Generator Propane conversion

[Mac McQuinn]

My (6) year old 5000 watt Honda generator has always run like a clock.......when you can get it started. I always start it every (6) months and use fuel stabilizer religiously and don't use fuel with ethanol listed. Fuels today seem to age very quickly and the onset of cold weather doesn't seem to help with igniting things.

This Saturday night we lost power for about (5) hours and I needed to start the generator although pull and pull and she would not light. Had spark at the plug and fuel at the carburetor although it wouldn't start. Well, the power did finally come on although not until after 5 hours of bailing from my Sump Pump crock.

In hopes of not repeating this experience, I'm now looking at the propane conversions for generators and wondered if anyone had any experience with these?

Mac

[David Weaver]

I'm going to guess the problem is at the carb level and not all of the fuel.

If you let the generator run dry and store the fuel in a different container or use a fuel shutoff and let itself run out of gas, it should start a lot easier the next time. Your carb might be varnished with old gas, but you can go out to youtube and type in the brand of engine you have and look for video based help on cleaning it or replacing the plugged parts with a kit.

I think in this case, storing the fuel separately with stabil, or even just using stabil and starting the generator a little more often just to run fuel through the carb and you should be fine.

[AL Ursich]

If the Carb has a Bowl, many times I have found that in the center bottom of this bowl sediment has built up and it blocks the flow of fuel into the engine. Worth a look.


Would like to hear more on your Carb to LP Conversion as you do it.

AL

[John McClanahan]

In Missouri, all regular and mid-grade gas is ethanol,and the pump doesn't have to be labeled. The only way to get pure gas is to buy premium.

I am planning to convert my generator to either propane or natural gas. I just need a situation like yours to jet me started! :D

John

[Jeff Monson]

Mac, I cant offer you help with a generator, but I do have a propane powered ice auger. Its the best thing since sliced bread, no gas cans, starts amazing, no exhaust smell, the oil never gets dirty, good economy. I think a retro to a generator would be great, mine sits for a year at a time without use.

[Mac McQuinn]

This is exactly how I do it, gas is run out Generator tank, Carburetor is then drained, fuel is stored in container w/ fuel stabilizer for 4 weeks and then cycled through the cars and new gas is purchased.
Mac



I'm going to guess the problem is at the carb level and not all of the fuel.

If you let the generator run dry and store the fuel in a different container or use a fuel shutoff and let itself run out of gas, it should start a lot easier the next time. Your carb might be varnished with old gas, but you can go out to youtube and type in the brand of engine you have and look for video based help on cleaning it or replacing the plugged parts with a kit.

I think in this case, storing the fuel separately with stabil, or even just using stabil and starting the generator a little more often just to run fuel through the carb and you should be fine.

[Mac McQuinn]

Spoke to Local implement dealer this AM and they have a wheel barrel full of replaced carburetors sitting in the shop. They mentioned unless gas is listed as ethanol free in our area, it has it in it. Also stated the higher the octane, the quicker it breaks down.

Mac



In Missouri, all regular and mid-grade gas is ethanol,and the pump doesn't have to be labeled. The only way to get pure gas is to buy premium.

I am planning to convert my generator to either propane or natural gas. I just need a situation like yours to jet me started! :D

John

[David Weaver]

Assuming that you have a supply of propane that's fairly large, then it sounds like it's not a bad idea.

[Mac McQuinn]

Jeff,
I'm with you, If I can find a model specific kit, I'm going to make the conversion. If you're in a storm ravaged area, Gas is at a premium, typically restricted and that's if there's electricity to pump it. Throw in the breakdown of fuel and effects of Ethanol, I see a lot of benefits and very little minuses in Propane.

Mac


Mac, I cant offer you help with a generator, but I do have a propane powered ice auger. Its the best thing since sliced bread, no gas cans, starts amazing, no exhaust smell, the oil never gets dirty, good economy. I think a retro to a generator would be great, mine sits for a year at a time without use.

