Time to Fes up...

[Julie Moriarty]

I had to face reality:


My RO sander was showing signs of dying. I use it a lot and it's well over 10 years old.
My 30+ year old Craftsman shop vac, even with a new HEPA filter, may not be containing all the dust.
The dust health problem is real and cumulative and was now noticeably and immediately affecting me.
Going cheap on your health is dumb.
I had to stop being dumb.


So I bought the Festool RO 125 FEQ 5" Dual Mode Rotex Sander and the CT 26 Dust Extractor Package. Many times I looked at Festool but everything seemed so expensive I wondered how it could actually be worth it. Many here said their tools are so I made the leap. I hope the investment is worth it. Fingers crossed.

FWIW I'll be adding the Dust Deputy into the system too. And I'm heading out the door soon to pick up a new respirator.

[Jeff Monson]

Julie, I have the same setup. I added the dust deputy a year or so after I purchased the sander and vac. You will really enjoy owning this combo, makes sanding a little less of a daunting task.

[johnny means]

Feel the power of the Darkside. Join us and together we'll rule the universe.

[Alan Melbourne]

dont be ashamed. why would you. you suffered with lesser tools long enough. now enjoy your new tools

i have a ro150 (and ro90) and ct22

[Erik Christensen]

welcome to the green kool-aid club - careful as it is terribly habit forming

[Julie Moriarty]

Thanks for all the encouragement but don't you think it's kinda scary when you actually start to think? Before you know it, you start to plug in your power tools instead of spinning them by hand. :rolleyes:

[Tom Willoughby]

I just did the same thing and purchased a Festool ETS 150/5 sander to save my lungs. Congratulations on the new purchases!

Tom

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I think you'll like it! I've noticed that Festool is a little like hand planes though, you can't have just one... so, have you thought about a Domino? Just trying to help!

[Damon Stathatos]

I remember when I first started out in my garage, building my shop with a (demo/broke thus cheap) craftsman table saw and gradually 'upgrading' anything and everything from there. Reading books, forums, and listening to other people caution me as to necessary precautions, I never believed 'that stuff' would happen to me...after all, I'm ME...and they're them. I pay attention to what I'm doing and so...I'm immune to kickbacks, driving my finger through a bandsaw blade, getting my sleeve sucked into a lathe...whatever.

Safety goggles??? They're for wimps man...I love woodworking and sawdust/chips flying onto me and into my face is just one of the 'experiences' of the whole ordeal. That was until a chip caught me in the eye and it felt as if every time I blinked (which was more often now that my eye was 'on fire') it felt as if someone was sticking a hot poker into my eye. That lasted the better part of three to four days.

The first kickback I experienced sent me to the emergency room...my daughter thought I was going to die (she's theatrical). The second kickback I experienced launched me (180 lbs) seven to eight feet through the air and left me sprawled on my back onto the table saw behind me. The impact of the Jatoba into my abdomen (not pine...jatoba...a particularly hard and dense wood) actually cracked the piece of wood on impact into my gut. No blood, although it ripped through my denim overalls, but it took six to eight months for the hardened 'rope' on my gut to finally dissipate. It also took me two to three hours to finally get my breath and to recover from 'shock.' I couldn't even get back to the saw to turn it off and I had my thumb on my cell phone with '911' punched in the whole time as I was hyperventilating...just in case...and man, I hope I have the wherewithal to know if I'm about to pass out to actually call 911. I have that cracked piece of wood nailed up in my shop as a reminder, with the date and the lettering 'KISS' written across the face of the wood...normally 'Keep It Simple, Stupid,' but in this case...'keep it SAFE stupid.'

And so Julie, everything you read and everything you hear...wear safety googles, wear ear protection, and wear a dusk mask...are not just generated from people who sell safety googles, ear protection, or dust masks. Rather...it is advice from people who have been in the craft for many years and no longer feel some sort of 'machoism' by thinking they can avoid them. When I read that people 'don't like' or 'can't stand' a dust mask...ooh...I can't breath!!!...I think to myself...these are either people who don't have the brains to learn from people or history, or, are just stubborn and as-yet lucky people who have yet to experience pain, and I'm talking real pain, by ignoring the 'rules.'

