HD Furniture Grade Ply, Fail...

[Derek Arita]

So I saw some "Furniture Grade" pine plywood at $30/sheet at HD and figured it was a good price, So I got some to try out on a shop cabinet project. The sheets I got were nice and straight. A couple of days later, I went out to the garage to start breaking down the sheets and found that the 3/4" sheets had warped, terribly. I figured it would be more trouble than it was worth to return the sheets and try again, so I decided to break these down and hope that the smaller pieces would show less warp.
As I was breaking down the sheets, I saw that the cut edges were not as clean as I'd hoped. When I looked up close, I saw that the top pine layer was flaking off like crazy. That outermost layer is as thin as paper and is brittle. This is the worst plywood I've ever seen and will no longer use it, even for shop cabinets. Beware the HD ply!

[Larry Frank]

I have stopped buying sheet goods at HD. The ones around me stack the plywood on metal racks with arms sticking out and the plywood is bowed between arms. This happens even with the pile of plywood being 50 sheets high.

I found another place which has the sheet goods piled on a flat surface and do not have the warpage issues.

[Derek Arita]

Yeah...I see that all the time at HD and L, although these sheets were laying on several 2x4s on the ground. They were flat when I loaded them up, but when I finally got them home, I thought I noticed a very slight bend. By a couple of days later, they were really warped. What a disappointment...here I thought I was getting a deal, only to find that once again, I got what I paid for.

[Lee Weed]

I saw that today and was going to buy some for shop cabinets also, the bundle said made in "Chile"

I'm glad that I held off.

[John Hays]

I've given up on trying to find adequate wood at a decent price at the big box stores, it just simply does not exist. Even if you do happen to find a straight/flat piece, it will be warped in a day or two after you get it home. Unfortunately the nearest lumber yard is over 30 miles away, so I'm stuck with getting my supply from the nearest HD.

With that said, I'm only making shop cabinets at the moment, so I decided to use their construction grade materials (since it's a little cheaper and in the same condition as their furniture grade stuff) and work around its short comings. In fact, I've gotten pretty good at planing down a 2x4 with my table saw... the result isn't perfect, but I'm able to get about 90% of the bow and/or twist out of them.

[Joe Angrisani]

.....They were flat when I loaded them up, but when I finally got them home, I thought I noticed a very slight bend. By a couple of days later, they were really warped. What a disappointment...here I thought I was getting a deal, only to find that once again, I got what I paid for.

I would take them back without hesitation, cut or not. Show them how they've taco'd, and let them know it's unacceptable in sheet goods.

[Harry Hagan]

I would take them back without hesitation, cut or not. Show them how they've taco'd, and let them know it's unacceptable in sheet goods.

HD and Lowe’s offer low quality sheet goods touted as “Furniture Grade” because customers tell them it’s acceptable by purchasing said garbage or not returning it when they realize they’ve made a mistake.

[Derek Arita]

Already sent feedback.

[Peter Quinn]

Wish I could say I'm surprised. My local store has been getting better recently on lots of fronts, good people in numerous departments, better grade building materials all around. But cabinet grade plywood is not one of the areas that has improved. Real plywood has a stamp indicating its grade. No grade stamp, it gets an F! All that junk from China and South America (not that all stuff from abroad is junk, but the borg seems to get the bottom tier) is for the birds. I had a few sheets move like reaction wood a few years back while breaking them down on a TS. Its aways nice when a sheet of plywood pinches a blade and warps in the middle of a cut. Made bad and put to bed wet. I've never taken a moisture meter to a Borg to buy plywood, but its probably not a bad idea. Better idea, you have already guessed it, stay out of the plywood aisle. Their MDF is not joy either.

[Larry Frank]

I have been buying the Arauco Plywood and been very happy with it. It is not available everywhere but I built all of my shop cabinets with it and used around 20 sheets.

[Mark Bolton]

If this reported 310% tariff on import ply would hit it would likely do a bit of good for the sheet goods industry as a whole. We had to do a lot of scouring to find sources for domestic ply for our shop. We were down to the wire with only two suppliers one only offering tigerply (import) and another offering CFP PureBond wich isnt great. A nearby HD is a Columbia distributor (purebond) but they were quoting like 103/sheet in full units for 3/4" maple prefinished 2 sides har har..

