Help me spend $800-1000 on hand tools

[Jared Walters]

I'm actually a beginner. For years now I have been interested in furniture making, and now I allocated some money to get started. I have crazy noise restriction, so I can only use hand tools. This is fine because its what really interests me anyway.

So what tools should I buy to get started with my $800-1000. I only want excellent quality tools, even if that means just buying a few at first and adding some more every couple paychecks.

From what I gathered I need some good measuring tools and good chisels. I know top quality planes are expensive, so is there any exceptionally versatile one I could buy that would be adequate as my only one? I already have a basic workbench, but no vise. Unfortunately that is all I have, so I need everything you can think of haha.

I look forward to advice from experienced woodworkers. Please be specific, I'm overwhelmed.

[Charles McKinley]

I would start at the Library. There are threads here that give list of books to look for. The second thing I would do is go to a couple of classes where you get to try out some different tools.

Going new and high quality it comes down to what fits you hands better and what you want to do. Excellent quality does not have to mean new. A new egg beater drill is much more expensive than a good vintage Stanley or Miller Falls and the quality will not be necessarily higher. As Chris recommends use a reputable dealer until you have a better idea of what you are looking for.

What type of furniture do you want to build?

I received "The Anarchist Tool Chest" book and DVD by Chris Schwartz from Lost Art Press. There are some other books that describe the tools and how to use them.

Do you know how to sharpen?

I really can't emphasize enough how important it is to actually use some of the tools and make a decision on what you like and works for you.

Sorry for more questions than answers but more information would be helpful. A Lee Valley catalog is a good place to start and Lie-Nielsen web site (if they have a hard copy catalog I would get it too.)

Get some wood, build something and decide based on what it needed for the project. There are many ways to do the same thing in wood working so you don't need a gadget for each operation.

You don't say where you are. You may be able to visit a Creeker and try some things out.

[Brian Kent]

1 plane - a Lee Valley Low Angle Jack. $225.
Lee Valley carcass saw - cross cut. $76.
If these are too expensive, ask right here about rehabbed saw and #5 plane.
I like my 2 cherries chisels but others prefer Narex for the cost or Lee Valley or other premium chisels.
Stanley combination square. Exacto knife for cost, make a prettier marking knife later.

Oh, and welcome, Jared.
Brian

ps. We really like spending other people's money and we will think you said $800 plus $1000 instead of $800 to $1000 :)

[paul cottingham]

First off, welcome.
Secondly....
you need to be able to sharpen. get a combo stone 1000/4000, i would add an 8000 as well, but many would argue agains that. get an eclipse guide or the veritas one. practice.
if you only buy one plane, get the veritas LA jack.it is a great all around, multipurpose plane. you can add higher angle blades to your kit later.
the LV carcass saws are fantastic for the money, as are the narex chisels. get the small set.
measuring and marking tools are essential. get some decent rulers, a marking knife, and a marking guage. I like the wheel marking ones from LV.
get a good combo square as well. spend good money on this.
drills and drill bits. i'm lazy, so i like cordless drills. a decent eggbeater is a good choice as well.
get a decent hammer.
get some scrapers, and a good burnisher. learn to turn a hook.
and buy clamps. then buy more clamps.
i've missed something, im sure.....
oh, and buy the anarchists tool chest. as good a tome on hand tool woodworking as i've read, mind you, i'm no expert.

[Jared Walters]

I live in Phoenix. I want to start with small pieces like end tables and coffee tables. I have been doing lots of Internet research. I honestly am reluctant to visit a store and talk to professionals. I have found that small stores, especially the ones that cater to hobbies, are not very welcoming to young people. I don't enjoy going into a shop, asking questions, and being treated like I'm stupid while getting the impression that the owner feels like I'm wasting their time. Also I don't want to be handed a plane and just kind of hold it and look at it without really knowing what makes it so great. Sure the shopkeeper could tell me, but that's a biased source. That's why I prefer to ask on forums.

I just kind of want to get some tools and get started and practice basic techniques? I don't want to dig through ebay for vintage planes to restore. I even read something from Chris Schwartz that advised against it. it was something along the lines of "do you want to spend your time woodworking or repairing tools?". I know that the choice is endless and everyone has different needs as their talents develop. But surely there are some must haves in a woodworkers tool collection that I will always have use for that can get me started. And if I buy these new and high quality, then I won't have to rebuy them later.

Let me just say that this is not some hobby I will try and get bored of. My whole life I have admired high quality furniture and the people who build it. Something about the feel and the appearance of beautiful wood is captivating to me. When I designed and successfully built my simple workbench out of plywood and 2x4s it gave me an incredible sense of pride. I can only imagine how great it would be to make something that's actually nice and use only hand tools to do it. Basically what I'm saying is that I'm done researching, I'm sure I want to invest in this hobby, I don't need to dip a toe in. I will buy some books to help me with design and techniques, but I want to read them while I work... I'm hands on that way.

Moving on... I hear wonderful things about Veritas, even more than Lie-Nielsen recently it seems. Mainly because their practices in innovation. I really wanted to buy American made products (I always try to whenever possible), but I'm okay with Canadian I guess. I also heard that Starrett is unrivaled in measuring equipment, so I was thinking I might want to buy one of their 12" combination squares.

What specifically might you recommend for other tools? Maybe a chisel set, dovetail saw, rip and crosscut saws? What type of plane should be my first?

Also should I sharpen with water stones? I was thinking I could also use sandpaper stretched over a granite floor tile?