Every time I turn on a machine to drive a piece of wood, I put my dust mask on, then my goggles, and then my earmuffs. A pain in the ass?...Absolutely...but at this point...I feel 'naked' if I don't. And I do this, everyday...day in...and day out...so I'm putting on and taking off all of these things what seems like constantly or always. (Side note...why is it my wife only calls just as I'm fully 'armored up' and ready to turn on a machine???)

Festool is a great system and I congratulate you on your choice. Add a dust mask to the equation (not to mention, goggles and ear muffs)...and regardless of what they claim...you will thank yourself down the road. Don't fight it...just do it.

Best to you and again, congratulations on your decision.

[Mike Cutler]

Julie

It's a nice setup, you're really going to like it. If I hadn't already had a Fein Vac, I wouldn't hesitate to have gotten the CT 26.

If it gives you peace of mind about your purchase and the relative price,I too always thought the Festool products were overpriced and over hyped, until I bought the OF 2200 router. I've since added the TS 75 saw.

[Sam Murdoch]

Julie the Festool RO 125 FEQ 5" Dual Mode Rotex Sander was my 2nd Festool purchase - started with the TS55. Festool has changed the way I work - all for the better. But here I am writing to say a few words about the RO125 (while you are still in the 30 day no questions asked Festool return period). This is only a caution if you intend to use your RO for mostly finish work.

This sander required more of a learning curve than any other sander I had ever used. Actually, I don't recall needing to learn how to use a sander other than a few belt sanders, but The RO 125 was a challenge. I spent some time on the Festool Owners Group (FOG) asking questions and reading posts and went on to use it very effectively for finishing a few walnut tops and a some Jatoba doors and South American cedar doors too as well as some painted cabinetry. Still, always thinking - man this is a tricky tool.

Finally I had some work to do with pine. The RO 125 to the pine required such a light touch that I actually resorted to doing most of the sanding by hand. I know that others will say that this was just my technique. Perhaps that's true, but I'm not a novice woodworker and I would be willing to argue the point. In any event, after a couple of years I needed a bigger sander than the 125 and decided that I wanted a more dedicated finish sander. Bought the ETS150/3. OMG :eek: - what a nice sander - happy to sand any kind of wood any kind of finish using from 100 grits and finer. If you are doing mostly finish sanding this is the Festool sander to own. If you can own both you need only buy this as your next Festool :D.

The RO125 is a very very versatile sander and I am very glad to have it. I never use belt sanders anymore. The RO125 does aggressive sanding very well and with soooo much less element of risk compared to in line belt sanders. And the RO125 can do finish sanding too with care and with practiced technique, but it is NOT a finish sander. I offer these comments for what their worth - only my 2 ¢ - as I don't know the kind of woodworking you do. I know you will be very happy with your upgrade. It's all for the better, absolutely! Enjoy.

[Julie Moriarty]

And so Julie, everything you read and everything you hear...wear safety googles, wear ear protection, and wear a dusk mask...are not just generated from people who sell safety googles, ear protection, or dust masks.

Damon, my first entry into serious safety in construction was when I ran a job at a national lab (Argonne's Advanced Photon Source). As the head foreman, I was required to have an OSHA 10-hour certification. I then had to deal everyday with Argonne's safety officers as well as the general contractor's safety supervisor. The stringent safety requirements kept a lot of construction workers from taking the job.

For two years safety was job #1 and I was responsible for as many as 30 electricians. If they violated a safety rule, I was put on the hot seat. Safety had become a big part of my work attitude and I took those lessons to every job I ran after that. But with all the focus on safety in electrical construction, we rarely had to concern ourselves with dust inhalation. And the attitude towards noise was pretty lax too. Still, when working with the tools, I voluntarily wore gloves, ear plugs and, when drilling into concrete, dust masks. And yes, there were some guys on the job who poked fun at me.

But then I got home I was happy to shed the hard hat, eye protection and work boots when working around the house. Until I retired, my workshop in the basement was used primarily for projects around the house. After I retired, I wanted to make some furniture. With each challenge came the realization I needed better tools if I wanted to really build furniture and if I wanted to be creative, I needed even more. And the dust and chips flew. When the cold weather moved in this season, and I spent more and more time in the workshop, the dust inhalation started rearing its ugly head. And I wasn't recovering too well. That's when I realized I did a better job at protecting the guys who worked for me than I did protecting me. And that's just dumb.