[Michael W. Clark]

HD PLY is worse now than before and more expensive. I bought some at L and it was only slightly better. I wish I could find a decent source for good shop/ paint grade that didnt break the bank.

[Jim Neeley]

A 310% tariff would triple the price of the cheap junk being sold by the borg, not improve it's quality. The borg will always sell the cheapest product available; that's their business model. We don't need the tariff to get the "benefit" you seek. It is available now.

If you want good plywood, call some nearby custom cabinet maker shops and ask them where they buy their good plywood (and hardwood) in small quantities. Go there and buy a piece and test it, as I did. A 5'x5' piece of 3/4" 13-ply zero-void wood cost me close to $60 here in Alaska; it's probably cheaper where you live due to shipping. Another source of information would be to talk with members of your nearest woodworking club / society.

Yes, it was more expensive than the borg. The difference is there's no warpage, no separation of plies and little splintering. I've now been using it for most of my ww projects for the last 4 years. I'll still occasionally buy a cheap POS sheet of plywood from the borg for utilitarian use. Just remember, if you buy "cheap POS" plywood it'll be "cheap" but it'll also generally be a "POS".

Jim

[Charlie Barnes]

HD PLY is worse now than before and more expensive. I bought some at L and it was only slightly better. I wish I could find a decent source for good shop/ paint grade that didnt break the bank.

Michael,

Drive across the river and check out Hardwood Lumber and More in Milford. I live outside of Amelia and they are my go to source for all plywood except for exterior/rough grades. Like everybody here, I've grown weary of fighting the junk from the big boxes. It may cost a little bit more, but I find that it's well worth it to have parts that stay flat and actually have a veneer that thick enough to sand.

Charlie

[Mark Bolton]

A 310% tariff would triple the price of the cheap junk being sold by the borg, not improve it's quality. The borg will always sell the cheapest product available; that's their business model. We don't need the tariff to get the "benefit" you seek. It is available now.

If you want good plywood, call some nearby custom cabinet maker shops and ask them where they buy their good plywood (and hardwood) in small quantities. Go there and buy a piece and test it, as I did. A 5'x5' piece of 3/4" 13-ply zero-void wood cost me close to $60 here in Alaska; it's probably cheaper where you live due to shipping. Another source of information would be to talk with members of your nearest woodworking club / society.

Yes, it was more expensive than the borg. The difference is there's no warpage, no separation of plies and little splintering. I've now been using it for most of my ww projects for the last 4 years. I'll still occasionally buy a cheap POS sheet of plywood from the borg for utilitarian use. Just remember, if you buy "cheap POS" plywood it'll be "cheap" but it'll also generally be a "POS".

Jim

Jim,
We are a custom shop. The HD reference was because CFP (a domestic) stated that they were a distributor in our area so for poops and giggles I pressed them for wholesale pricing. We pay 60/sheet for average quantities for 3/4" maple pre finished two sides. As I said HD came in at 103 and full units only.

The tariff would do wonders for the sheet goods industry as it would level the playing field and not allow shops, and individuals, to cave on their weak convicions to save a buck. We all do it. In a pinch, a tight job, "oh its just shop cabinets", and we choose to support the junk that is poisoning rivers, populations, communities, in other countries to supply us with cheap goods. If we stuck to our convictions those places would be put out of business but that notion is utopic.

We dont use import ply of any kind in our shop and thankfully we tracked down a source. How long it will last will be another issue.

Mark

[Michael W. Clark]

Charlie,
Thanks for the recommendation. I've been meaning to go in there and check them out.

[Jim Becker]

Given that "furniture/cabinet" grade 3/4" (18mm) plywood typically sells at plywood distributors for over a hundred bucks per sheet...there's got to be a 'catch' with something selling for $30 purporting to be "furniture grade". The 1/2" veneered cabinet grade product I buy from Industrial Plywood sells for $80-120 a sheet, depending on the veneer!

