rough turned bowl

[Anthony Diodati]

I read this somewhere, maybe here, did you ever do this where you leave a tennon on the inside of the bowl, to grab it with the chuck to true up the bottom and the outside, for a final turn. Will it still dry OK?
Right now it's drying in a brown bag with shavings, it's Cherry if it matters.
Might try the DNA soaking, is anyone doing that?
Seems it might take a lot of DNA $$ though.

[Brian Kent]

With this idea, how would you mount it to get rid of the inside tenon?

[Anthony Diodati]

With this idea, how would you mount it to get rid of the inside tenon?

There is a recess in the bottom.

[Richard Coers]

I'd say it's almost certain to crack. Fruit woods are the worst for cracking, and introducing that much difference of wall thickness will create stresses from unequal drying. I also don't think you will have enough outside wall thickness for returning. Might be wrong with that because I turn all my bowls in one operation. I also wouldn't turn that close to the center of the log with cherry as cracks will start there the easiest.

[Dennis Ford]

I agree with Richard, cherry turns great but is somewhat prone to cracking. You really don't need that tenon on the inside to true up the bottom and it will increase the possibility of cracking. My suggestion is to remount this one and turn it to finished thickness and remove a little height at the same time.

[Anthony Diodati]

I agree with Richard, cherry turns great but is somewhat prone to cracking. You really don't need that tenon on the inside to true up the bottom and it will increase the possibility of cracking. My suggestion is to remount this one and turn it to finished thickness and remove a little height at the same time.

You mean remount and turn to finish thickness Now? What, just turn it thinner, and let it dry in the open, and let it move a little if it wants to?
Do you think I should remove all of the pith,

[Steve Vaughan]

Yup, I'd say remove some of the pith. And I'm thinking with the others here...the walls look a bit too thin for rough turning, so I suggest just go ahead and finish turning it, remove a bit of the height (pith), and let it move however it will as it dries. Makes 'em unique. As for the DNA, I as do many others here, do the DNA soak for several hours and even overnight.

[Anthony Diodati]

Thanks........
Now this DNA soaking, are you doing this to rough turned bowls, then when there dry, finish turning them.
How much do you usually need in a bucket; about 2 gallons?
Does the wood "drink up" a lot of the DNA?
So far I have only read John or was it dave Smith's post here on the creek, about DNA drying.

So I turned that a little too thin for rough to finish later?
I did notice when l was doing the sides, when I got up around where the pith is, I was getting chatter.

Do you think if I finish turn this piece, I should dry it upstairs in the open, or put it in a brown bag with shavings for a while? I guess I am thinking slower (in a bag with shavings) is better??

[Richard Coers]

Thanks........
Now this DNA soaking, are you doing this to rough turned bowls, then when there dry, finish turning them.
How much do you usually need in a bucket; about 2 gallons?
Does the wood "drink up" a lot of the DNA?
So far I have only read John or was it dave Smith's post here on the creek, about DNA drying.

So I turned that a little too thin for rough to finish later?
I did notice when l was doing the sides, when I got up around where the pith is, I was getting chatter.

Do you think if I finish turn this piece, I should dry it upstairs in the open, or put it in a brown bag with shavings for a while? I guess I am thinking slower (in a bag with shavings) is better??

Definitely keep it in the bag after returning. Unless you soak in DNA, then the rules are different. Air in my house is really drying out with this cold snap, no idea about WV, so you really have to be careful now. I use landscape paper bags since they are double wall. Keep it in there for at least a week. The talk about thicker walls is because that thing will go oval when it dries, not because the walls are more stable. If you let it dry, then returned it, it would not clean up all around.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I would go ahead and finish the bowl as was suggested and then soak the pith with CA glue. I also see a problem leaving the tenon in as it would take longer to dry. Also if you are using that tenon to remount and clean up your recess to remount the bowl just remember that the tenon will be out of true also which means you won't be able to true up the recess. When roughing leave the wall thickness at least 10% of the diameter with a tenon. For me it is easier to true up a tenon. The 14" bowl I roughed today is 1.5" thick. I coat the entire bowl with anchorseal and put in a cool, dry place on the floor. I also treat bowls that I have to finish green the same as a natural edge. I soak them with antique oil for 15 minutes and let dry for 24 hrs. I then give it another coat. I have had very little movement when doing this.

[Thomas Canfield]

I agree that the thickness looks to be less than 10% or diameter and possibly would give a problem to return after warping to dry, and turning to final thickness now might be a real good idea. The amount of pith also looks like a crack waiting to happen and should be reduced. I do have a somewhat similar piece of white oak about 18" D x 5" H with a center "rough bowl) about 4"D x 3"H that has been drying for almost a year. I was expecting the smaller bowl to crack, but it was undercut enough that it has not been a problem and hopefully will end up a chip/dip piece in a few months.

[Anthony Diodati]

I guess I still have a lot to learn.
The bowl is done.
was starting to look good too....
Thanks for the help though, these things will still help.
If I do this to a good piece of walnut, I'm going to be mad.

