Bowl gouge size

[Victor Robinson]

I've mostly been using carbide cutters to this point but want to get into traditional tools. I went inexpensive on the roughing gouge, skew, and parting tool for now, but would like my gouges to be of high quality from the beginning. The grace period is over - I'm sufficiently hooked to commit to quality tools.

I'm on a midi lathe and most of my spindle turning is no larger than 3x3x12 and the bowls and boxes I will be doing will mostly be 6" diameter or less. I think a 3/8" spindle gouge makes sense, but not sure whether to mate that with a 3/8" or 1/2"V bowl gouge as I get started. Your thoughts, masters of the spinning wood?

[Curt Fuller]

Pretty hard to beat Doug Thompson's bowl gouges, V or U flute in 3/8". Make your own handle and you have a great gouge that will last a looong time.

[Alan Trout]

On a mini lathe you can get by with a Thohmpson 1/2V but I would go with the 3/8" V if it were me. It will give less stress on the lathe. Give Doug a call or e-mail and I bet he will give you a good answer.

Alan

[Roger Chandler]

If it were me, and your statements about what you anticipate are accurate, then I would go with a 1/2" bowl gouge .....a pretty good overall choice, and it will do a 10 or 12" bowl if you find you want to do one occasionally. For boxes you need to get a square scraper.......that will help immensely with straight sided walls and flat bottoms. Good luck!

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have a 12" midi and agree with Alan that a Thompson 3/8" V. I do use my 1/2" on it but the 3/8" doesn't load it as much. My problem is I tend to get heavy handed with the 1/2" and can bog it down. I do 10" to 11 1/2" bowls on it with no problems.

[John Keeton]

I use a 1/2" D-Way for most work, but my Thompson 3/8"V is a wonderful tool for smaller projects and for detail work - getting into tighter spots, etc. I can actually pull a smoother cut with it in those situations.

[Kathy Marshall]

+1 on the Thompson 3/8 V gouge. I have several Thompson gouges but the 3/8" is my go to tool unless I'm doing some heavy roughing and then I go to my 1/2.
If you talk to Doug, ask him about the travel set, it comes with a handle and four 3/8" tools (bowl gouge, spindle gouge, skew, etc) that store inside the handle. Makes a great starter set.

[Thom Sturgill]

I started on my 1220 midi with both a 3/8 and 1/2, both from Doug and both the Jimmy Clewes deep V. These are still my goto gouges. I recently purchased a D-Way gouge and am impressed with its quality. I agree with a scraper or two for boxes AND bowls. I routinely use both a square (actually slightly rounded) and a rounded scraper.

One thing that Jimmy Clewes teaches in bowl turning is to use both a V gouge (1/2") sharpened with a fingernail grind and one sharpened with a conventional grind (3/8") often called a bottom feeder. They cut differently and the conventional grind will work much better in the transition area between the sides and bottom and along the bottom while the fingernail grind is superior on the sides and on the outside.

For spindle work I would look at BOTH a standard 3/8 spindle gouge and a 3/8 detail gouge. Again, slightly different grinds and they are used a bit differently. My detail gouge is a P&N and I find it holds a good edge. While I have a few of Doug's spindle gouges, I find I use my Sorby's more, and even the Packard gouges are quite good.

[Victor Robinson]

Never thought of it from a stress on the lathe standpoint, but that makes perfect sense.

It was already a given that it was going to be from Doug, haha. I'll go with a 3/8"V for now with the expectation of adding the 1/2" if I start getting my hands on larger blanks and get brave enough to turn larger.

Thanks much for the input!

[Victor Robinson]

I started on my 1220 midi with both a 3/8 and 1/2, both from Doug and both the Jimmy Clewes deep V. These are still my goto gouges. I recently purchased a D-Way gouge and am impressed with its quality. I agree with a scraper or two for boxes AND bowls. I routinely use both a square (actually slightly rounded) and a rounded scraper.

One thing that Jimmy Clewes teaches in bowl turning is to use both a V gouge (1/2") sharpened with a fingernail grind and one sharpened with a conventional grind (3/8") often called a bottom feeder. They cut differently and the conventional grind will work much better in the transition area between the sides and bottom and along the bottom while the fingernail grind is superior on the sides and on the outside.