[Mark Bolton]

Given that "furniture/cabinet" grade 3/4" (18mm) plywood typically sells at plywood distributors for over a hundred bucks per sheet...there's got to be a 'catch' with something selling for $30 purporting to be "furniture grade". The 1/2" veneered cabinet grade product I buy from Industrial Plywood sells for $80-120 a sheet, depending on the veneer!

Without grade and species hard to say but I just gave a quick scan of one of our suppliers most recent sheet and I cant find any of the common stuff other than cherry and walnut in those price ranges. Birch, red oak, white oak, maple, and so on ranges from 50-70 depending on grade, species, and thickness.

For instance, 3/4 B2 VC Birch 54.80, 3/4 A1 VC Cherry 77, 3/4 A1 VC Walnut 85. All domestic

[Ole Anderson]

So I saw some "Furniture Grade" pine plywood at $30/sheet at HD

Say no more. Furniture grade ply, if there is such a spec, certainly isn't going to be available at HD and certainly not for $30 a sheet. Buyer beware. I stopped at my local specialized plywood dealer and asked if they had cabinet grade prefinished 3/4" ply. They responded that the prefinished maple ply that they carry is not cabinet grade, even though it is intended for cabinet case and shelf construction. And then it was like, $89 per sheet, retail. If you want the really good stuff you will pay.

I will say that I still have a full sheet of the 13 ply "Chinese Brich" that HD was selling probably 10 years ago at around $30 per sheet and it still as flat as can be even after being stored by itself vertically long dimension up. The mill must have had a good day.

[Mark Bolton]

Furniture grade ply, if there is such a spec
Right, there is none. There is no Furniture grade, nor cabinet grade. You have core choices, face grade/sawing/matching choices, of course species, and then ultimately the manufacturer(quality). But there is nowhere I have ever dealt with or seen that has "cabinet grade" listed on the price sheet. That would open your material up to wild swings in quality based on the sellers concept of what a cabinet "is" or should require.

Its always seemed to me certain suppliers may try to simplify the grading for retail customers calling their premium grades "cabinet grade". Maybe they try to head off some of the confusion that follows a guy looking at a price sheet with 8-10 different core and face grade options when trying to pick up a single sheet 3/4" maple ply. The lists can be pretty overwhelming at times if the supplier moves a lot of material and has dozens of grades on hand.

[Jim Neeley]

Jim,
We are a custom shop. The HD reference was because CFP (a domestic) stated that they were a distributor in our area so for poops and giggles I pressed them for wholesale pricing. We pay 60/sheet for average quantities for 3/4" maple pre finished two sides. As I said HD came in at 103 and full units only.

The tariff would do wonders for the sheet goods industry as it would level the playing field and not allow shops, and individuals, to cave on their weak convicions to save a buck. We all do it. In a pinch, a tight job, "oh its just shop cabinets", and we choose to support the junk that is poisoning rivers, populations, communities, in other countries to supply us with cheap goods. If we stuck to our convictions those places would be put out of business but that notion is utopic.

We dont use import ply of any kind in our shop and thankfully we tracked down a source. How long it will last will be another issue.

Mark

Mark,

I agree with you completely on the environmental issues. I also don't buy the cheap imported stuff but I'm not a commercial shop so am not trying to squeeze a buck since it's all stuff for me or as a gift.

My point was that to get the quality wood we don't need tariffs; we just need to buy quality products from reputable suppliers. As for voiding the market of evil products, that's an independent issue.

Jim

[Peter Kelly]

I have been buying the Arauco Plywood and been very happy with it. It is not available everywhere but I built all of my shop cabinets with it and used around 20 sheets.For what it was, the Aruco-branded material was quite good. Unfortunately, the mill that produced it as well as their plantation was destroyed in a forest fire earlier last year. The generic "Made in Chile" stuff HD replaced it with is vastly inferior.
http://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/news/woodworking-industry-news/Forest-Fire-Destroys-Arauco-Plywood-Plant-136658383.html

Wish I'd bought more while they had it :(

[Dick Mahany]

I've had marginal success with multiply "cabinet grade" from the big box stores. I've only used it for shop cabinets, tool bases, rolling carts and the like and it has been okay......not great, but not terrible either.