[Charles McKinley]

Forgot: WELCOME TO THE CREEK! it is filled with really nice people and a depth of knowledge.

Spending your money:
Carcass saw
Jack pane with 3 blades (one to hog off wood, smooth, shooting board)
Low angle block plane
1/2 inch chisel
Veritas marking gage
large coarse diamond plate, 1000, 4000, 8000 water stones
4 in hand rasp/file
sliding bevel
hand-stitched rasp
spoke shave
draw knife
12" combination square (Starrett or Brown and Sharp used)
hold fast
card scraper
clamps

These are suggestions.

Start building and buy as needed.

Make saw benches, bench hook, winding sticks, shooting board

[John Dykes]

Hmmmm…

Buying tools is (comparatively) easy. Sharpening them is a bit tougher, tuning them a bit more so – using them effectively is the real challenge – and, if you want to build furniture, your actual goal. It is easy to get side-tracked with the love we men have for tools - and never do anything with them.... Or at least it is for me! So just buying quality tools isn’t going to get you as far down that path as you might think. You’ll end up buying a $300 plane, $300 chisel set, $300 saw or two – and you’ll look at the boxes beaming with pride (as we all do!). Then you’ll step back and say, “Uh – now what?” – and you’ll be no closer to building furniture than when you first started (Trust me, been there…). I think you need a better plan….

If you allow me, I’d recommend you change your whole approach – perhaps considerably. Though you didn’t state it, if you are only looking at new quality tools, $1000 isn’t going to go too far. I think you should find a class, online course, or book that has basic projects that utilize very few tools – and buy what you need for that particular skill or project.

I’d suggest you look at Paul Sellers' online hand tool school ($15/month). The first project is quite elementary – it’s a tool carrying tote with housing dados. Off the top of my head, you need a plane, a saw or two, a square, a chisel or two. His second project builds on those skills (and I THINK) the same tools (or very close to it – maybe adds a plow plane) and builds a hanging wall clock. Yes, a hanging wall clock…. how 'bout that!

The important distinction between your post and this approach is the focus on SKILL and not tools. And the reward that comes from actually building a project as you learn. Again, I was (am?) a “Buy a tool first” kinda guy – and many years later, still feel like a hack. Your skills, your muscle memory, your confidence will outgrow your tool collection – and that’s a very good thing.

Another thing to think about is the training and skill that goes into tuning each tool. You’ll hear that you can buy a $400 plane and it’ll “work right out of the box.” While it’s true, it’s also very, very misleading.

Story Time: There was once a man named John…. He’d read that planes could take mill marks off of machined boards. He thought that’d be awesome. So John, who had been woodworking for years (3HP Unisaw, PM jointer, steel top router table, etc), researched and studied and toiled and prayed over buying a hand plane. He read that a company called Lie-Nielsen sold the best hand planes and they worked “right out of the box.” So he bought one – and man, he opened the box and beamed with pride…. He pulled it out, wiggled knobs, twisted levers, etc – and put it to wood. It gouged the wood, was impossible to push, dug in the corners, ripped the grain, tore our chunks…. John cursed the plane and put it back in the box for several years. John, not a bright boy, found out that just buying a top quality hand tool is a very small part of actually using one effectively.

Point being, each tool you buy has a whole learning curve. Learning each tool should be a project in itself. If you buy a plane, you need to figure out how to sharpen, tune, and use it for its various operations. If you are a truly a hand tool neophyte, like our ignorant hero John, this takes some time – and should be planned for. Learning sharpening cannot be skipped…. And should be your primary focus till you get it right.

So, to make a short story longer, here is what I would do:

Subscribe to the Paul Sellers online school - $15
Watch the 2 30 minute videos for the first project. See what tools he uses, and buy them…. For the first project, this is what I came up with:
LV LA Jack - $225 (Regardless of what CS may say, buying a $20 used tool and rehabbing it taught me how to use my fancy $400 LN #4 smoother)
LV Router Plane -$140 (Useful for the first 2 Paul Sellers projects. But he shows you how to do a "poor man's router" with a block of wood and chisel)
2 LV Chisels (not Hirsch) – say $50 (Narex maybe? Dunno - sound good, but I've never touched one)
Starett square - $80 (Quality that you'll used even if you get out of woodworking. Sellers touches it every 3 minutes in these projects)
Marking gauge - $30 (Mark the depth of your housing dados)
Marking knife - $20 (Eh, just about anything will do, but best to have one flat side to register against the ruler, and the other beveled to cut)
Veritas honing guide w/ cambered roller - $90 (Charlesworth uses the cheap "vise type" for $10.)
Set of water stones - $150? (Must have... whole other topic....)
Rip and Crosscut saws – you’re on your own…. (New or used that are tuned to use day 1 aren't cheap. Vintage, you'd have to learn to sharpen your own)
David Charlesworth DVDs (plane\chisel use and sharpening) - $100 (This is the single most important purchase I ever made. Sharp tools are everything)

There goes your $1000 and then some…. For the very basics. Again, vintage planes are great. If you are interested in restoring vintage planes, there is a pretty large learning curve with that too (what to look for, what to avoid, etc). But it will save you money, and I think is a pretty useful skill in understanding planes a bit better overall. Also, with bevel-up planes (like the LV jack above), you have a bit more of an issue trying to get a cambered blade - which I think is pretty important for many operations. Again, a whole 'nother can of worms....

Next, learn your tools. Fool around w. them, sharpen them. Sharpen them again. Cut more wood. Then make Paul Sellers' first project. Next month, buy a LV Plow Plane. Make the clock... Next month, buy the LV dovetail saw - make the dovetail boxes.