BTW, I've had one kickback that sent a piece of 6/4 red oak into the door and left a nice triangle indentation and another that sent a piece flying across the basement when the doors were open. That's why I never stand behind the piece I'm cutting at the table saw. And I had one accident when my leather glove snagged on the blade and pulled my thumb into it. It took three days for the bleeding to stop. I still have that glove.


Julie the Festool RO 125 FEQ 5" Dual Mode Rotex Sander was my 2nd Festool purchase - started with the TS55. Festool has changed the way I work - all for the better. But here I am writing to say a few words about the RO125 (while you are still in the 30 day no questions asked Festool return period). This is only a caution if you intend to use your RO for mostly finish work.

This sander required more of a learning curve than any other sander I had ever used. Actually, I don't recall needing to learn how to use a sander other than a few belt sanders, but The RO 125 was a challenge. I spent some time on the Festool Owners Group (FOG) asking questions and reading posts and went on to use it very effectively for finishing a few walnut tops and a some Jatoba doors and South American cedar doors too as well as some painted cabinetry. Still, always thinking - man this is a tricky tool.

Finally I had some work to do with pine. The RO 125 to the pine required such a light touch that I actually resorted to doing most of the sanding by hand. I know that others will say that this was just my technique. Perhaps that's true, but I'm not a novice woodworker and I would be willing to argue the point. In any event, after a couple of years I needed a bigger sander than the 125 and decided that I wanted a more dedicated finish sander. Bought the ETS150/3. OMG :eek: - what a nice sander - happy to sand any kind of wood any kind of finish using from 100 grits and finer. If you are doing mostly finish sanding this is the Festool sander to own. If you can own both you need only buy this as your next Festool :D.

The RO125 is a very very versatile sander and I am very glad to have it. I never use belt sanders anymore. The RO125 does aggressive sanding very well and with soooo much less element of risk compared to in line belt sanders. And the RO125 can do finish sanding too with care and with practiced technique, but it is NOT a finish sander. I offer these comments for what their worth - only my 2 ¢ - as I don't know the kind of woodworking you do. I know you will be very happy with your upgrade. It's all for the better, absolutely! Enjoy.

Thank you Sam! I had no idea about most of what you wrote.

The first project I planned to tackle with the new purchase was sanding off the finish and stain from the kitchen cabinet carcases. They are oak with a maple stain. I want to stain/dye them a very dark, close to black, color so I wanted to get to bare wood. That means the sander and the sandpaper would have to be up for the challenge. From what I had read, the Rotex, with the right paper, would be up for the task. But that will probably be the only time I'll sand finished wood. Your statement about the RO125 not being a finish sander concerns me because after the kitchen carcase project, finish sanding is what I'll be doing with it most of the time.

I ordered the Festool package online. I got an email saying they shipped it yesterday. I'll have to put the sander through its paces to see if it's the right tool.

Now watch, if I find it isn't I'll probably go buy the right one and keep the RO125 "just in case"! Then I will know I drank the kool-aid... and I liked it. ;)

[Sam Murdoch]

Julie, the RO125 will be a good tool for stripping the old finish. It will do that better than any other sander I can think to use. Do some practice runs on something you don't care much about just to get a feel for it in both modes.

As for the proper abrasive for the job, this is my take on the subject: I started out my Festool sanding career using Rubin, Brilliant 2, and Cristal. Haven't used the others enough to form an opinion - just a few samples now and again.

Rubin has always disappointed me. It is considered a good bare wood abrasive up to fine finish work - so in the 60 grit to 120 grit in my mind (maybe to 150). Never liked it. Clogs easily and doesn't really ever do what I hope. Got some for sale :).

The Brilliant 2 from 80 grit on up into the 400s has become my favorite Festool abrasive for all bare wood and the sanding of finish - especially pigmented finishes including BIN type primers. (There is more to the story - keep reading.)

