Drinking Glass Engraving

[david a graham]

I am interested in engraving drinking glasses and have been reading through the Universal, Trotec and Epilog information. What I haven't been able to understand is how difficult is engraving glassware? I don't have specific glasses in Mind but I am thinking highball glasses, etc. Could anyone point me in a direction to learn about the challenges or issues with doing this? I understand a rotary would be required, what I haven't discovered is wattage required etc.

Thanks

[Dan Hintz]

As with all materials, you should run a test block to determine the optimum settings for their specific machine.

[walter hofmann]

Hi david
the best glass to engrave is the cheapest . a crystal glass is a no no also some blue and green glasses dont work well.
I engrave single lines vertical in glass and porcellan war without a rotary just put it ina jig. as long as the glass is a normal diameter
you can do this . I use mostly the smal 40W machine and no masking tape
greetings waltfl

[Mike Null]

You can engrave glass with 25 watt machines and up. Having a rotary device enables you to keep the laser in focus around the circumference of the glass. The laser must be in constant focus in order to engrave with a consistent mark.

Not having a rotary device does not prevent you from engraving glasses but limits the area you can engrave.

[Nick Michalares]

I would be careful with laser engraving on glass. It tends to produce a rough surface with small glass shards on it which most find unacceptable. The best way to do it is to use the laserable sand masking tape available to laser the pattern on the glass, then sandblast the image. Of course it requires a sandblaster, too . . . .

[Martin Boekers]

I have seen many things posted here that do look pretty good laser etched.
Unless it's for a special event I find almost all of my customers don't want
to pay the difference for a sand etch. The main thing is to get accurate settings for
your material. Take a soft brush to your finished piece and it will "smooth" the roughness.

Again though.... a laser etch is no where near the quality of a nice sand etch.

[David Fairfield]

Yeah laser engraving glasses, I have done many many many. And then some more. :rolleyes: How difficult is it? It depends on the glass, the rotary tool, your tolerance for repetitive tasks, your graphics skills and so on. I can only tell you in my experience, the Epilog rotary tool is frustrating to use due to potential for slip, and due to glasses being slightly out of round, both issues fouls up the graphics. Over the years I developed a little stockpile of glasses that worked reliably, as well as some methods to prevent slip, all of which I gleaned from this forum (thanks again guys! :)) If the rotary tool worked perfectly, I would say it was simple & profitable, but it doesn't so it wasn't. As far as graphics goes, they need to be warped to compensate for curvature, taper, bulge etc. That takes a few sacrificial glasses, working trial and error. Not a big problem if you are comfortable with the warp and distort tools in your graphics program.

As mentioned above, quality wise, the lasering is not really optimal form of glass engraving. Sandblasting or acid etching produces a much finer result. If I get back into glassware, I will be looking at these methods. Until Epilog makes a better rotary tool, I don't want to laser any more glass.

Dave

[david a graham]

Excellent info - I thank each of you for your insight and information!

[Talley Boatwright]

I have done many of glasses on my Epilog Legend 36EXT 60watt. The best results is Dollar Store glasses, running images at 60% black, 50% speed and 50% power. A piece of steel wool will clean up any fragments remaining.

[Greg Holt]

.............................the Epilog rotary tool is frustrating to use due to potential for slip,...............


Chuck style rotary won't slip.

I have both styles of rotary and virtually never use the friction roller one.

[Talley Boatwright]

Chuck style rotary won't slip.

I have both styles of rotary and virtually never use the friction roller one.

What type of machine do you have? I would like to get a Chuck style for me Epilog. I have the Friction style and do not care for it. If I can find a Chuck style to convert over to the 8 pin plug that Epilog uses, I would get one to see how it works.

[David Fairfield]

Ditto. As far as I knew, Epilog didn't make a chuck type. If Epilog wised up and made a chuck type, or an adapter to convert that roller gadget to a chuck, that would be very good news. :)

Dave

[Steve Busey]

a crystal glass is a no no also some blue and green glasses dont work well.

Walter or anyone, could you elaborate? Why is crystal a no no? And what problems do the blue or green cause?

[Dan Hintz]

a crystal glass is a no no also some blue and green glasses dont work well.


Why is crystal a no no? And what problems do the blue or green cause?

Crystal is not a problem, so I don't know what Walter is talking about.

Colored glass is hit or miss... sometimes they engrave a near-white and the contrast is great, others the contrast is quite low.

[mike kunselman]

In my Universal VLS 3.50 I have found some very favorable results with glass. When going from the 1-Touch Photo to something like a pint glass in the rotary I can get a pretty stellar image. There's no way you could sandblast a photo like that. You are definitely limited when it comes to tapered glasses because of the change in diameters as it engraves, but with a little warping of the image you can get a great engraving. Something I didn't realize when I first got the rotary was that mugs with handles will hit the bottom of the engraver rather quickly if you have any kind of graphic that wraps around. I'll work up a sample to show you guys that doesn't have a client's face on it.