In short, don't just buy tools. Worry about skill - not tools. Build something....

And ask lots of questions!

- John (may or may not be the same John in the story)

[William Adams]

Surprised that the Lee Valley small plow plane wasn't suggested,

My suggestion would be to start w/ a small, specific project, get the tools for that (and sharpening gear), build it, repeat.

A small tool tote is a classic first project and would need:

- small (combination) square
- saw
- jack plane --- the source of the phrase, ``jack of all trades'' --- carefully sharpened and tuned it can handle any general planing task
- two-sided oilstone (medium and fine) and 3-in-1 oil
- hammer and nails
- yankee drill, screwdriver bit and some screws and a pair of angle brackets to attach the hardware
- a couple of clamps and a portable / folding workbench (buy more / build a better one later)

(dovetail saw, chisels, rasps, files and brace and bits and the router plane and the small plow mentioned above would be my next choices (and a large frame saw) --- once you can cut a dovetail, grooves, dado, and mortise and tenon joint you can build pretty much anything)

Don't buy a plan --- draw it out yourself. Too many people get stuck on only building from plans.

Towards that, a book I suggest:

- The Joint Book

There're a number of tool lists on the internet --- look through them, read through threads here and post back.

Here's one which I think is quite good:

http://www.geoffswoodwork.co.uk/basic_tool_kit.htm

[Jim Foster]

Several thoughts on getting started. I'm fairly recent at getting back into the hobby, and would call myself tool collector for many years in hindsight even though I thought I was a woodworker.

Sharpening is the first and most critical skill, if you want to use your tools and enjoy the hobby.

It's pretty easy to get into acquisition mode when it comes tools, we all do it to some degree :), but acquiring the basic skills to sharpen and use a plane, saw and chisel are what clears the way to really enjoy making things. To acquire and practice these skills and complete some projects only takes a few tools. Always keep in mind there are tools you NEED and tools you WANT. If you let the need drive you, you'll get your skills where you want them sooner, have more money, more shop space, more time to work, etc...

Some of the blogs that I find to be runways for beginners and re-starts like me are Logan Cabinet Shoppe, and Chris Schwarz.

[Charlie Stanford]

I'm actually a beginner. For years now I have been interested in furniture making, and now I allocated some money to get started. I have crazy noise restriction, so I can only use hand tools. This is fine because its what really interests me anyway.

So what tools should I buy to get started with my $800-1000. I only want excellent quality tools, even if that means just buying a few at first and adding some more every couple paychecks.

From what I gathered I need some good measuring tools and good chisels. I know top quality planes are expensive, so is there any exceptionally versatile one I could buy that would be adequate as my only one? I already have a basic workbench, but no vise. Unfortunately that is all I have, so I need everything you can think of haha.

I look forward to advice from experienced woodworkers. Please be specific, I'm overwhelmed.

Western vs. Eastern, different steels, all the different sharpening gear -- waterstones vs. oilstones vs. lapping films, jigged honing vs. freehand honing, favorite suppliers, etc.

I predict more confusion for you, not less. These sorts of threads have a poor internet history.

[Chris Griggs]

Veritas Low angle jack plane (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515) = $225

Pair of Veritas Carcass Saws = $139 (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=66066&cat=1,42884,68511&ap=1) (+$225 = $364)

A few Chisels (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=67707&cat=1,41504) - maybe 1/4, 3/8, 5/8 (or 1/2 or 3/4), and 1 1/2 = ~$50 (+364 = 414)

A basic sharpening setup (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1461) = $100 (+414=$514)

A decent combo square (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=57065&cat=1,42936)= $80 (+514=$594)

Any tape measure = $10 to $15 (+$594=$609)

An inexpensive marking knife (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=69870&cat=1,42936,42949&ap=1) = $10 ($609=$619)

A basic marking gauge (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=59455&cat=1,42936) = $32 (+$619 = $651)

Find a couple decent 26" saws one cross cut and one rip and pay someone to resharpen them - This price could range a lot but lets for now say that total for saws and rehab will be $100 (+651=$751)

A vise screw (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=41664&cat=1,41659) to make a leg vise = $38 +751= $789

Lets round that up to $800 (sure adds up fast don't it!) and leave you with $200 dollars for some wood.

As you continue to delve in, a block plane will be nice at some point, and I recommend a router plane as your first specialty plane. But once you get even just a few basics out of the way let your projects guide your tool purchases.

Welcome!

Chris

[Zach Dillinger]

The question that needs to be asked is what do you want to build? There's lots of things under the woodworking sun, and recommendations can only be good if we know what you want to do. The tools needed to do carving are different from turning, which are different from box making, which are different from case work, etc.

One way to look at this is to pick a specific project, then buy the things you need to accomplish that project. Buy the best you can afford. If you don't need it for that project, don't buy it yet, as you may never need it. Then, as you do more projects, buy the tooling necessary to accomplish each one in turn, always buying the best you can get. This will give you an excellent base of good quality tools to work with that can be expanded from there.

Don't get too caught up in buying everything you need. I've been doing hand-tool woodworking for a long time now (not as long as some) and I still find things that I need to buy every now and then. Usually, its a "want to buy" situation, but rarely I do actually need something.