For spindle work I would look at BOTH a standard 3/8 spindle gouge and a 3/8 detail gouge. Again, slightly different grinds and they are used a bit differently. My detail gouge is a P&N and I find it holds a good edge. While I have a few of Doug's spindle gouges, I find I use my Sorby's more, and even the Packard gouges are quite good.

Thanks Thom. I was wondering about the Clewes deep V. I don't know enough to know whether I'd prefer that over the standard V so I was just going to go with standard. Would you mind describing the advantage of the deep?

[Victor Robinson]

+1 on the Thompson 3/8 V gouge. I have several Thompson gouges but the 3/8" is my go to tool unless I'm doing some heavy roughing and then I go to my 1/2.
If you talk to Doug, ask him about the travel set, it comes with a handle and four 3/8" tools (bowl gouge, spindle gouge, skew, etc) that store inside the handle. Makes a great starter set.

Ooo, considering I'll be getting a 3/8 spindle and bowl, and possibly detail, the travel set makes some sense! Might have to think about that, though I'm set with a skew and was going to make my own handles.

[Kathy Marshall]

Ooo, considering I'll be getting a 3/8 spindle and bowl, and possibly detail, the travel set makes some sense! Might have to think about that, though I'm set with a skew and was going to make my own handles.
There may be other options if you don't need a skew, maybe a detail gouge or a scraper or just a tool blank to grind your own, I'm sure Doug will let you know what the options are. I believe the handle is 12" but might be 14", which works great for me, especially on the smaller turnings.

[Reed Gray]

For bowls, you do want 2 gouges. Any of the V and U gouges with a 40 to 45 degree bevel work great on the outside. and on the inside till you get to the transition and for going across the bottom (more so for deep bowls and less so for shallow bowls). I prefer the finger nail grind, but the swept back grinds work well also. Through the transition and across the bottom is where you need the specialized 'bottom feeder' type with a 60 degree bevel and little sweep. Also, you want more of a C flute rather than V. Here is also where I love Doug's fluteless gouges. I also love scrapers for roughing and for the clean up shear cuts inside and outside to remove the ripples when your gouges are not working properly. A 1 inch wide by 3/8 thick will take care of anything I can throw at it. Round nose for general use, or swept back for inside work. Smaller ones are more of a specialized tool for boxes to me. I like the bigger tools as they fit my hands better, and are more stable for roughing cuts. 1/2 inch is medium and 3/8 feels too delicate for my tastes. Unless I am doing detail work, which is seldom.

robo hippy

[Justin Stephen]

I also turn on a midi-lathe, and I use my 1/2" far, far more than my 3/8".

[Victor Robinson]

For bowls, you do want 2 gouges. Any of the V and U gouges with a 40 to 45 degree bevel work great on the outside. and on the inside till you get to the transition and for going across the bottom (more so for deep bowls and less so for shallow bowls). I prefer the finger nail grind, but the swept back grinds work well also. Through the transition and across the bottom is where you need the specialized 'bottom feeder' type with a 60 degree bevel and little sweep. Also, you want more of a C flute rather than V. Here is also where I love Doug's fluteless gouges. I also love scrapers for roughing and for the clean up shear cuts inside and outside to remove the ripples when your gouges are not working properly. A 1 inch wide by 3/8 thick will take care of anything I can throw at it. Round nose for general use, or swept back for inside work. Smaller ones are more of a specialized tool for boxes to me. I like the bigger tools as they fit my hands better, and are more stable for roughing cuts. 1/2 inch is medium and 3/8 feels too delicate for my tastes. Unless I am doing detail work, which is seldom.

robo hippy

Thanks Reed. Let's say one was going to get both 1/2" and 3/8" bowl gouges. Would you make the larger or smaller one the bottom-feeder (and therefore a U)?

[Thom Sturgill]

Simply that it gives a longer side edge, more like a 5/8" - disadvantage is that it clogs easier. Its what I started bowl turning with.

