the sander in the aggressive mode, but as a finish sander, I like my $60 dewalt ROS better. I don't have experience with the Bosch, so I can't really compare. but at about 1/3 the cost of the Festool, I'd think hard before I spent over $400 on a sander that wasn't a very good finish sander. The reason I don't like it as a finish sander is that the ROS action just doesn't seem any different than any other quality ROS but at the same time, the sander is more difficult to keep steady on the wood. There is a learning curve in using this sander, but even so, My Dewalt and Milwaukee sanders do an equal job and are easier to use. The aggressive setting on the Festool is another world and the only reason I use this tool.

As far as the vacuum is concerned, the tools don't need to match. I did a ton of research and ended up with the dewalt D27905. At $249 from Tool King (no affiliation) it costs about half the Festool, and while not an exact comparrison, I have been very pleased with the purchase. You might want to throw it in the mix

Alan

[Chris Fougere]

The turbo ii is 299 on amazon, pretty good deal I thought

[John Lanciani]

Option #2 is my exact setup. I've demo'd option #1 (with the older CT22) in my shop and it is not +/-$400 nicer in any way. I have other Festools but the vac and sander don't bring enough to the table for me to justify the extra cost. If the difference was $100 I'd consider it.

[Jim Stewart]

I have a Turbo II and I really love it. I have a bosch as well hooked to my router table. Both seem to be good units but the turbo II is quieter and has plenty of suction to do my general clean-up. The Bosch is a larger unit does a good job at the router table. It is hard to believe that a Festool is that much better. I would like a domino.

[Chris Fougere]

Option #2 is my exact setup. I've demo'd option #1 (with the older CT22) in my shop and it is not +/-$400 nicer in any way. I have other Festools but the vac and sander don't bring enough to the table for me to justify the extra cost. If the difference was $100 I'd consider it.

This is valuable info as I can't demo this setup. I can demo Option 1 and it is indeed excellent.

[Erik Christensen]

answer depends on how much other festool stuff you have now or will buy in the future - the tools all work well together - better than when I have tried to mix & match. I am a home hobbiest so this is for fun - therefore my tools have as much run-time in a year than a pro puts on in a month. I expect that, other than consumables (sanding pads on sanders, saw blades, etc), the stuff will last decades - it is at least as well made as some of my Milwaukee tools that are 30+ years old. amortized over a decade the cost difference is ~ $3/month - to my value system that is worth it - to yours maybe not. I really like their sanders - fast, controllable, low dust, minimal vibration and great results. I strongly dispute the claims the RO series is not a finish sander - in rotary mode yes it is closer to a belt sander with none of that sanders liabilities but in RO mode I can create a surface finish a good as any other sander with less time and a lot less fatigue.

my values are not yours so advice is hard to translate - to me a BMW auto is not worth the asking price but a festool kapex is - I have good friends who believe exactly the opposite - the funny thing is we are both right.

[Matt Meiser]

Here is my my take... I have the Rotex 125 as opposed to the 150 (5 inch versus 6) I love the sander in the aggressive mode, but as a finish sander, I like my $60 dewalt ROS better. I don't have experience with the Bosch, so I can't really compare. but at about 1/3 the cost of the Festool, I'd think hard before I spent over $400 on a sander that wasn't a very good finish sander. The reason I don't like it as a finish sander is that the ROS action just doesn't seem any different than any other quality ROS but at the same time, the sander is more difficult to keep steady on the wood. There is a learning curve in using this sander, but even so, My Dewalt and Milwaukee sanders do an equal job and are easier to use. The aggressive setting on the Festool is another world and the only reason I use this tool.

Comparing a Rotex to an ETS sander is about like driving an F350 and saying the Lincoln doesn't ride good. Totally different machines, totally different feel. ETS sanders are finish sanders. Rotex machines are meant to be agrressive with the ability to back off. I'll sometimes use the Rotex in gear mode, then random mode with the same grit before switching to an ETS 150/3.

[Victor Robinson]

The turbo ii is 299 on amazon, pretty good deal I thought

It IS a good deal, but remember you'll need to add better filtration to it. It comes with a 5 micron cloth bag.