My recommendation for an absolute beginner, if you must have one. Get a good quality jack plane that has been tuned up by someone who knows what they are doing, or buy a premium plane for a whole lot more. Buy a good backsaw (again, tuned vintage or premium), a folding rule, a marking gauge (any will be fine) and 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 chisels (much easier to buy new premium, at least in my neck of the woods). Pick a sharpening system (I use oilstones) and buy a course, medium and fine stone in that system. Make yourself a bench hook. Then start making your layout tools. Start by making yourself a wooden square, which if done carefully is all you ever need for woodworking. Then teach yourself to joint long edges by making yourself a straightedge (again, a wooden one is all you ever need). Once you've done these things, you will have a good start at mastering the basic operations. Then, focus on building yourself a decent quality workbench. All of the above projects can be done just about anywhere.

[David Weaver]

. These sorts of threads have a poor internet history.

If one of the methods didn't work, it'd be easier (sharpening, tool types, etc).

I'd spend the money at the outset on a good jointer, and spend $100 total on a good quality vintage fore and smoother plane. Import chisels (like narex, you can't even find good vintage chisels for as cheap, at least not quickly).

Two stones - bester 1200, kitayama 8000, should be about $100, flatten them with wet and dry sandpaper held on a flat square block. Or to save money, you could get just the bester 1200 and use autosol on MDF to polish an edge - it works awfully well and a tube of it and MDF would get you by for a year without fiddling with sandpaper, which is just an awful way to sharpen.

A wheel gauge, a cheap marking knife, and a decent quality vintage combination square.

What do you say charlie, you think that would work? You're the king of cheap.

Still no saws, but that's a can of worms, and will take a little time to find good used ones cheap. The jones can be satisfied initially with one of those 12 tpi impulse hardened carpenters saws from HD, and one of the pull saws that rips and crosscuts. A lot is made of pushing and pulling saws and about how hard it is to do both, but it's not that big of a deal. If you really don't want to pull saws, you can order one of the rip carcass saws from LV (if they have such a thing) and use that for dovetails and crosscuts until you find a proper crosscut saw.

[Jacob Nothstine]

Save as much money as you can for wood, if your in a place that you can't make a lot of noise then you are going to have to buy wood that is already clean and sized to what you need. You can clean up rough wood by hand but it will take time and energy not a lot of fun IMO. Wood that is finished is expensive.

Tools these are the tools I use the most.
Cherry chisels 1/4, 1/2, 3/8,
LV carcass saws and dovetail gauge
LN Block Plane
2 Stanley No#5 one fine work one for removing stock fast.
Panel Saw 8 TPI for breaking down wood.
Sargent #7 I like a big plane for jointing
Make a shooting board, saw horse, and bench hook
Sharping Worksharp save a lot of time

I would not shy away from older tools, If an old plane is in fair shape no rust you can clean and tune it up in about 1 hr save you a lot of money. You just have to be picky when you buy.

[Prashun Patel]

Jared,

Welcome to the Creek!!!

I relate to the feelings you had when you built your bench. I agree that the Internet is a great place to learn. It's how I learned everything (which isn't that much...). If you 'don't know what you don't know', being in front of people can be intimidating.

I am surprised however, that nobody has asked the question: "Why only hand tools?" It's a harder - and not necessarily cheaper - way to go than acquiring power tools. A lot of people start powered and then progress to Neander. I humbly suggest that you consider some corded tools as well.

I agree with Zach's suggestion to start with a project first. Then you can acquire the tools to do that. For me, part of the fun has been figuring out whether I can accomplish each project with the arsenal I have or whether I can justify adding a new tool to it.

If I were a beginner, I think I'd acquire the following "hybrid" set:

Circular saw
Router
cordless drill
jig saw
Random Orbital Sander
Jessem Dowel Jig or Kreg Pocket Screw jig

Jumping right into high end joinery is a hard thing. There's a lot to first learn about flat, straight and smooth first (hope that doesn't come off glib.)

If you have left over $$, the Neander tools I'd start with are:
60 1/2 block from Lie Nielsen.
Good set of bench chisels (I have the Narex from Lee Valley, which are decent value)
Worksharp 2000 with above-table sharpener
Veritas MKII honing guide

I say to start with a power sharpening system. It's the easiest way to get good results. You can progress to stones later if you want.

[Dan Alt]

One way to look at this is to pick a specific project, then buy the things you need to accomplish that project. Buy the best you can afford. If you don't need it for that project, don't buy it yet, as you may never need it. Then, as you do more projects, buy the tooling necessary to accomplish each one in turn, always buying the best you can get. This will give you an excellent base of good quality tools to work with that can be expanded from there.

Don't get too caught up in buying everything you need. I've been doing hand-tool woodworking for a long time now (not as long as some) and I still find things that I need to buy every now and then. Usually, its a "want to buy" situation, but rarely I do actually need something.

Jared - My advice is to read what Zach wrote and then read it again. It's not a new opinion, but it's a good one. When I first started with hand tools a few years ago, I heard someone else make that recommendation, but I had more enthusiasm and disposable income than I had restraint and common sense. I wound up with some really nice tools (and a couple of mediocre ones), but more than I'd like to admit ended up just sitting in cabinets unused. I wound up selling most of the latter without any significant financial loss, but it was still a lesson I could have learned through others.

[Sean Hughto]

I want to start with small pieces like end tables and coffee tables.

Okay, let's start there. We'll make an end table with only hand tools and $800.

Get some wood. Something easy to work like straight grained poplar or soft maple (S2S is fine as far as pre-prepped). Go to a local lumber supplier or order through an online dealer - or even ebay.

