Back saw technique

[Mark Baldwin III]

When making cuts with a back saw, what is your preferred technique? I mark my line with a knife and then widen it with a chisel. To my knowledge, that is pretty common. What I'd like to know about is whether people have a preference towards dropping the heel of the saw while cutting, or dropping the tip. If you have a preference one way or the other, I'd like to hear why. Just something I was thinking about today while cutting. I wanted to concentrate on the mechanics of sawing and actually try and better myself a bit.
I think dropping the heel of the saw worked a little better for me.

[Chris Griggs]

I start at the tip and work my way back towards the heel following my mark. I do the opposite occasionally, if I need to be especially accurate in terms of plumb, but I shoot most my saw cuts anyway and little out of plumbness is quicker and easier to touch up on a shooting board than out of square. I tend to be most accurate in terms of cutting to my line by following it from front to back so thats what I do. For some reason I just find sawing to be a little smoother as easier as well when I start at the toe (with the heal up) and work down.

[Jonathan McCullough]

I like to start cutting in the corner, so I can get the saw plate aligned to both planes/strike lines. Like most, I suppose, I don't necessarily cut perfectly from the first stroke, so it's easier to make very slight adjustments when you start in the corner like that. So I guess I drop the heel.

[Charlie Stanford]

I start at the tip and work my way back towards the heel following my mark. I do the opposite occasionally, if I need to be especially accurate in terms of plumb, but I shoot most my saw cuts anyway and little out of plumbness is quicker and easier to touch up on a shooting board than out of square. I tend to be most accurate in terms of cutting to my line by following it from front to back so thats what I do. For some reason I just find sawing to be a little smoother as easier as well when I start at the toe (with the heal up) and work down.

Start saw cuts on a corner, in the case of a crosscut with a joinery saw on the back corner and then bring the saw down. Obviously, the toe of the saw starts the cut, the heel is in the air and all come level after the cut has a nice start.

You're doing it right.

[Jim Matthews]

I was instructed to start on the far side of the cut, but that only works out for crosscutting.

When ripping (as with a tenon) I score the cutlines heavily, but cut on the side nearest me.
Otherwise, I can't really see what I'm doing. When I get down to the "bottom" of the cut,
I flip the piece over and do the same on that side.

I have a vise that allows me to tip the piece away from me, so the work is at an angle
and my saw is parallel to the floor.

When the two long sides are cut, I reset the vise to hold the workpiece perpendicular to the floor
and connect the two sides.

It's not orthodox, but it works without any "spelching".

Now that I've started splitting the cheeks off on most tenons,
this is unnecessary.

[Dhananjay Nayakankuppam]

Start at the near end because I find it helps with tearout, especially with rip cuts. I try to go more along one face first, and then change the angle of the saw slightly. For example, assuming the board is lying on one face with an edge facing me, I'll start on the near corner and then cut the edge a bit more then shift to a slightly more shallow angle so that the kerf in the edge helps to keep the saw aligned while going at the face. Cheers, DJ

[Chris Griggs]

Just to clarify. I was speaking about crosscuts at a bench hook. For rip joinery cuts (e.g. tenons and dovetails) I tend to start at the edge closest to me and follow two lines at the same time, keeping the saw at a somewhat upward angle to cut with the grain. So its the opposite of what I generally do with crosscuts. Although, in all honesty I tend to vary how I do my rip cuts more then my crosscuts, even though starting at the edge closest to me is what I do most often. Sometimes I'll start at the edge farthest from me, and make shallow cut following down the line towards myself before cutting far downward, and other times I'l start the cut going straight across the top. This varies with the length of the cut, size of the workpiece, the height at which its clamped, and honestly, whatever subjectively feels the most accurate at that moment. Again though, most of the time for rips I start at the corner closest to me and most of the time for xcut I start at the edge farthest from me.

[Charlie Stanford]

I was instructed to start on the far side of the cut, but that only works out for crosscutting.When ripping (as with a tenon) I score the cutlines heavily, but cut on the side nearest me.Otherwise, I can't really see what I'm doing. When I get down to the "bottom" of the cut, I flip the piece over and do the same on that side.I have a vise that allows me to tip the piece away from me, so the work is at an angleand my saw is parallel to the floor.When the two long sides are cut, I reset the vise to hold the workpiece perpendicular to the floorand connect the two sides.It's not orthodox, but it works without any "spelching".Now that I've started splitting the cheeks off on most tenons,this is unnecessary.Works for rip cuts too, like tenon cheeks. See Ian Kirby articles too numerous to list.