[Andy Wojteczko]

Fein Turbo does not come with Hepa filter or anti static hose. If you add these items to the cost you are much closer in price. You cannot put any thing on top of the Fein also the hose storage sucks.
You will not find better dust extraction than that of the ETS150/3 sander. The vibration level is very low and control is very good.
I do not have any experience with the Bosch sander.
Andy

[Chris Fougere]

Fein Turbo does not come with Hepa filter or anti static hose. If you add these items to the cost you are much closer in price. You cannot put any thing on top of the Fein also the hose storage sucks.
You will not find better dust extraction than that of the ETS150/3 sander. The vibration level is very low and control is very good.
I do not have any experience with the Bosch sander.
Andy

Gotcha HEPA filter, I think they are about 30 bucks at Lowes for a brand that fits better than the ones made by fein from what I read.

Tell me about the hose. Is the anti-static important??

[Steve Milito]

I actually own both a Fein and a Festool vac. The Fein without the HEPA kit is not in the same league as the Festool. The HEPA kit adds $140 to the Fein. Even with the HEPA kit I prefer the Festool, but they are pretty similar.

I also own a Bosch 1/4 sheet orbital, a Bosch 5" palm ROS, the ETS 125, and a RO 150. The dust extraction on the two Bosch's I own is substantially less than the either Festool. Otherwise the bosch sanders are fine. I don't know if the bosch listed above is better than the one's I own but the reason I bought the ETS was my dissatisfaction with the large amount of dust produced by the Bosch ROS even when attached to a vac with a Hepa filter.

[Greg R Bradley]

You have to define your use to determine what is best for you or what is best for the price.

I have some experience with all of the above units. I bought my first Fein Vac about 20 years ago, which I still use along with a Turbo II HEPA, and Turbo III. I have a Festool Midi HEPA. I have ETS 150/3 and 150/5 sanders and sometimes use a Rotex 125 and 150.

First, a Rotex 125 or 150 sander is not a finish sander. It has its uses and is great for when you want to hog a bunch of material and then do some finish work. It is a nasty introduction to Festool sanders for most people. Matt Meiser is exactly right about the Rotex.

The advantage of the Festool Vacs over the Fein is the rectangular shape that takes up less volume. Another is that Festool Systainers mount on top. Another is the antistatic hose that is of virtually no advantage in my location but I do understand that some places have problems with static. Adding a Dust Deputy kills the antistatic function anyway unless you pay big $ for the UDD, which kills the Systainer storage and the convenient hose storage. Some lead remidiation contractors feel they are more comfortable with the vacuums that are only sold as HEPA compliant units with our out-of-control fines-as-tax government agencies. Another is the hose storage although they don't store the larger hoses.

In a home shop, I would buy the Turbo II HEPA for about $350 and add a Bosch VAC005 hose for $30. The Fein hose will run your shop vac duties and the tools you may buy that use the big fittings like a tracksaw. The Bosch hose gets the Festool power cord tied to it for use with sanders and other small Festool items.

I would buy the ETS150/5 instead of the /3 as a first sander but that really depends on what you are doing.

Daily hauling for business, storing in neat stack at a customer, or space critical like my Midi with Systainers attached in the crew cabin on a yacht starts making it worth spending money for a Festool Vac. Otherwise, get a Fein vac on sale and save the money for the next tool you "need".

IF you are buying a Festool vac and a tool, buy them together since that saves you 10% on the vac. Also, buy them before 2/1 since most of them are going up a bit.

I'm a big Bosch fan but the specific one you reference in the OP is not a good one. Actually I'm not much of a fan of the current Bosch sanders except the 1/2 sheet and the big monster 1250DEVS, which is even better than the Rotex for cleaning up the outside of a big yacht in drydock. They did have a nice 5" orbital sander but they replaced it with garbage. Bosch must have hired too many MBAs or something.

[Harvey Miller]

I went with the Festool ETS 150/5 and the Fein turbo III and am pretty happy with the cost/performance mix. True, the Fein doesn’t have the smart little features of the Festool vac(syscontainer & hose storage, etc), but as a vac I like it. It’s quiet, simple and works well with their step adaptors for the ETS. I found Sears vac hepa filters fit on the Fein easily, and with the addition of the oneida dust deputy, the dust control is superb. Granted the cyclone & vac makes an awkward package, but I’ll eventually solve that problem.