1 (eight quarter) chunk 2 to 3 feet long and around 8 to 9 inches wide.

3 (four or five quarter) nice 4 foot long boards in the 8 to 14 inch wide range for the top, apron, stretchers and maybe a small drawer.

Okay, now we have to cut the wood up into the right shapes and sizes. You'e need:
- a decent full saized rip saw (5 or 7 point) and cross cut saw (8 or 10 point) - your best bet is vintage Disstons that can be had at flea markets ($20 or less) or from online vintage tool dealers ($50 to $100 range)

- you'll need them sharp, so buy some files and rig a shop made holding system out of some pine boards and clamps or a bench vise

- BTW, you're going to need a bench vide to hold your work anyway, so buy something like a 9" quick release vise ($100 to $150) and put it on your bench (Jorgenson or the one's TFWW offers are fine)

Okay, now you can saw your wood into the rough shapes and sizes you need for the table.

Now you need to refine those parts - to make them four square, uniform, thicknessed, etc. So you need a plane. Get a Jack (Stanley 5 pre-WWII) from a reputable online vintage tool dealer (like Patrick Leach or several others). Tell the dealer you need a good clean user. It should cost maybe $60. Buy a LN STANLEY replacement blade (i.e., not a LN blade for its own planes which are too thick) for $50. This one plane should be able to do all the jointing, smoothing, and everything you will need in the way of planing for this project.

You're gonna have to be able to sharpen that blade. Buy some Norton combo Waterstones like 1000/4000 etc. up to at least 8000 ($120?) and an Eclipse jig ($30).

You're also gonna need a marking gauge. Get a good wheel marking gauge - like titemark or veritas.

You'll need a decent square (engineers or combo). There are many decent ones from $15 up to hundreds. Suit yourself.

Okay, you have now used the gauge, square and plane to refine and square your rough cut stock.

Time to glue up the top. You'll need your plane to joint the edges to mate. You'll need some glue and some clamps. Decide whether you want to use hide glue or PVA and obtain some. Hide glue is more expensive and may require some tools like a glue pot, for example. Buy a 4 pack or whatever of good parallel clamps like Bessey, Jet, etc. (around $190 - http://www.toolking.com/bessey-krk2440-revo-framing-clamp-kit)

Now you need to work on some mortise and tenons for the apron and stretchers. In addition to what you already have, you'll need:

- a joinery saw or two
- a mortise chisel
- a mallet
- a couple bench chisels
- a marking knife

As far as saws, I would steer a beginner to the Vertas offerings, or if you had the money, the Gramercy carcase saw pair from Tools for Working Wood.

The pigstickers types are the easiest mortise chisels to use in my experience. Get one in the size you like (maybe 3/8ths?) from TFWW.

Any mallet will do, but the Urethane ones from Wood is Good are excellent and affordable.

We could talk all day about chisel choices, but a 3/8th and a 3/4 are like enough for this project. You can sharpen them on the same waterstones as the plane blade.

As for a marking knife, Veritas has some inexpensive ones that look good, or just splurge on a Blue Spruce.

Okay, with those tools and materials you are set to embark on this project. When you complete it, post a picture and let me know your next, and I'll list what you'll need for that one. After four or five projects, you have most of what you need for almost any basic furniture making task.

I'm in the middle of an end table myself. Here's a pic of the progress to date - lots yet to go:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8360247888_d24c5c2dcc_c.jpg

[Steve Friedman]

Jared,

I agree completely with those above who suggest buying only the tools you need for your next project. Initially, stay away from specialty tools and try to buy tools that have are the most versatile. Woodworking is a journey and you can never be sure where it will take you. You may want to build fine furniture now, but may end up making guitars or turning bowls. I think that's the best part of woodworking.

I got involved in woodworking around 6 years ago (at age 52) because I have always been in awe of things made from wood, really wanted to do something physical, wanted to be able to make something with my hands, and have always loved sharp things. Recognizing the fact that I didn't have any artistic talent, I thought I would start by making bowls - they're just simple round things - how hard could that be?

I went online and watched some You Tube videos of people turning bowls on a lathe and it didn't look like fun. Too much equipment, too much mess, didn't like the face shield, etc. I then found Country Workshops and spent a few days with Drew Langsner, who taught me how to make bowls with hand tools. It was the best decision I ever made. It met all my requirements and let me learn how to use hand tools. I bought an axe, adze, some gouges, some spokeshaves, a drawknife, a scrub plane, and a smoothing plane. When I left, I couldn't wait to get home and start using my arsenal of very expensive tools to start making bowls.

But that's not what happened. I first needed to clear out a section of my garage to use as a workshop, build a workbench, and build boxes to store my woodworking tools - all rectangular stuff. So, I needed to go out and buy a bunch of tools needed to make things square and make then fit together. Because of all the repetitive cutting needed, I soon discovered (and bought) a track saw. Since that blew the budget, it also forced me to turn to vintage hand tools to fill in the gaps. Turns out I loved searching for (and using) vintage tools. When I was done, I had developed some new skills and really enjoyed building all those rectangular things.

Over the last 6 years, my woodworking has been all over the place. Besides rebuilding my workbench (twice), I have made bowls, spoons, walking sticks, Adirondack chairs and rockers, end-grain chopping boards, and a bunch of home improvement stuff. My next major project in waiting is a live edge coffee table. The project after that (still in my mind) is a Maloof-style rocker. You just never know.

Enjoy the journey,

Steve

[Jim Foster]

The OP mentioned "noise" as a defining issue.

