Problem with Beall buffing

[Wells Jacobson]

I would love to hear if others have problems buffing and would appreciate suggestions to improve whatever I am doing wrong.
Most every bowl I have made has the best and smoothest feel after sanding and before I start finishing. I am experimenting with a variety of finishes and improving as I go but I usually get in trouble buffing---- especially with tripoli. Seems I get red/gray streaks on the wood which are the devil to remove so I resand. I have cut back on the amount on the wheel but would like to know how long others touch the tripoli to the wheel to charge and how firmly the wheel is pressed to the wood to buff. I feel the wood heat up some. And ? same technique with white diamond?
Thanks,
Jake

[Darryl Hansen]

I rarely if ever use tripoli anymore. I generally start with diamond and then wax. Sounds as if you are putting too much compound on the wheel. Just a dab " will do ya" I use lacquer and make certain the finish is well cured before buffing.

[Thom Sturgill]

If I am buffing after applying oil, I use tripoli then white diamond then ren wax. I mount my wheels on the lathe because i use different speeds for each. The tripoli wheel wants to be hard when the item is pressed against it. Keep the piece moving as heat can build up and be a problem, I usually have the speed around 1500 rpm.

I drop the speed to about 1000 rpm when I change to the white diamond. It should remove the wax/tallow that the tripoli is compounded with. If you are getting grey streaks - have you ever used that wheel/tripoli with metal? That is a BIG no-no!

Buff the White Diamond with the grain to remove embedded tripoli.

Lower the speed to about 700 rpm for the wax buff. I lightly apply the wax to the item using just a small flake on my finger tip, then buff off. For lacquer finishes I often just do this step.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

It sounds like either your finish is not cured fully, too thin or most likely you are dwelling too long or pressing to hard. Tripoli can generate a lot of friction and heat when buffing. Use light touches moving the piece from low to high.
faust

[Scott Hackler]

I will use the Tripoli wheel if it's a dark wood, then white and hand wax with Ren wax. I have done this with poly and tung oil finish and get great results. Darryl is right about a little compound will do ya. I would unload the wheels with the edge of a 2x4 and start over. A light pressure and about 300-600rpm.

[BILL DONAHUE]

The very experienced turners I've watched buff use a lot less tripoli than one would expect, just touching it to the wheel. I would suggest letting your finish sit for a few days to completely cure before buffing and also try using little pressure against the wheels. LIke everything else in woodturning, experimentation and experience works out the problems.

[Richard Jones]

Sounds like too much compound, too much pressure. Touch the brick to the wheel lightly for maybe 2-3 seconds, tops. That should last for a couple or more bowls, depending. If you're generating heat, you're pressing too hard. The buffing can't take the place of sanding, and I buff only to lay down whatever fibers were raised with the finish. Some finishes respond well to buffing, some don't. I've found that with walnut oil, I'm just wasting my time with initial buffing. 600 grit paper works better for me then.

[Kelvin Burton]

This is more of a question than and answer, but on the same topic. I have found my Tripoli seems to have become very hard and virtually none is being transferred to the buffing wheel. I've had it maybe 2 years and the end looks glazed. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, did you just scrape some off the end or do something else?

[wes murphy]

what did i miss sonewhere... not using the carnuba wax that comes with the wheel???

[Thom Sturgill]

what did i miss sonewhere... not using the carnuba wax that comes with the wheel???

Carnuba tends to show finger prints and spot when wet. Ren wax does neither.

[Curt Fuller]

I usually get in trouble buffing---- especially with tripoli. Seems I get red/gray streaks on the wood which are the devil to remove so I resand. I have cut back on the amount on the wheel but would like to know how long others touch the tripoli to the wheel to charge and how firmly the wheel is pressed to the wood to buff. I feel the wood heat up some. And ? same technique with white diamond?
Thanks,
Jake
I wish I could find the article by the late Russ Fairfield on buffing. It is the most excellent I've seen. But the one thing I remember him emphasizing is to not overload the wheel, tripoli, white diamond, or wax. I had many of the same frustrations you've mentioned and solved them by cleaning the compounds off my wheels on some bare, rough pieces of wood. And then just very sparingly applying compound from then on. I think most of that streaking that you're seeing is just tripoli that the wheel is pushing around. Carnuba wax can also leave streaks that are impossible to remove. Just touch the tripoli, white diamond, or wax to the wheels lightly for a second or two and that's plenty to usually buff the entire piece. And if you feel like there's too much on the wheel, just take it off with a rough piece of wood.