Cristal is my go to abrasive for removal of old paint or for chewing up some rough grain - slab lumber or cleaning an old porch floor. Does that real well.

The more story is that a boatbuilding friend of mine told me about Mirka Abranet Mesh. As they say - I haven't looked back. With this product I have stopped using Rubin altogether, only use Brilliant 2 if I don't have Abranet Mesh in the right grit. Cristal is still my rough sanding grit and used exclusively on the RO125. I get Abranet Mesh from here http://www.2sand.com/Sanding+Discs/5+inch+Hook+%26+Loop+Discs/ - one source among many. I can't say enough good about it. For sanding clear finishes between coats - shellac, urethane, Waterlox, ML Cambpell Aqualente type finishes - there is no comparison to any of the Festool products I mentioned. This stuff can be used easily 5 times longer than the Brilliant 2 without clogging and is an excellent product for prepping bare wood. It is by far the most versatile abrasive I have ever used for power sanding. There, I got that off my chest :D.

Have fun with your new toys.

[Alan Melbourne]

festool has a 30 day return policy.. doesnt matter why. just return it any buy a different one if you want.

my ro150 is a great tool.
i was showing off to a friend oneday adn took a resaw rough piece of timber (oak i think) and put some 40 grit rubin1 on it. i sanded back to smooth (as smooth as you get with 40g) is seconds.
the gear driven mode is amazing. i went up throught the grits until you could see a really great shine off the piece. in the right light you could see reflections .

i use granat sand paper the most . festtol only released it lately. it is for bare wood and finished wood. it lasts a long time and doesnt clog much
i would argue that the ro150 is the best all round sander on the market. some say the ets 150 3mm strock is the best but it couldnt do half of what the rotex sanders do.
it definetly is a finishing sander. in the ro mode it is as fine as the ets witht he 5mm stroke.

one piece of advice is start using the sander in random orbit mode to get used to the sander and then switch to the gear driven mode . it is very agressive .
i would reconmend to use a finer grit to learn with because it wont grip the wood as much as an 80g would
also make sure you turn DOWN the suction to about half . the ct vacs are so powerfull they will pull the sander down into the wood . when this happens the sander will vibrate and be hard to control because it is easier to move the top half of the sander than the pad suctioned down to the wood.
haave fun

[Sam Murdoch]

festool has a 30 day return policy.. doesnt matter why. just return it any buy a different one if you want.


one piece of advice is start using the sander in random orbit mode to get used to the sander and then switch to the gear driven mode . it is very agressive .
i would reconmend to use a finer grit to learn with because it wont grip the wood as much as an 80g would
also make sure you turn DOWN the suction to about half . the ct vacs are so powerfull they will pull the sander down into the wood . when this happens the sander will vibrate and be hard to control because it is easier to move the top half of the sander than the pad suctioned down to the wood.
haave fun

Yes, +1 - good advice. And I agree that the RO150 is a much more versatile sander than the ETS but they are different animals. The ETS is the finish sander that the RO can only pretend to be - as the RO is the all purpose sander that the ETS can only envy.

[Alan Lightstone]

I agree that the Rotex is a beast. I use my ETS 150/3 for 99% of my sanding. I rarely use the Rotex. I've thought of selling it many times.

That being said, if I wanted to hog off a bunch of wood or finish, the Rotex is the go-to sander.

Really good advice up above from Alan. Of course, with that first name, how could it not be. ;)

[Erik Christensen]

I use my RO150 a lot more than my ETS150. I use it as both rough & finish sander - rotary mode 80-120 grit then RO mode to 180 & ready for finish - they only time I break out the ETS is if I need to sand small stuff (a face frame for example) or a real fine grit between finish coats.

[Dave Novak]

I agree that the Rotex is a beast. I use my ETS 150/3 for 99% of my sanding. I rarely use the Rotex. I've thought of selling it many times.

That being said, if I wanted to hog off a bunch of wood or finish, the Rotex is the go-to sander.

Really good advice up above from Alan. Of course, with that first name, how could it not be. ;)

This hasn't been my experience but since I only have the Rotex my experience is limited. I find it very effective at fine sanding, even between coats of finish.