As an aside, if I was starting again, I would NOT get a router, the tooling cost, noise, dust all gets too expensive and problematic for me. It's also just about the only tool that gives me shivers. (thanks heavens for the slow start feature most have now) To the point where if I planned on continuing the use of a motor powered shaping tool, I'd invest in a serious shaper. Other than the OP' mention of noise and my inclination to forgo the router, I would agree with your suggestions.


Jared,

If I were a beginner, I think I'd acquire the following "hybrid" set:

Circular saw
Router
cordless drill
jig saw
Random Orbital Sander
Jessem Dowel Jig or Kreg Pocket Screw jig

[Jim Foster]

Don't forget clamps... Clamps are pricey, even pipe clamps today, once you add the cost of the clamp and black pipe, I suspect many of the guys here have more invested in clamps than your starting kitty. I would suggest keeping an eye out for used serviceable clamps as you go forward. The saying that "you can never have enough" seems to always come true at the most inconvenient times.

[Charlie Stanford]

If one of the methods didn't work, it'd be easier (sharpening, tool types, etc).

I'd spend the money at the outset on a good jointer, and spend $100 total on a good quality vintage fore and smoother plane. Import chisels (like narex, you can't even find good vintage chisels for as cheap, at least not quickly).

Two stones - bester 1200, kitayama 8000, should be about $100, flatten them with wet and dry sandpaper held on a flat square block. Or to save money, you could get just the bester 1200 and use autosol on MDF to polish an edge - it works awfully well and a tube of it and MDF would get you by for a year without fiddling with sandpaper, which is just an awful way to sharpen.

A wheel gauge, a cheap marking knife, and a decent quality vintage combination square.

What do you say charlie, you think that would work? You're the king of cheap.

Still no saws, but that's a can of worms, and will take a little time to find good used ones cheap. The jones can be satisfied initially with one of those 12 tpi impulse hardened carpenters saws from HD, and one of the pull saws that rips and crosscuts. A lot is made of pushing and pulling saws and about how hard it is to do both, but it's not that big of a deal. If you really don't want to pull saws, you can order one of the rip carcass saws from LV (if they have such a thing) and use that for dovetails and crosscuts until you find a proper crosscut saw.

King of Cheap? Nope. I have a mid-five figure investment in lumber.

[David Weaver]

Interesting, this thread was about tools. I just knew you could find a way to disagree :)

[John Stankus]

Before you go and buy tools, go take a class or two. It will go a long way in helping you decide what works for you and what doesn't. There a many places that have intro classes that there are loaner tools available.

John

[David Weaver]

Contributing $6 and putting a WTB in the classifieds here is not a bad idea once you find out what you want. I can't even remember what the things were that I bought with my first $800, except for two LN planes that took maybe half of it.

But I know now that when I've actually needed something, I've had an easier time here and elsewhere posting what I want and with specifications rather than waiting for someone to list it.

[Sam Stephens]

Get some help -either someone in the area willing to show you a thing or two, local classes, or if neither are available, then a subscription to Paul Sellars online classes or his DVD series Working Wood.

Not to be glib here, but for power tool users, hearing protection is not just an option, but a necessity (e.g. my lunchbox planer runs ~90dB).

[Jim Koepke]

I'm actually a beginner. For years now I have been interested in furniture making, and now I allocated some money to get started. I have crazy noise restriction, so I can only use hand tools. This is fine because its what really interests me anyway.

So what tools should I buy to get started with my $800-1000. I only want excellent quality tools, even if that means just buying a few at first and adding some more every couple paychecks.

From what I gathered I need some good measuring tools and good chisels. I know top quality planes are expensive, so is there any exceptionally versatile one I could buy that would be adequate as my only one? I already have a basic workbench, but no vise. Unfortunately that is all I have, so I need everything you can think of haha.

I look forward to advice from experienced woodworkers. Please be specific, I'm overwhelmed.

Jared,

Welcome to the Creek. My usual comment here is about your location not being in your profile, but you did mention being in the Phoenix area. Most of us will likely forget that information in the next few weeks.

It seems we all love to live vicariously when it comes to spending someone else's money. The best advice so far has been to decide what your first project will be and figure what tools will be needed to finish it.

My first suggestion is clamps if you are going to glue anything.

My second suggestion is to select a sharpening system. Abrasive sheets is good at the beginning but can get expensive. Oil stones are okay, but may seem slow to someone just learning to sharpen. Water stones can be messy and they are easy to gouge.


I just kind of want to get some tools and get started and practice basic techniques? I don't want to dig through ebay for vintage planes to restore. I even read something from Chris Schwartz that advised against it. it was something along the lines of "do you want to spend your time woodworking or repairing tools?". I know that the choice is endless and everyone has different needs as their talents develop. But surely there are some must haves in a woodworkers tool collection that I will always have use for that can get me started. And if I buy these new and high quality, then I won't have to rebuy them later.


One thing to consider on the subject of fixing old tools is that it only needs to be done one time. Only a few of my tools have been purchased new. My 80 - 130 year old Stanley/Bailey plane(s) will leave just as nice a surface on wood as any plane made today. For me fixing them up was not only a source of enjoyment, but is now a source of pride every time they are used. The time spent rehabilitating old tools was less than the time that it would have taken for me to earn the money to buy most of my tools new. Some of the tools are not available new. Enough on that.

There is a great source of information right here in the Sticky: Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs at the top of the Neanderthal Haven conference.