[Chris Fougere]

Thanks all.

I'm still undecided. It's not a budget issue for me as I have budgeted enough for either system, it's a value issue. Kinda silly I know, but if I can get the same perf for half price what do I care about the color.

[Andrew Joiner]

Have you considered the Bosch ROS65VC? I'm very happy with my $60 Milwaukee RO. If I wanted a 6" I'd try the new Bosch.

[Greg R Bradley]

Do you realize that the Bosch ROS65VC is about $50 less than a Festool ETS150? The Festool comes with a Tanos Systainer. If you don't think that is worth $50, they sell instantly for $60.

I haven't compared them side by side, BUT the Bosch feels slightly bulkier and the specs say it is heavier. Also, the stroke is 2mm, by far the smallest of any RO.

Lately Bosch has a history of missing small things on new items. A clip that doesn't hold up and breaks or something like that. I would not want to be the beta tester on a new Bosch item even though I have some Bosch items that are wonderful. They do have a 30-day no questions return like Festool and most items have a 3 year warranty if you register them almost like Festool.

[Greg Portland]

Vote 1 or 2 and why - pls. I've read a million threads on this already.


ETS 150/3 + CT26 = $827

Bosch 3727 + Fein Turbo ii = $438


I'm most of the way to a good track saw with option 2. I have tried option 1 and it's an awesome combo, and I'll gladly spend the money, but I like the idea of buying more with my money if possible.

Thanks!
Disclosure: I own #1 and use it a LOT. I also have a boom arm which is a very nice addition (so $1k or so total for the package). I also owned the Bosch sander and used Mirka Gold paper when it was my primary finisher. The Bosch's orbit is 2mm while the Festool is 3mm so theoretically in the Bosch will leave tighter scratch patterns. In practice, I noticed little difference... both left extremely fine surfaces. The Festool has better balance and less vibration than the Bosch (I can push it around with my finger tips) but the Bosch is MUCH better than the other big box sander options out there. Where that balance and lack of vibration pay off is when you are sanding large projects. I bought my sander 1/2 way through a large bookshelf project (14 linear feet of shelving) and the difference was noticeable after an hour of sanding (in retrospect I should have rented a wide belt!). In terms of dust collection, the Bosch is pretty good especially when using abrasive mesh (instead of paper with holes). One downside is the Bosch's flat dust port; I found that the round hose + adapter tended to flex down and the hose would drag (more than the Festool). It looks like both sanders can use a variety of polishers and papers so that's a wash. I've found that the Festool paper lasts _slightly_ longer than Mirka Gold but it is also slightly more expensive. Again, a wash.

Both vacs are great and will do what you need when paired with a sander. As I mentioned before, the boom arm option with the Festool is really nice. I guess you could cobble something similar together with a different vacuum (2x4 structure with hangers, etc.).

Festool clearly makes sense if you're buying into their entire system. If you just want a quality sander and vacuum the Bosch is a great option. If you are planning to sand for very long periods of time w/o a break the difference is noticeable with the Festool.

[Greg Portland]

Totally different machines, totally different feel. ETS sanders are finish sanders. Rotex machines are meant to be agrressive with the ability to back off.
+1. The Rotex is capable of fine finishing HOWEVER the balance is poor when compared with the ETS or even the Bosch option and the tool is much heavier. This adds up when sanding for prolonged periods of time. With the ETS you can push it around by the power cord (when sanding with fine paper)... the balance is that good!

[Chris Fougere]

Disclosure: I own #1 and use it a LOT. I also have a boom arm which is a very nice addition (so $1k or so total for the package). I also owned the Bosch sander and used Mirka Gold paper when it was my primary finisher. The Bosch's orbit is 2mm while the Festool is 3mm so theoretically in the Bosch will leave tighter scratch patterns. In practice, I noticed little difference... both left extremely fine surfaces. The Festool has better balance and less vibration than the Bosch (I can push it around with my finger tips) but the Bosch is MUCH better than the other big box sander options out there. Where that balance and lack of vibration pay off is when you are sanding large projects. I bought my sander 1/2 way through a large bookshelf project (14 linear feet of shelving) and the difference was noticeable after an hour of sanding (in retrospect I should have rented a wide belt!). In terms of dust collection, the Bosch is pretty good especially when using abrasive mesh (instead of paper with holes). One downside is the Bosch's flat dust port; I found that the round hose + adapter tended to flex down and the hose would drag (more than the Festool). It looks like both sanders can use a variety of polishers and papers so that's a wash. I've found that the Festool paper lasts _slightly_ longer than Mirka Gold but it is also slightly more expensive. Again, a wash.