My point is that you need two gouges for each activity. 2 bowl gouges and 2 spindle gouges - for efficiency's sake. A turner that I took lessons from uses only one spindle gouge and is constantly reshaping it and he goes through a gouge a year. I think he would get much better use for his money if he kept two gouges.

[John Keeton]

Of course, all of this depends on the work you desire to do. Each turner will have a different assortment of tools, with various grinds.

I do very few bowls - mostly artsy type stuff. My gouge assortment includes two 1/2" D-Way ground identical so I don't have to go to the wheel as often, a 1/2" Thompson U (which I will use on the transition when needed)the 3/8" Thompson V, and the following Thompson spindle gouges - 3/8", 1/2", 3/8" detail (go to gouge), and two 1/4" detail (one ground with a sharper nose.) I really like a good edge, so I take frequent light sweeps on a CBN 180 wheel. It removes very little metal if done quickly - almost like a hone.

[Prashun Patel]

Reed and the others have way more experience than I do.

However, I have a 12" MIDI lathe and have a Thompson 1/2"U and 5/8"V bowl gouge. I primarily make bowls in the 8"-12" range. I don't find either to bog down the lathe. I love them both.

A 5/8" is great for bringing blanks into round quickly. It has a surprising amount of finesse inside bowls as small as 6". The only danger is that it is aggressive.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about a bottom feeder. As yr technique develops (and I say that with modesty) there is less of an abrupt transition between wall and floor; they become one.

I find I can use the U or the V on either inside or outside, but marginally, I find the U to excel on the outside, and the V to excel on the inside.

[Robert Henrickson]

I prefer U flutes -- Vs seem to clog an aggravating amount. I have a gouge or two with sharp Vs that I bought early in my turning -- they haven't been touched for years. For turning bowls, I use a sweepback grind. Depending on the interior profile, I may grind away some of the heel of the bevel to ease following the inside curve. Doesn't have any effect on riding the bevel later, doesn't shorten gouge life, and saves the cost of a second gouge.

[Reed Gray]

If you were going with the Thompson, for the bottom feeder type, I used the U shaped gouge. For size, I don't really know what would fit you best. I guess main consideration would be which type of tool rest are you using. Main reason, on the outside, it is easy to move the tool rest close to the wood as you cut. On the inside, if you use a straight tool rest, you can end up with your gouge extended out a ways. With a curved bowl rest, you can keep it closer to the wood. The bottom feeders are finish cut gouges, and not roughing gouges intended for heavy stock removal. With a 1/2 inch gouge, going out 2 inches isn't much, but with a 3/8 inch gouge, you can feel chatter/flexing. With a 5/8 inch gouge, maybe 3 to 4 inches, depending on how hefty of a handle you have. I do have a couple of 3/8 inch gouges, and almost never use them. No real answer I guess, but I would go with 2 of the 1/2 inch gouges. My first bottom feeder type was from an old 'artisan set', the in house brand from Craft Supplies, and was a 1/2 inch one that I never used after I got some Thompson gouges.

robo hippy

[Victor Robinson]

So all turners do things the same way, eh? :cool:

[Brian Kent]

So all turners do things the same way, eh? :cool:

Where is that "like" button? :D

[Reed Gray]

I have problems doing things the same way twice in a row!!!!!

robo hippy

[Victor Robinson]

In all seriousness, thanks everyone for all of your advice. There is a lot of great info here, not just for me but for future newbies selecting gouges.

I believe I've settled on a 3/8"V, 1/2"U, and 3/8"spindle. That should do for now. I may add a detail gouge later, but having these three will allow me to get a feel for what I like. I may have to adjust my collection later but that's part of the game. Thanks again for all of the advice - I'm looking forward to slicing some of the time rather scraping all of the time.

[Reed Gray]

Victor,
Maybe I am not the only one, but I have never been able to see the difference between the 'spindle' gouges, and a 'detail' gouge, unless by spindle gouge it is meaning the 'spindle roughing gouge'. Spindle gouges of the detail type tend to be rather pointy, with shallow flutes, and are great for beads and coves.

robo hippy