For chisels, one consideration is if you are going to make dados is to have chisels the same size as the wood you will be using. My projects are mostly made from the cheap fir/pine from the big box stores. It is 3/4" so it is only sensible that there are also 3/4" chisels for cutting the dados for shelves and such. Others will mention all kinds of "better" ways to cut dados. Using a marking knife and a chisel to do the job is fast and is a good learning experience.

Saws are another tricky area. Even the best saw you can buy will eventually need to be sharpened. Getting a cheap saw at a yard sale or where ever is a good way to learn about saw filing. Doing this a few times will also let you try different tooth configurations to determine what works best for your needs. If you work different woods than me, what works for me might not work for you.

As far as planes go, some folks love their bevel up planes and some of us love our bevel down planes. In my opinion, some are better at certain tasks than others. For most things my bevel down planes are preferred. A #5 "jack" is a good place to start. It is not the greatest plane for jointing or smoothing, but it is useable for both.

For a marking gauge my choice would be the Tite Mark®. It cost more than the Veritas, but it is worth it. One of each resides in my shop and the Veritas is seldom used.

A good square is also a must have. My preference is for a selection of different sizes. A good combination square would do the job of all of mine. It is just a matter of choice.

When you want to make drawers, a plow plane will be handy to cut the slots for the drawer bottom.

Hopefully all the advice you have received isn't too confusing. Don't be afraid to ask more question is you have them.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

I actually will agree with others that it would be good to get a few vintage bench planes from reputable dealers as opposed to my original suggestion to get a new Low Angle Jack. Not that its not a great first plane to have, but if you really want to work by hand having a jointer and a jack is going to be invaluable for prepping stock. I guess when I make these types of recommendation I tend to assume the the person asking the question has no knowledge of using hand tools let alone fixing them up and wants to get to building something right away. Th reality is, I didn't start out at all in the way I suggested. I slowly accumulated to (and am still accumulating) a pretty basic set of tools over a few years in an order that was dictated by what I perceived as greatest necessity. Where I thought the precision of something new was needed I bought new (my LV specialty planes), where a good vintage tool would do what I want and was readily available I got used. An LA jack is a very versatile plane and about as easy a plane to use as you'll find... I love mine! But if I had to choose between having only my low angle jack only having 3 vintage bench planes the bench planes would win every time. Multiple planes will let you do a lot more a lot quicker, but you need to be willing to learn a little more up front. On the other hand if you just want one really nice plane that will be easy to use out the door and LAJP is the way to go.

[Andrew Gibson]

Im going to offer up a coule suggestions that i have not seen yet.
#1 find the book "made By Hand" by Tom Fidgen. It's a good book and walkes you through a few projects. I enjoyed it. this is in addition to the outer suggestions.
#2 learn about shooting boards! I find it hard to brush my teeth without one :)... you can make one for next to nothing and your end grain will love you for it.
#3 sharpening is beating a dead hoarse at this point, you get it.
#4 find your local woodworking clubs, and check them all out... I think you said something about being young, most of the guys will be retiered and ignore you, be patient and find the one that knows everyone... he will most liekly find you, and he will help you figure out if anyone knows their way around a hand tool... most don't.
#5 if your ever in the Tampa area, give me a shout, your more then welcome to come pick my brains and dull my tools.
#6 Check out Bob's site here and watch all his videos!!!!!! http://www.logancabinetshoppe.com/index.php

[Chris Griggs]

I'm in the middle of an end table myself. Here's a pic of the progress to date - lots yet to go:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8360247888_d24c5c2dcc_c.jpg

I like your table Sean. The turning on the legs is nifty!

[Sean Hughto]

Thanks, Chris. It would cost Jared a bit more for get the lathe and skew, I probably should have mentioned that. ;) I was picturing a shaker sort of table for him. Maybe some tapers or tapering octogons. Then again, he could buy a rasp or carving chisels I suppose and make shapes to suit himself.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks, Chris. It would cost Jared a bit more for get the lathe and skew, I probably should have mentioned that. ;) I was picturing a shaker sort of table for him. Maybe some tapers or tapering octogons. Then again, he could buy a rasp or carving chisels I suppose and make shapes to suit himself.

Indeed! Turning comes later. That's a whole other money pit! I really want to jump into that pit, but haven't had a chance yet. Plenty of stuff to buy and learn that will keep Jared busy in the meantime.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If all the comments in this thread just obfuscate the subject for you, I'll be more than willing to help you spend 800 bucks on tools; let me know and I'll tell you were to send the check.

Oh, you wanted help spending money on tools for you? Sorry.

All the suggestions here are good. I second Andrew's suggestion for Tom Fidgen's book. I also thought Jim Tolpin's last book (the new traditional woodworker, or some along those lines) might also be something nice for someone in your shoes.

I've also seen the videos for the "Exercises in Woodworking", one with Chris Schwarz and one with Bob Lang, although I haven't seen the book. It's been a while, but I remember thinking they'd be good in your situation as well.

Depending on your level of comfort (do you have any experience with woodworking at all?) You may want to tackle a few lower-key projects first. I think one of my first entirely-by-hand projects was building a sawbench. That was a great start to skills building, and can be done with a saw, a knife, a chisel and maybe a plane. "Boarded" furniture can be another low key entry. These types of projects taught better how to handle a saw and a chisel, and a bit of planing, and the style of construction using nails and screws meant mistakes, while ugly, where still solid. Picking back up at the dovetailed and mortise and tenoned things I had left behind ended up being easier after having a few less fancy jobs like this under my belt. It was amazing how much learning to rip and crosscut properly (and this takes paying attention, and learning to get it spot on, paying attention to technique - not just rough-breaking down - especially as you learn, practice accuracy even where it doesn't matter) in large stock aided in my joinery cuts.