[Neil McWilliams]

On the dark oily tropical woods, buffing alone with a wax final finish will often yield beautiful results. The tripoli may show itself in nooks and crevices on light woods, as the white diamond may on dark woods. That said, a very light touch and constant fingertip assessment of results is the way to go. I like the TownTalk wax available at Big Monk Hardwoods as a final finish. It is important that your lacquer or poly has cured at least 36 hours before trying to buff it. But buffing will take off all those tiny nibs and leave a very smooth finish. Practice makes perfect.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I would clean your tripoli wheel good and then just barely touch the wheel with the tripoli. It does not take much and also use light pressure. If you are feeling heat you are pushing to hard. I use tripoli, white diamond, and then Ren Wax.

[robert baccus]

The remarks about light use of compound and pressure are spot on. A few observations--Beale buffing is not a single word, buffing has been around for centuries. All buffing is not done by wax compounds--the majority of my pieces are buffed on the lathe using liquid buffing compounds and water with a pad. Small pieces are done on a wheel with wax compounds. Larger pieces such as bowls & vases ect. are far easier on the lathe. The liquid compounds almost eliminate burning and smearing. Comounds come in many grits and I usually follow them with a carnuba wax containing a small amount of very fine abrasive(auto)--these can be found in auto finishing supply houses. How do those new Porches get so shiney?

[Sid Matheny]

Light touch, light touch, light touch!

Sid

[Thom Sturgill]

Light touch, but light touch DOES NOT mean light grip DAMHIK !

[Richard Jones]

Good point, Thom. I also have a rubber mat under the buffing wheel, just in case......................

[Steve Doerr]

I too have had problems on and off with my Beall buff system. Sometimes it is really good and sometimes just so so. The past few times of use, I have been really trying to pay attention to what I'm doing that has produced the desired finish and what has not produced the desired finish. Your post, along with some of the others, got me thinking and trying to do some research. I looked for Russ Fairfield's article, but his old web site is down. However, there were several YouTube videos concerning the Beall system. Some by Russ and some by Beall himself. You might want to Google those and watch them. There appears to be a couple of different philosophies on speed but I think they will all get you to the same spot. They will definitely help me get to a more consistent process and finish.

Happy Turning
Steve

[Wells Jacobson]

What a great group of most helpful responses. Digesting what has been said, I'm sure much of my problem stems from too much product and too much pressure. Think I'll also skip the tripoli on holly and the white diamond on dark woods. Perhaps I was also trying to make up for recognized areas of insufficient sanding with buffing pressure.
This forum pushes me a bit faster along the learning curve than I would make it on my own. Thanks.
Jake

[Thom Sturgill]

Watching the Doctors video on his products and the part where he sands using the walnut oil, he talks about the slurry being a burnishing compound. its important to remember that the sanding dust is just as hard as the wood being sanded. He wiped the piece with clean oil to remove the slurry. I take the opposite tack when I use it on black walnut, I want the slurry to fill the pores so i wipe it off but don't wash it off. I just finished a canister made from black walnut, sanded with walnut oil and let dry overnight and Beall buffed today. I used all three passes with ren wax being the final. there is no white residue in the pores as I filled them and buffed
with the grain.

I'll post pictures in a separate thread tomorrow..

[Eric Gourieux]

Wells,
I will add another detail to the previous responses. Since you are having the problems that you mentioned, take a piece of scrap wood with a fairly sharp (squared) edge and use it to clean up your tripoli wheel. I run the speed up pretty high around 1500rpm with my 8" wheel and fairly aggressively "buff" the edge of the scrap wood. This will do a pretty good job of cleaning off the excess compound from the wheel. I'll even use the corner edge to punish the wheel. On a few occasions, I have taken the wheels off of their mounts and washed them in the laundry.

[Jack Mincey]

I have done what Eric mentioned to clean the wheel, but usually just get a piece of 60 grit sand paper and hold it against the wheel and it cleans and softens the wheel in seconds.
Jack

[Earl DesRoches]

Wells
Here are a few Youtube videos from Russ Fairfield on buffing.
I hope it works for you
Earl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9vpJS5IEOE&feature=BFa&list=UL6lIrxpLtDxs&index=9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9vpJS5IEOE&feature=BFa&list=UL6lIrxpLtDxs&index=9)

[Wells Jacobson]

Thanks again. The thoughts and videos were helpful.
Wells

[robert baccus]

When in my misspent youth I was a hotrodder and everyone had to have a buzzword brand carb or headers--not just a carburator. Until some pilgrim with a shadetree rod wipes them out. I think we all tend to think in ruts or group think. Wheel buffing is wonderful but it has it's problems also. Hard to get a uniform surface on a big piece,,tends to throw pieces out the window,,tends to burn easily,,tends to smear compounds and wax. These problems anyway are eliminated by rag buffing on the lathe. It makes sanding--spraying--wetsanding--steelwooling--waxing one continuous operation and also allows easy repair (backing up steps) when I screw up! Only in removing it from your mounting block is there much danger in dropping or banging your best piece ever. The older and slower I get the more I appreciate less laborous and complicated procedures. Old Forester