[Adam Petersen]

I have to ask, does it really matter as long as you are cutting smoothly and following your line? I usually do the far end, toe down first.

I would like to ask, not to hijack, whether you draw the saw to start your kerf then move into the standard stroke? (Western back saws). Is this bad for the saw? I tend to use a chisel to make a notch for joinery cuts except when on the bench hook. I've heard it is not good practice and have started to try to move away from it, but it makes starting my cuts easier. Your thoughts?

[Charlie Stanford]

I have to ask, does it really matter as long as you are cutting smoothly and following your line? I usually do the far end, toe down first.

I would like to ask, not to hijack, whether you draw the saw to start your kerf then move into the standard stroke? (Western back saws). Is this bad for the saw? I tend to use a chisel to make a notch for joinery cuts except when on the bench hook. I've heard it is not good practice and have started to try to move away from it, but it makes starting my cuts easier. Your thoughts?

I believe starting on the far corner matters. I never start flush on endgrain. Some do (Klausz), but I don't see it as a best practice honestly. You establish the far side corner kerf, which will be followed when the wood is reversed, one keeps the toe registered in this beginning kerf while sawing down the front side. Again, read Kirby.

It doesn't "hurt" a saw to draw it backwards to form a kerf nor is it a bad practice. Make your tools work for you. Saws get dull. This is not hurt, it is expected. If you figure out a way to keep a saw from getting dull besides not using it do let us all know. I love dull tools, especially dull saws. They usually are indicative of a finished woodworking project or two. Nothing tickles me to death more than a shop full of well-used, dull tools. We'll spend a relaxing morning honing all back up and then, no worries.

You could try a slight nudge forward with the saw to start your kerfs to satisfy your own curiosity but ultimately do what feels comfortable.

Notching out with a chisel is ok I suppose, but it's slow and introduces another tool into the mix at a point where it is not really needed.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

With crosscuts, I go with whatever works, with rip-cuts, I tend to start on the near corner, as the "rising" cut goes with the fibers of the wood more than a "falling" cut, but it depends on the cut and the wood. With a pull-stroke saw, I start on the far corner. Joel explains a reasoning for this on the TFWW blog : http://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/161

[Adam Cruea]

Crosscut, I start on the far corner. Rip, I start on the near corner and try to get as far down the line nearest to me, then tip the toe down so that the saw plate can follow the kerf I just made that I *know* follows the line.

[Mark Baldwin III]

Thanks for the input. It's nice to hear the why behind techniques, and I appreciate it. It looks like the majority cut toe down. Though heel down seems to be working well for me at the moment. I left the question very general on purpose.
In particular, I asked it after I was crosscutting thin (1/2") oak. Knowing why people do something one way or the other helps me to know what to look out for.

[ian maybury]

Having just been getting into saws i was interested to read of another variation today in a mag piece by a well regarded UK guy.

He's not dogmatic about it, but his method is to grip the handle very lightly - to aim to start with the saw horizontal. Reach around the back to lightly pinch the blade between thumb and finger, take some/most of the weight through the handle - and to then start the cut by pushing forward. Keep the pressure light for the first few strokes. Once the saw has started switch the free hand to the bench to prop and stabilise yourself.

He talks of the pinched blade reducing the possibility of it skidding away from the usual thumb to one side of it, but it's possibly a way (along with keeping most of the weight off the wood) as well to minimise any tendency for the teeth to bounce in the cut as the saw is starting. Like a friction damper.

Will try it out in the coming days...

I guess the real issue is less the precise method (there's several that seem to work) as the need to practice like mad until the old body memory kicks in. 10 years/1000s of hours they say....

ian

[george wilson]

I also start a cut by drawing the saw backwards.Start with the heel high.

Are you all aware that by looking at the reflection of the edge of the wood in the saw blade,if you adjust the tilt until the reflected edge of the wood is straight,the cut will be square (provided you are sawing straight across a board)? This doesn't work if you are Nakajima and never have a straight edged board to begin with!:)

I doubt that drawing the saw backwards a time or two does detectable damage to the teeth. Wood is so much softer than the saw,it's not like filing steel backwards with a file.