Both vacs are great and will do what you need when paired with a sander. As I mentioned before, the boom arm option with the Festool is really nice. I guess you could cobble something similar together with a different vacuum (2x4 structure with hangers, etc.).

Festool clearly makes sense if you're buying into their entire system. If you just want a quality sander and vacuum the Bosch is a great option. If you are planning to sand for very long periods of time w/o a break the difference is noticeable with the Festool.

Thanks - the cobbling together bit bothers me. I think the picture is becoming clearer.

I wonder if there is a better ROS that works with the FEIN? My plan is to park the vac under my uni and add a DD and rarely move it. When I do move it, I will be carrying it. That's one advantage the FEIN has I think.

I'm planning on adding a tracksaw also - brand to be determined, so this will factor into my decision also.

[Steve Milito]

Thanks - the cobbling together bit bothers me. I think the picture is becoming clearer.

I wonder if there is a better ROS that works with the FEIN? My plan is to park the vac under my uni and add a DD and rarely move it. When I do move it, I will be carrying it. That's one advantage the FEIN has I think.


You don't need to match the ROS and Vac. Buy the Vac you want and the ROS you want. It all depends on what you value and how much you are willing to spend.

[Chris Fougere]

You don't need to match the ROS and Vac. Buy the Vac you want and the ROS you want. It all depends on what you value and how much you are willing to spend.

Actually my decision is easy now.

The only vacs that will fit under the right wing of my uni are the CT mini or the midi.

I was searching for a way to measure value. The fact that the vac will fit perfectly there in my small shop is easily worth the price difference (which is only a few hundred now with the downgrade in vac)

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'm planning on adding a tracksaw also - brand to be determined, so this will factor into my decision also.

I hear that Festool makes some nice tracksaws too... :)

[Chris Fougere]

So I am going to order the Festool combo this week with the 150/3.

I need to decide on the mini vs midi and believe it or not the 2 inch height difference might be a deciding factor.

If someone could tell me the height of the systainer for the 150/3, then I can add that to the height of both the mini and the midi which I know from their specs. I want to make sure I can get store the vac and the ETS together under my uni wing.

[Mike Heidrick]

8" tall for the sys 3 of the 150/3

[Mike Heidrick]

May not be able to use the boom with the mid or mini - that boom looks pretty sweet!

[Chris Fougere]

8" tall for the sys 3 of the 150/3

Sweet thx!

[Matt Meiser]

May not be able to use the boom with the mid or mini - that boom looks pretty sweet!

No, it only fits the full-size vacs.

Storing your first Systainer on top of the vac makes sense. After that it gets unwieldy. ;)

[Sam Murdoch]

So I am going to order the Festool combo this week with the 150/3.

I need to decide on the mini vs midi and believe it or not the 2 inch height difference might be a deciding factor.

If someone could tell me the height of the systainer for the 150/3, then I can add that to the height of both the mini and the midi which I know from their specs. I want to make sure I can get store the vac and the ETS together under my uni wing.


Adds 8 -1/4" - for a T-loc systainer. I believe that you will be very happy with this combo and continue to build on with excellent satisfaction :). Another + to keeping with the Festool system is that the customer support is as good as it gets.

[Joe Jensen]

Festool has a 30 day satisfaction policy. Call a local dealer and either borrow to try or buy and if not satisfied on the value return. For many the price is way too high. If you appreciate well made tools you may well find them worth it.

As others have said, the ETS 150/3 is a fine 3mm orbit finishing sander. I have one and love it. The RO series is a dual mode sander, direct rotary drive where it rivals a belt sander and 5mm orbital mode. I also have one of these and I use it when I need to remove stock fast. I haven't used a belt sander sincebuying it but I don't use the RO150 that much. Festool also sell a 5mm orbit ETS150/5.