[Jeff Monson]

Jeff,
I'm with you, If I can find a model specific kit, I'm going to make the conversion. If you're in a storm ravaged area, Gas is at a premium, typically restricted and that's if there's electricity to pump it. Throw in the breakdown of fuel and effects of Ethanol, I see a lot of benefits and very little minuses in Propane.

Mac

Keep me in posted if you happen to find specific kits to convert them, I'd be interested for my 3500watt. I cant imagine how long a generator would run on a 20lb. tank, I think a person would be impressed with the run time.

[John Lanciani]

... I cant imagine how long a generator would run on a 20lb. tank, I think a person would be impressed with the run time.

20 lbs. of propane is 4.5 gallons, or about 410,000 BTU. This is roughly equivalent to 3.28 gallons of gasoline so the answer is not very long. (My Generac 7500 watt generator uses about a gallon an hour if it's loaded up.)

For conversion kits look here; http://www.propane-generators.com/index.html

I've considered it a few times but I would only do it if I felt like keeping 2 or 3 100lb tanks around. (I keep 25 gallons of gasoline on hand in the winter) Typically after a catastrophic event like a hurricane or ice storm you can get gasoline in a couple of days, propane may or may not be readily available depending on location.

[Mac McQuinn]

John,
I understand, fortunately I have a large LP distributor less than 1 mile away and another LP fill station 2 miles away. So in my case I feel it would be a worthwhile conversion. Typically our power outages are 1-7 hours although we did go (3) days on (1) occasion. I feel a 100# LP tank would suffice for most outages.

While possibly not as efficient as Gasoline, Propane would burn cleaner with less contamination of the oil supply and from my understanding Propane generators start easier and run smoother. The price of a new Honda replacement Carb buys a lot of propane as I might very well be headed in that direction.

I really don't care for storing large amounts of Gasoline as I don't have the room and do a lot of welding and cutting in my garage, I also don't think my insurance man would like it either. I feel Propane would be safer in that respect plus I would not have to cycle the Gas through the family cars every month and refuel the holding tanks.
Mac


20 lbs. of propane is 4.5 gallons, or about 410,000 BTU. This is roughly equivalent to 3.28 gallons of gasoline so the answer is not very long. (My Generac 7500 watt generator uses about a gallon an hour if it's loaded up.)

For conversion kits look here; http://www.propane-generators.com/index.html

I've considered it a few times but I would only do it if I felt like keeping 2 or 3 100lb tanks around. (I keep 25 gallons of gasoline on hand in the winter) Typically after a catastrophic event like a hurricane or ice storm you can get gasoline in a couple of days, propane may or may not be readily available depending on location.

[John Lanciani]

Understood Mac. I do think going to bi-fuel makes good sense if you're comfortable with your supply. It certainly gives you options. I have a small Yamaha 2kW unit that we use for extended outages just to run the pellet stove overnight or when we're not home. I am thinking long and hard about switching it to bi-fuel because it will run for almost a day on a 20# grill tank. In the past 3 years we've had three multi day outages so we've had to gear up to be prepaired. I'm not thrilled about having so much gasoline on hand (kept in a shed away from the house) but it is neccessary here.

[Jeff Monson]

20 lbs. of propane is 4.5 gallons, or about 410,000 BTU. This is roughly equivalent to 3.28 gallons of gasoline so the answer is not very long. (My Generac 7500 watt generator uses about a gallon an hour if it's loaded up.)

For conversion kits look here; http://www.propane-generators.com/index.html



Good info. and thanks for the link. I found my generator right away, $227.00 to convert it. I use mine for camping and hunting trips (from time to time), I'd be a little worried about carrying more than 1 20lb cylinder though. I thought I'd get more run time than what you pointed out.

My bad, $227.00 would allow 3 fuel sources, I find this option very attractive. $187.00 for bi-fuel only, the downside is you have to drill out the carb.

[Charles McKinley]

Look at the 40 pound cylinders. Double the capacity of the 20 pound bottles but are still manageable to move by yourself.