[Talley Boatwright]

Ditto. As far as I knew, Epilog didn't make a chuck type. If Epilog wised up and made a chuck type, or an adapter to convert that roller gadget to a chuck, that would be very good news. :)

Dave

Actually Dave, Epilog does make a Chuck Type. It is targeted towards their FiberMark Lasers but will work with C02 lasers. It is very expensive...i believe $1800 to $2400.

[Talley Boatwright]

Walter or anyone, could you elaborate? Why is crystal a no no? And what problems do the blue or green cause?

I personally stay away from laser etching Crystal. Crystals have more Lead content than silica which makes the glass dense...no air pockets. Cheap glass doesn't have lead just silica. Cheap glass allows the glass to fracture better during engraving due to the air pockets. I prefer sandblasting crystal for a better appearance and consistency with images.

[Shannon Bruce]

I am surprised by this. My experience is that crystal etches much cleaner than glassware....maybe I am doing something wrong, as I am very new to glass and crystal etching....but I have had wonderful results with both so far and it has increased our sales significantly! All I do to combat the shards from glassware is wash it with a 2 sided sponge, using the "scrubby" side to go over the engraving. I do agree that blue and green glassware seems to be thinner and cracks if I try to etch too large of a design. If I stick to something small however it holds up just fine.

[William Milligan]

I've done quite a few glasses...I do always run a test run first just to make sure it is going to work well...I generally use 100p and about 80s on my 75w epilog though sometimes I adjust a bit....I usually like to use painters tape and run a test strip before I do the finished product...just to make sure alignment, etc... is right...you only really get one shot at it... I've usually found the glasses at the dollar store are fine...they are inexpensive and work well...I've also gotten cheap glasses/mugs from wal-mart and other discount stores...they generally all perform well. Masking...I have compared results using masking and not using it. I've gotten some newsprint paper wet with some windex and run the project at times and other times have not. I do believe I get a cleaner finished product with the paper. I will say that if you do this you should make sure that you don't get the paper too wet. Once or twice I've gotten the paper too wet and it dripped down to my rollers making the glass slip while etching. Some may have had other results but I have found that I can't use a very detailed image on glass...you just don't get the detail on it. I use simple clip art, logos and text....all of these usually look great. One thing to remember is that you are really only going to get two colors...either etched or not...so you won't really get any depth or color variation out of the image. On colored glass, I would have to agree...I DO really like to look of the etching on colored glass but don't ALWAYS get the result I'd like...I tend to lean towards colored glass if I can make it work for a project because you get a more contrasting product (i.e. white etching with cobalt blue background)...but again..... Whenever I am doing a glass project, I usually ALWAYS get one or two extra glasses to run as tests...sometimes I'll etch the logo a few times on a glass to test for size, etc....to see what I think looks best...and then there is always the oops factor....that glass that slips or you just didn't put into the roller quite right and the logo is a little askew....I always try to have an extra just in case....when I get them from the dollar store they are only a dollar anyway so they aren't costing me much.. Having said all of that....what I have presented is MY experience...there are a lot of folks on this board with a lot more experience then I have...I've found that it helps to get as much input from these experts as possible!

[Dan Hintz]

Cheap glass allows the glass to fracture better during engraving due to the air pockets.

This is incorrect. The mark you see on engraved glasses is due to stress fractures... the laser heats the glass to the melting point, then as it cools, the stress builds up. As it approaches a normal temp again, the stress finally gives in and you get a fracture. The air pocket / impurity inclusion wive's tale was originally started in an early issue of The Engraver's Journal and has lived on ever since. I have posted pics on here before of engravings I've done on Ridel leaded glasses... they make a very high-quality leaded glass, no impurities or inclusions, and my engraving came out just fine.

[Talley Boatwright]

This is incorrect. The mark you see on engraved glasses is due to stress fractures... the laser heats the glass to the melting point, then as it cools, the stress builds up. As it approaches a normal temp again, the stress finally gives in and you get a fracture. The air pocket / impurity inclusion wive's tale was originally started in an early issue of The Engraver's Journal and has lived on ever since. I have posted pics on here before of engravings I've done on Ridel leaded glasses... they make a very high-quality leaded glass, no impurities or inclusions, and my engraving came out just fine.

Incorrect? Dan, did you not just re-literate what I previously explain? Where as you engraving on Riedel high-quality leaded glass ( No Impurities on Inclusions) compared to Dollar Tree glasses. There is a reason for them to be cheaper due more impurities. Now who would know more about quality of glasses to engrave on besides an Glass Etcher or Glass Blower? Most customers do not have a clue, neither does a novice glass engraver or etcher.

[Dan Hintz]

Incorrect? Dan, did you not just re-literate what I previously explain? Where as you engraving on Riedel high-quality leaded glass ( No Impurities on Inclusions) compared to Dollar Tree glasses. There is a reason for them to be cheaper due more impurities. Now who would know more about quality of glasses to engrave on besides an Glass Etcher or Glass Blower? Most customers do not have a clue, neither does a novice glass engraver or etcher.

No, I didn't. You said:

Cheap glass allows the glass to fracture better during engraving due to the air pockets.