[Philip Duffy]

When I turn green wood blanks into bowls, I leave them about 1in + thick, with a tendon on the bottom, outside the bowl. To help keep the cracking to a minimum, I even drill a big hole in the tendon so that the thickness of the wood everywhere is just about the same. The, using either long term drying in a bag, or boiling and bagging, I end up with a crooked bowl. So, I stick the bowl on the chuck, facing inward so the jaws of the chuck are at the bottom of the bowl, bring up the tailstock in place and then turn the tendon round. Then, I reverse the bowl into the jaws of the chuck, turn it and finish in and outside and let it dry. Then, the tendon is turned off by mounting it against a dummy piece of wood in the jaws -cushioned of course- and the tailstock in place. I can get the tendon off to a tiny point of the tailstock which is then cut off by hand and sanded in my drill press. Sounds a bit time consuming but it works for me- - for over 15 years. Try it and love it. No vacuum chuck, no fuss, no bother. Just wear your face mask and a face shield and be happy. Philip

[Justin Stephen]

...I end up with a crooked bowl. So, I stick the bowl on the chuck, facing inward so the jaws of the chuck are at the bottom of the bowl, bring up the tailstock in place and then turn the tendon round.

This is what I do as well. However, I will add one caveat about tenon size. You don't want your tenon to be too big when you are doing your initial roughing because if your tenon is almost as large as your chuck's jaws can handle, the amount of metal that is gripping the wood will be much less. When you are roughing:

1. The blank you are working on will be heavier than at any other time in the bowl-making process where you are using a chuck, making a solid grip that much more important.
2. You will be taking the heaviest, or among the heaviest, cuts than at any other time in the bowl-making process, making a solid grip that much more important.

However, you don't want your tenon to be so small that you are close to the smallest diameter that your chuck's jaws can handle either. When you finish your roughing and allow the bowl to dry (by whatever method you choose to use), the bowl will warp. Some wood will warp more than others, but it's gonna warp. And the tenon is going to warp also. That means you are going to have to remove a significant amount of wood from the tenon to make it round again. This will also make the tenon even smaller than it was before you started the drying process. Usually it is not a lot smaller, but it will be smaller. If you were already close to the lower limit of your jaws before drying, you might end up being too small for the jaws to grip after drying and truing of the tenon. And if you don't have a smaller set of jaws to grip handy, you aren't going to be able to finish turning that bowl that day. Ask me how I know that. :)

[Justin Stephen]

As for DNA, a couple of gallons in the bottom of a 5-gallon bucket will probably get you started and me deep enough to cover your bowls. However, I would definitely have at least one spare gallon for topping up the level. Buy one of those nice after-market sealed lids for 5-gallon buckets to minimize evaporation loss. Yes, you will lose some each time from the DNA soaked into each bowl as well, but it doesn't happen too fast.

[Prashun Patel]

Sorry about your bowl. Been there.
Make lemonade: that looks like a mighty fine guinnea pig hoola-hoop.

[Pat Scott]

Anthony - I think it's Richard Raffan that will cut a slight groove on the inside of a bowl to use for remounting a dried rough out. It depends on how big of jaws you have, but the groove is placed where the jaws can expand into it. Obviously you don't want to make the groove too deep or you lose wall thickness, 1/16" or 1/8" is plenty. I'm not sure if this is what you had read about putting a tenon on the inside (it's a tenon, not tendon).

Personally I don't do this and think there are other better ways. I put my rough outs up against my 4-jaw chuck (with the jaws mostly closed) and bring up the tailstock. Then I re-true my tenon. I don't cushion the inside because it doesn't matter if the jaws leave a mark, I still have to turn the inside. While I'm at it, I usually turn the outside to get rid of the unevenness. I don't spend a lot of time with the outside because I still need to turn the bowl around and grab it with the tenon. Once I grab the bowl with the chuck and it's more secure, then I true up the outside and inside.

[Brian Kent]

I guess I still have a lot to learn.
The bowl is done.
was starting to look good too....
Thanks for the help though, these things will still help.
If I do this to a good piece of walnut, I'm going to be mad.

Congratulations on successfully creating a Diet Snack Bowl. Fill it with your favorite junk food, pick it up by the rim, bring it to the couch, and dig in to your 0 Calorie Diet Snack Bowl.

Edit: I just read Prashun's post and I think the Guinea Pig Hula Hoop is an even better idea. ;)

[Anthony Diodati]

Thanks to all, I'll read this over better later, I have turned too deep, where I blew out the bottom, or had the bottom too thin, where I blew out the bottom when I was power sanding, That was the Walnut one I saved, gluing a piece in .But this is the 1st time I cut into the side. Guess it's part of the learning curve. Think I was trying to get the sides on the thin side so it would dry easier.
I have seen threads stating the DNA is about $12.00 a gallon, I'll take all you got at that price. IIRC, at the hardware store, it was closer to $18.00.
Do you guys ever turn to finish size, and then soak in the DNA?...................................

[Steve Vaughan]

Sorry about the bowl, but you're right, it's a learning experience and likely all (or most) of us have been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt. Take that bottom leftover piece, if there's enough to it, and make a small dish. Then, take you newly formed ring - or hula hoop/diet snack bowl - and make a shadow box frame. There's gotta be a use somewhere for it if no more than hanging it on the wall to remind you of "if only..." I gots a whole stash of learning experiences laying around that represent a number of different techniques gone wrong.

[Thomas Canfield]

Looks like a good time for a "failure analysis" session to tell yourself what went bad. At least it eas green turned and turned fast and was a joy when it was going well. Trying to match the inside curve with the outside curve and avoiding the "sharp" curve at the bottom take practice. It might help to intentionally disect a green turned bowl to see the wall thickness profile.