[Mac McQuinn]

Chuck,
Thanks, I'll check that out tomorrow.
I aways have a 20# on hand for the grill and coupled with a 40# would give me some margin just in case.
Mac



Look at the 40 pound cylinders. Double the capacity of the 20 pound bottles but are still manageable to move by yourself.

[Wade Lippman]

20 lbs. of propane is 4.5 gallons, or about 410,000 BTU. This is roughly equivalent to 3.28 gallons of gasoline so the answer is not very long. (My Generac 7500 watt generator uses about a gallon an hour if it's loaded up.)


20 pounds of propane will last me 2 days on my Yamaha EF2000. That is about right, as a gallon of gasoline will last about 8 hours.

I have 4 tanks, so I am good for a week. It doesn't go bad, isn't dangerous to store, and there are no fuel related issues on the generator.
I am tempted to run NG to it, but that seems like overkill.

[Rod Sheridan]

After conversion will the propane engine have enough power output to carry your load?

Regards, Rod.

[Mac McQuinn]

After talking to better informed today, I tried a couple things and was able to at least get the generator running although only briefly. Evidently the engine has lost it's "prime". I removed the spark plug, squirted a bit of gas into the hole, reinserted plug and it started on second pull. It quit after running for only 4-5 seconds. Now to figure out how to get it's prime back and keep it. If I can get it to run long enough to do so, at least I have a running unit. At this point, I really feel propane is the way to go to eliminate these issues.
Mac

[Mac McQuinn]

Rod,
Good question, I have not found a power reduction for Propane chart as of yet. I'll check w/ my Master Electrician who installed my Box and see if he still has a draw figure. I remember when it was installed he metered it and stated I had plenty of power available for what I was pulling.
Mac


After conversion will the propane engine have enough power output to carry your load?

Regards, Rod.

[John McClanahan]

Propane has lower BTUs than gasoline so the engine has about a 25% reduction in horsepower. It depends on if, or how much the engine is overrated as to the generator as to how much watt reduction you will see.

John

[Mac McQuinn]

I've seen figures anywhere from 0 to 15% loss in HP although fully understand the reduction in BTU's. My understanding is the HP loss depends on how the propane is directed into the engine. I've read about drilled carburetors, plumbed adaptors at Carb/Airbox junction, complete new throttle bodies, etc. I noticed Menards carries a Generac propane unit, I'm going to investigate this a little better to determine the HP to watt ratio is and how the propane is delivered to the engine.

Mac




Propane has lower BTUs than gasoline so the engine has about a 25% reduction in horsepower. It depends on if, or how much the engine is overrated as to the generator as to how much watt reduction you will see.

John

[Scott T Smith]

After talking to better informed today, I tried a couple things and was able to at least get the generator running although only briefly. Evidently the engine has lost it's "prime". I removed the spark plug, squirted a bit of gas into the hole, reinserted plug and it started on second pull. It quit after running for only 4-5 seconds. Now to figure out how to get it's prime back and keep it. If I can get it to run long enough to do so, at least I have a running unit. At this point, I really feel propane is the way to go to eliminate these issues.
Mac

Mac, usually small engines are gravity fed. Based upon the fact that it will run with a shot of gas in the cylinder, I would check three things.

First, look to see if there is a fuel pump somewhere in-line between the tank and the carb. If so, check to see if it is working.

Second, check the strainer in the bottom of the gas tank to see if it is plugged.

Third, remove the carb and clean it. If the needle valve is sticking ( not an uncommon problem), it will prevent the gas from refilling the carb.

[Mac McQuinn]

Scott,
I have plenty of fuel in the carb bowl and strainer was clean as a whistle......looks like I'm at #3!
Mac


Mac, usually small engines are gravity fed. Based upon the fact that it will run with a shot of gas in the cylinder, I would check three things.

First, look to see if there is a fuel pump somewhere in-line between the tank and the carb. If so, check to see if it is working.

Second, check the strainer in the bottom of the gas tank to see if it is plugged.