I learned to buy my premium ply at a local dealer that caters to the trades. I'm not a contractor, but they're glad to take my money anyway ;). The place isn't pretty inside, but they know their materials and how to handle it and can answer any questions that I have with confidence. Always got a quality product, and the price differential was well worth the increase in yield and overall quality of my finished pieces. It's been a pleasure to have access to prefinished ApplePly, real Baltic Birch, Cherry, QSWO, Maple, and numerous others ( they have Teak and other incredible woods, but they are unbelievably costly ) . Just be prepared to hand them you weekly pay check ;) and don't look back.

[Bryan Cramer]

I agree Big Box stores have poor quality plywood. Before I knew any better, I built a cabinet out of red oak plywood from a home center. Other than being veneered on only one side I thought it was good quality. It warped a little in my shop, but not bad. The veneer was book matched and looked nice once sanded until I applied a dark stain. The glue lines between the sheets of veneer showed through:(, just like glue smears that appear under stain beacuse the pigments can't absob into the glue. Lesson: STAY AWAY FROM FURNITURE GRADE HOME CENTER PLYWOOD! The construction stuff (Pine) works alright though. I have used it alot. Newbies let me tell you that $60+ plywood at a hardwood dealer is worth it. That ply is void free, reasonably flat and smoother. I was once told to bring an old chisel with to test the glues on the plys by trying to force them apart. I have never tried it though.

[Michael W. Clark]

Not to detract, but seems like there should be something of decent quality and not high dollar for shop projects or utility projects. If I have scraps I use that, but don't always have scraps large enough and I still want it to match. The stuff I just got at L was $48/sheet and was definitely not worth it. I didn't need "cabinet grade" for a shop project, but didn't want to use the "construction grade" either. HD was the same price, but the quality was even worse. The stuff from L was at least scratch and relatively void free, but it was definitely not flat. Had trouble getting a consistent rabbet depth due to the warping.

[Mark Bolton]

Mark,

I agree with you completely on the environmental issues. I also don't buy the cheap imported stuff but I'm not a commercial shop so am not trying to squeeze a buck since it's all stuff for me or as a gift.

My point was that to get the quality wood we don't need tariffs; we just need to buy quality products from reputable suppliers. As for voiding the market of evil products, that's an independent issue.

Jim

Jim,
I think were all on the same page. I personally wish more than anything that things like tariffs, laws, taxes, and so on were unnecessary because we all just "did the right thing" but it has never been the case and likely never will be.

As it pertains to sheet goods if the playing field were level with regards to all that goes into making the product I think the domestics may even be less expensive and then the imports would be forced to compete on quality which they may be able to beat us on, no idea. Even with that un-level field we as the consumer still have the power to make it right but it goes back to the in a pinch, tight job, its only shop cabinets, etc.. Making the hard decisions is just hard and in many cases I guess its too hard.

It'll come around...

Mark

[Mark Bolton]

Not to detract, but seems like there should be something of decent quality and not high dollar for shop projects or utility projects.

Michael,
If you check into your local sources you may find there is more there than you think. Our suppliers have a few species in shop grade. Glancing at the sheet for instance shop grade 1/2" birch is anywhere from 34-40 dollars depending on quantity. 3/4 shop grade birch is 44-52 depending on quantity. That said, shop grade may still be more than you need for your shop cabs. Some times the C grades can be cheaper and are decent for jigs and shop cabs.

Its still not 30 bucks a sheet but the days of 30 dollar a sheet ply are quickly going away in my opinion. I remember paying 45-55 a sheet for 3/4 birch 20 years ago (still have a book case from those days) and right now 3/4" B2 is about $60 and C2 is 32.

May be worth looking into.

Mark

[Brian Elfert]

A 310% tariff would triple the price of the cheap junk being sold by the borg, not improve it's quality. The borg will always sell the cheapest product available; that's their business model. We don't need the tariff to get the "benefit" you seek. It is available now.

If the prices on imported plywood went up by three times Home Depot would probably buy plywood from a US manufacturer. Now, this doesn't automatically mean the plywood would be any better. Home Depot could go to a US supplier and ask them to make cheap crappy plywood too. If Home Depot wants to buy millions in plywood don't you think someone would find a way to make the plywood cheaper to get the contract?