I personally stay away from laser etching Crystal. Crystals have more Lead content than silica which makes the glass dense...no air pockets.
Engraving on glass has nothing to do with air pockets in the glass. The reason is as I mentioned earlier. That's the reason both poor and high-quality glass engraves. You claim to stay away from lead-filled, dense crystal as the engraving is of lower quality than cheap glass with air pockets. If that's what you're seeing then your settings are wrong. And to suggest otherwise to novice glass engravers on this board is doing them a disservice.

Now who would know more about quality of glasses to engrave on besides an Glass Etcher or Glass Blower?
Define "glass etcher". A "glass blower" could likely tell you the quality of the glass he turns out, but a laser engraver (glass etcher?) who knows what he's doing will be able to tell you more about how it engraves than the glass blower ever could. Nor would I expect the blower to know how the glass will etch unless he is also engraves with a laser. It's a poor comparison, and I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by making the comparison in the first place.

[Talley Boatwright]

I see that we are going specifics. First off, if you are using a laser to mark ( Abrasion of the surface) glassware, that would be etching. Engraving is referred to cutting into the surface by the means of sandblasting or diamond bits. So if an individual is working with glass on a daily basis, they soon know which properties of glass would provide better artwork. A glass blower would know what they have placed in the glass to create certain charteristics, such as colors, hardness, and etc. So I don't know by me making that comparison went over you head. But some comparisons you shouldn't have to dumb it down! The initial post was a simple explanation...not for someone to prove a self proclaim doctoral in glass properties. Relax and learn...teach what you can.

[Dan Hintz]

The initial post was a simple explanation...not for someone to prove a self proclaim doctoral in glass properties. Relax and learn...teach what you can.

Your initial post was not just a simplified explanation, it was wrong in its conclusion. You outright said a cheap glass provided a better quality of engraving (fine, "etching", if you want to be pedantic about it) than crystal. That was incorrect, and my response was to make sure the OP (or the next person to read this thread) does not go away thinking crystal was not a good substrate to use.

Sure, I often provide more details in my responses than needed for someone who wants to just push a button and get the job done, but it was hardly a doctoral thesis (if you want that, you can search on a thread I posted a few years back showing graphs of how deep a CO2 laser is absorbed into the surface of glass, how it fractures, etc.). I do "teach what I can" (despite your insistence one sentence earlier that I shouldn't)... and considering your incorrect conclusions, maybe it's you that should "relax and learn".

[Tim Bateson]

Boy... It's hard to jump in after that volley, :cool: but to an earlier post...


...the Epilog rotary tool is frustrating to use due to potential for slip, and due to glasses being slightly out of round, both issues fouls up the graphics....

Agreed - Been there, will do that again... For glasses and cylinders, I have built simple round weights that I place inside. As the glass/cylinder turns, so does the weight, keeping the object in good contact with the friction rollers. Sometimes I even place a wide rubber band around an object. The rubber to rubber helps to insure a good grip.

[Mike Null]

I do little glass engraving as I prefer sand carving but when I do engrave I find that I get a better result with lower power and resolution. My goal is for a frosted look rather than a fractured look. That is attainable with glass or crystal with just a bit of experimentation.

[Bill Cunningham]

I find that sandblasting does a decent job on text, but lacks the ability to etch fine details. however, a laser can do exceptional photographs once you spend hours and hours and hours and hours developing a technique..
252520

[David Rust]

Bill, That's pretty nice work...

[Neal Schlee]

I do quite a bit of Glass engraving with a rotary. The best technique I've found is to cut pcs of paper towel slightly larger that the laser area. I lay these pcs. on the glass where it is to be engraved, then spray the paper towel with water, you want the PT saturated so it conforms to the glass tightly, work out any air bubbles, then engrave. You need to play with your settings but you should get near sand blasted quality but with less the depth.

[Bill Cunningham]

Bill, That's pretty nice work...

Thanks David..I try

[John Bion]

That was incorrect, and my response was to make sure the OP (or the next person to read this thread) does not go away thinking crystal was not a good substrate to use.

Thanks Dan, this is precisely what I took home from the post, I'm grateful you mentioned this about better glass/crystal, I will try find your old posts, sounds interesting.
regards, John

[Dan Hintz]

Not a problem, John. While cleansing one of my camera's Flash cards last night (was taking some photos of pens I just finished), I came across the original photos I took of the Riedel glass. It looked much better than what I remember from the thread, so let me know if you need me to repost.

[John Bion]

Thanks Dan, that would be appreciated, I am sure others here would like to see them too. I have looked through quite a few older posts but only found one glass with a sock in it, which looked great.
Regards John
PS: Drinking Californian wine, you may not notice a difference after the sock was in it, but if you tried some wine from the Cape (South Africa)... That would be different... ;)

[Rodne Gold]

We use diswashing liquid and let it dry or laser when its slightly tacky , seems to control or damp the fracturing. I also use a rub'n buff type wax (white or silver) on the engraved section to give it some contrast. We also often use a dark shade of grey rather than solid black to do glass , it produces "spots" which seem to have less fracturing than solid type engraving..
Here are some good resources
http://www.epiloglaser.com/downloads/whitepapers/glass_tips_whitepaper.pdf
http://www.trotec.net/_Engraving+and+Cutting/_en-US/_308+Tips+-+Glass.htm