Third, remove the carb and clean it. If the needle valve is sticking ( not an uncommon problem), it will prevent the gas from refilling the carb.

[Scott T Smith]

In that case, the problem is in the main jet system of the carb.

[Jeff Monson]

Third, remove the carb and clean it. If the needle valve is sticking ( not an uncommon problem), it will prevent the gas from refilling the carb.

I'd put a 20 on that one also, I'm sure the varnish has stuck the needle valve closed, should be an easy fix.

[Jim Matthews]

Not to muddy the waters, but when I installed my generator the recommended fuel of choice was natural gas, which is piped to the house.

Even the largest propane tanks run dry. If there's a catastrophic event, you're dependent on a fuel delivery when you run out.
Natural gas has a robust delivery system, with substations that are self-powered if there's an interruption in the electric grid.

Propane has a vapor pressure that drops dramatically with temperature. In the Summer, that may not be a problem.
In the Winter, if the power is out, your generator may not be able to support a full power load, running on propane.

Is Natural gas available as a fuel choice for you?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-vapor-pressure-d_1020.html

[Mac McQuinn]

Jim,
Some great points.
I do have NG available presently and heat with it. If the real estate values ever come back a bit, I'm out of Michigan and NG might not be an option for me where I end up. The Generator is only 5K watts so It's not a whole house unit, just enough to keep food safe, some heat and the sump pump working. I'm somewhat reconsidering my options as I'm nursing a tweaked shoulder trying to start the Generator on Sunday, perhaps I should research a replacement Generator with electric Start and multi-fuel capabilities.

That's good to know about the reduced vapor pressure as my biggest load would be in the winter and Propane might very well not have the steam to run my present Generator at it's full capabilities.

thanks, Mac




Not to muddy the waters, but when I installed my generator the recommended fuel of choice was natural gas, which is piped to the house.

Even the largest propane tanks run dry. If there's a catastrophic event, you're dependent on a fuel delivery when you run out.
Natural gas has a robust delivery system, with substations that are self-powered if there's an interruption in the electric grid.

Propane has a vapor pressure that drops dramatically with temperature. In the Summer, that may not be a problem.
In the Winter, if the power is out, your generator may not be able to support a full power load, running on propane.

Is Natural gas available as a fuel choice for you?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-vapor-pressure-d_1020.html

[Mac McQuinn]

Scott,
The Main Jet was 99% blocked, probably a good thing It would not starthttp://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/eekers.gif Needle jet wasn't entirely blocked although certainly had it's share of varnish. I'm surprised as I've always used fuel stabilizer. Thanks for all the help in diagnosing this.
Mac



In that case, the problem is in the main jet system of the carb.

[Myk Rian]

I empty the tank, then run the carb dry on the generator, tractor, any gas engine before storing.
Keeps the varnish out of them.

[phil harold]

seafoam is the answer
take the off the carb and bowl submerge it in seafoam for a couple of days
blow all the openings out with compressed air
re-install
should start up pretty easy
always use seafoam when storing

you can run an engine on 50 50 solution of gas and seafoam

[Jim Matthews]

Is this stuff a low molecular weight petrol distillate?

If it is, does it act like a solvent? Many supply lines in generators
are eroded by Ethanol, how would this additive be different?

[phil harold]

Is this stuff a low molecular weight petrol distillate?

If it is, does it act like a solvent? Many supply lines in generators
are eroded by Ethanol, how would this additive be different?

How does it work?
maybe they can explain it to you
http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html

I just Know that it does, small engine service company taught this to me years ago and has worked faithfully over the years
I use this instead of stabil great stuff

[Mac McQuinn]

While I've used a fuel stabilizer for years, this is the first time I've had problems. That said, I'll continue to use it or another option in my Motorcycle since it only sits with a full tank of fresh fuel from December 1st till March 1st. With the generator, I'll do as some have mentioned and drain the fuel from tank and carb. I'll keep a couple gallons of fresh petrol on hand in the shed for short power outages and recycle/replenish it once a month through our vehicles.
Mac