[scott vroom]

Here's my setup:

Porter Cable 390K 5" ROS w/dust collection - $124
Rigid 14 gal pro shop vac - $99
Fein 1-1.25" x 16' flex hose - $67
3M 7500 respirator w/P100 particulate filter - $26

My total investment: $316

The Festool sander and vac combined with the same 3M respirator is $1,046

$730 more for the Festool setup? Really?

I'm not a Festool basher...I own a Festool 400 EQ sander that we use for drywall sanding (3.25" x 5.25" rectangular pad great for DW corners/changes in plane).

[Julie Moriarty]

The tools just came. As one who has always been able to identify well engineered products, I have to say, I was immediately impressed. The CT26 was bigger than I imagined, almost as big as my old Craftsman 16 gal shop vac. I was thinking I'd keep both in the shop, the shop vac for general cleaning and the CT26 for connecting to tools. Now I'm not so sure. It would probably be a no-brainer if the cost of replacement bags on the CT weren't so high.

I had planned on buying the portable Dust Deputy so I could use it for both vacs, and also save about $110 in the process. Outside of the price, the Festool specific DD sits on top of the CT and it becomes a huge tower. You also can't stack systainers on it once the DD is mounted on top. So I need to think about this some more.

Thank you all for the specific info on the tools and different types of paper. Sandpaper and I don't know each other very well, I typically look at the package and buy the best. But when I entered into the Green World and saw all those different kinds of paper, my head started spinning. I thought I needed a sandpaper PhD to figure out which one to select. I've copied and pasted your advice and cancelled the sandpaper education courses. ;)

As for quality, I've worked for contractors that buy the cheapest tools they can find and watched labor increase, quality decline, workers get grumpy and injuries start surfacing. And I've worked for contractors who buy quality tools that produce quality results, save time, decrease the chance of injury and makes workers happier. I've seen this time and time again and it's always the same. So I've never begrudged myself for buying quality, I just believed Bosch, DeWalt, Delta, Jet, Powermatic and all the other brands that I'm used to seeing in construction were all I needed. That is until health problems reared their ugly heads.

Anyone want a sip of my KOOL-AID? :D

[Julie Moriarty]

I took the sander out of the box and OMG! Yes, it's a beast! But more than that is I know I am in for a workout when I use it, not just the wood. When I put my hand around it, my thumb and middle finger don't even come close to touching. They are about 1-1/2" apart. I think I'll be using two hands with this thing. Whoever designed this must have had some pretty big hands!

[Alan Melbourne]

there is a great pdf on the festool usa wesite showing the different abrasives and what they are designed for
i would get a dust deputy straight away if you plan to use the ct26 on anything but the sander. those bags are expensive if you are filling them with chips. its not too bad when you are sanding. a bag lasts a long time sanding.
i have the reusable bag for my ct22 and its great for the bigger stuff
the one thing with the DD is that the anti static conection is broken by the insulating DD. you may never get a shock but i have once or twice. its got something to do with humidity and moisture content etc.
copper striping stuck to the inside and up to each port on the DD will conect everything
the UDD isnt worth it in my opinion

i have a small thien baffle for my boom arm and tools that creat chips etc


i have only used an ets for a few minutes . it is a very nicly balanced sander . i would love one but my rotex does everything and way more than the ets.

[Don Bullock]

Julie, I have the same setup. I added the dust deputy a year or so after I purchased the sander and vac. You will really enjoy owning this combo, makes sanding a little less of a daunting task.

i fully agree with Jeff. The Festool sanders, Dust Extractor, and a Dust Deputy make a great combination for the shop. I now have two sanders and would like to add another one. The only thing holding me back is cash for the sander.

[Greg R Bradley]

Julie,

I hope this does not offend you but based on the info you provided, I assume you may be coming to the conclusion that you bought the wrong first Festool Sander. This is just my opinion but it is based on my experience with a bunch of Festool Sanders. The Rotax Sanders are just beasts although the RO90 may not be bad.

Based on reading who you are and what you want to do, I would think you want to buy a ETS150/5, try it out and return the RO 125 before your 30 days are up. If you are somewhat happy with the RO 125 and think you want to keep it, you might want to add a ETS150/3 before the price goes up $15 on Feb 1.