Aigner Vectral

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Just saw this thing on Felder's website,

http://www.felder-tooling.us/media/catalog/product/cache/11/image/800x800/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/i/m/1341230889_acaec7ada89ee7af41d14948706338921.jpg

It's Aigner of course, Vectral is what they call it. I attached a video link. Just curious if anybody bought this. I could think of other ways to make the cuts they do in the videos, but it's an interesting idea. Is it useful?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_4JJ5bFlaU

[Peter Quinn]

Very interesting device. I'm sure it's very well made and shockingly expensive given the maker. I guess that would take away some of the awkwardness of ripping on a large slider. I do question why the operator has the blade raised so high to cut such thin material. I'm sure it's to emphasize the sales pitch, but I wouldnt generally run the blade on a slider what looks to be well over 2" high to cut 3/4" melamine. The setup IMO represents most of the danger that device is eliminating, so they create a problem then sell a solution? Try lowering the blade first. And a little careful planning can avoid ripping such small parts to begin with. I'd use the carraige to move e thin strips past the blade with the fence as a depth stop, then cut these slices to lenght as a crosscut, call the last piece waste, hands never get near the blade. And using a shop made push block that rides the fence would solve the same problem for about $.29, you would never catch me playing shuffle board with a 14" panel saw to begin with.

It looks like there was some angle cutting feature when affixed to the carraige? I'd like to see more about that.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I thought the video was pretty unrealistic too. Seems like I end up using the short rip fence, slid back to about the front edge of the blade, then use the slider to move stock through the blade for repetitive small cuts, like you said, that way there is no fence holding a loose piece of wood to a blade. Easier to work on the left side of the blade IMHO.

I'm just curious I guess, this was the last item listed on the saw attachment page, so I doubt it is very popular, but maybe somebody finds it indispensable?

Didn't catch an angle feature, going to go look again...

[Joe Hillmann]

I have never used a sliding table saw so I may be way off but it looks like you could do the same job with a stop block and a miter gauge. And the beginning of there video just looks dangerous.

[Brian Kincaid]

I have seen so many of these where they leave an offcut or (gasp) workpiece sitting right beside the spinning blade, then plow the next piece into it.

Skip to 2:02 and carefully watch the workpiece still on the saw. (glad he was using a riving knife but still...)

Why didn't the operator set up the jig to push the workpiece all the way THROUGH the blade? Then it is a non-issue.
-Brian

[Stephen Cherry]

All these things look excessive, but it's cheaper than a new thumb. Basically, it's going to help in the last cut, as Peter mentions. In my opinion, it's the downside of the sliding table saw for crosscut- what to do when the workpiece becomes too short to be referenced to the fence, and also clamped to the slide.

[David Kumm]

I saw old Mr Aigner demonstrate it and while more expensive than I would spend the is no equal to Aigner stuff in build quality and safety design. They also make a finger with magnets that you set right of the blade to direct short offcuts away. I don't know why that isn't used here. Their outfeed tables and shaper accessories are really great. Dave

[Joe Hillmann]

All these things look excessive, but it's cheaper than a new thumb. Basically, it's going to help in the last cut, as Peter mentions. In my opinion, it's the downside of the sliding table saw for crosscut- what to do when the workpiece becomes too short to be referenced to the fence, and also clamped to the slide.

You say that is the downside of sliding saws but how would you do the same cut on a regular table saw? At a certain point the piece is just too short to safely cut any more.

[ian maybury]

I hadn't seen that before. Not cheap, is it?

I'm relatively new to a slider, and there are genuine issues in cutting narrow strips between the blade and a rip fence - but my initial reaction was to the effect of 'why is the guy in the video cutting off the rip fence?' When the slider dogma is that we should seek to cut off the slider.

Against that it becomes more difficult to cut strips as the work becomes very narrow using the slider too - the usual parallel bars presumably don't support the work well enough once it becomes thin enough to flex between the support points/ends of the bars. (while a rip fence fully supports the work) There's also the little matter of the perhaps (depending on how the saw is set up) small difference in levels between the slider and the table which can become problematical when cutting narrow pieces off the slider. (tipping can occur)

That said it should (unless i'm missing something) equally be possible to build a fixture that mounts off the slider that achieves the same result, or is it?.

Does anybody know if there's any more by way of instructional videos or other material for the Vectral about? Nothing much seems to come up on Google...

ian

[Stephen Cherry]

You say that is the downside of sliding saws but how would you do the same cut on a regular table saw? At a certain point the piece is just too short to safely cut any more.

It seems to me that it is one of the downsides of the slider- the last crosscut is awkward. (I'm a big fan of the sliding saw though- I think that they have saved a lot more injury than the saws with brakes.)

On a normal saw, it seems like you could use a crosscut sled with a stop, and a destaco clamp to hold the wood to the stop side of the sled. Personally, what the person on the video is doing gives me a little bit of the heebee jeebees. Doing a short crosscut against the fence. I would be much more comfortable with having the fence slid back so that it does not overlap with the blade. I've tried the table saw projectile thing, and really do not like it.

[Peter Quinn]

I'd like to add (having now watched that video several times on the large screen) if you are going to use the slider fence like that guy in the video you had better have the riving knife in place. Danger will Robinson. Just like a traditional cabinet saw with miter gauge you never want the off cut trapped between the fence and blade. Thats the reason the fence on the slider pulls back so easily. I've cut hundreds of thousands of parts on a slider, using the same basic technique, minus the uber pusher, just pull back the fence and let them drop off. I've fashioned one of the tapered board with a magnet jigs to direct multiple cuts away from the blade, stole that from the aigner book directly, very fine idea. I still fail to see the rational for the uber pusher. Its verging on Rube Goldberg. Pull back the fence, lower the blade, most of the problem solved. In Europe most guys seem work off the back of the sliders outrigger fence. And that makes sense for lots of cuts. But if you work off the front of the fence, clamp a board to the outrigger fence that goes past the blade and stops just short of the rip fence, you can safely and easily push the off cuts (which are the keeper in this situation) past the blade for safe retrieval. In a few rare cases I've been cutting something that is too precious to throw out the last piece on each strip. Parts from maccaser ebony for instance, or jobs which involve 8000 pieces of walnut, so the drops add up. I'd still cut everything off the sliding carriage then go back and do the shorts with a different set up.

Also, that guy could use the lower side of the fence so his hand is not trapped between large blade and tall fence. Most slider fences have t slots to run either hight or low. Why would he be cutting small narrow parts off the rip fence with the blade so high and the tall fence? He needs all the safety devices he can get working like that.