On the saw front, as much as I love western-style saws that cut on the push stroke, I've been really impressed with the quality of cut of my cheap Gyokucho pull saws. Much better than what you get at the hardware store here, but for almost the same price. I think being able to use both pull and push saws is a good skill to have, but one or two cheap pullsaws`of this caliber could serve you very well. I could probably get by doing 90 percent of my sawing with one of my pullsaws, even though I don't.

[Jared Walters]

Wow I wasn't expecting such excellent advice. This forum is great. I will consider vintage planes. Someone mentioned getting them at a reputable dealer, are there places which specialize in selling restored tools?


I will also look into the hand tool school. $15 a month isn't bad, it's way cheaper than the classes I found locally.


What vintage planes are your favorites? I suppose finding some on ebay to work on would give me practice in maintenance and sharpening (which I have gathered is critically important).

[Chris Griggs]

Wow I wasn't expecting such excellent advice. This forum is great. I will consider vintage planes. Someone mentioned getting them at a reputable dealer, are there places which specialize in selling restored tools?


I will also look into the hand tool school. $15 a month isn't bad, it's way cheaper than the classes I found locally.


What vintage planes are your favorites? I suppose finding some on ebay to work on would give me practice in maintenance and sharpening (which I have gathered is critically important).

Don't worry to much about brand. I guess my preference would be for Stanley or Miller Falls, but I have a pretty nice Sargent and I think the Union planes are generally regarded as pretty good as well. As far as sizes the most common "standard set" would be a 4, a 5, and a 7. That said 6s can make great jointers and a big ole no. 8 can be a joy as well. Depends on the size of your work.

Don't use ebay until you know what to look for.

Contact one or all three of these people. All of them are reputable and offer fair prices.

http://www.hyperkitten.com/contact.php

http://brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html

http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm



(http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm)

[Jim Foster]

One more reputable dealer in old tools;

http://www.supertool.com/forsale/janlist2013.html

Several #4's available. Leach tends to sell collectable brands I think, so he may be a little on the pricey side, but I think he knows enough and describes things accurately enough so that a buyer should not be surprised when opening a box from him.

[Zach Dillinger]

A final reputable dealer to buy from: Lee Richmond of The Best Things (http://thebestthings.com/).

[Jim Matthews]

+1 on taking a class.

It's the best way to try things on for size.
Every time you grab a tool, make a tick mark to count it's frequency of use.

The things that get the most tick marks should be purchased first.

Do not buy power tools, really large or really small tools at first.
These should be added if, and only if, you cannot find a co-op to use the infrequently needed tools.

I have migrated to a hand tool shop, and don't need much in the way of dust collection other
than a dust pan and a fan in the window.

Jim Tolpin's "The New Traditional Woodworker" is a very reasonable approach to setting up shop.
There are some basic exercises to make some shop implements that get you familiar with the tools and their use.

[Charles McKinley]

The Schwartz actually recommends buying used tools from a reputable dealer. He advises against buying a pig in a poke on ebay for as much or more than you will spend with one of the good dealers listed above.

As I said earlier you have entered one of the best places on the planet for nice and knowledgable people.

On sharpening pick a system and stay with it until you can do it. A lot of it is muscle memory and you will waste money jumping from system to system until you develop that muscle memory.

Again welcome to the Creek and enjoy the experience.

[Joel Goodman]

In the plane department I would get one LN or LV plane -- a block plane (or low angle jack) so you get the feeling of how a proper plane works. Or find a creeker near you who can show you. It's hard to tune up old planes if you haven't go the feel of what you're aiming for.

[Hovey Moore]

I am going to go against the grain and suggest a new Stanley 26" shortcut as your first saw. No they aren't as nice as a vintage Diston, but other than a handle designed for torture, they work decently. A rasp/file/sandpaper fixes the handle and you don't have to learn how to sharpen a vintage saw before you can start your first project. They are induction hardened so you cant sharpen them so keep an eye out for a good user for later. Plus its nice to have a beater saw for things you don't want to use your good saws on later. For a second saw a Japanese style pull saw is the best bang for your buck to start with for joinery work.

Please buy a LN or LV plane just so you understand what a plane should work like. A LV apron plane is a great block plane for not a lot of money but you cant go wrong with any of their bench or block planes. Knowing what a plane should be like will save you a lot of frustration later.

EDIT: Avoid eBay!!!!!

[Jim Koepke]

Please buy a LN or LV plane just so you understand what a plane should work like. A LV apron plane is a great block plane for not a lot of money but you cant go wrong with any of their bench or block planes. Knowing what a plane should be like will save you a lot of frustration later.

EDIT: Avoid eBay!!!!!

You can go to a tool event, maybe a local woodworking supply store or woodworking show to see how a plane should work and feel. Another would be to connect with someone in your area. A few people have come to my shop to learn a bit about using planes and help setting up their planes. The great thing about that is they weren't the only ones to learn something during their visits.

Almost all of my planes came from ebay. Things have changed, but there are still some bargains to be had. One just has to know what they are looking at and how much they should be willing to pay. There are low lifes trying to push junk, learn to not fall for the junk.

Some of my best deals on ebay came when my goal was to purchase parts planes. Some of them are not my better users.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

I'm actually a beginner. For years now I have been interested in furniture making, and now I allocated some money to get started. I have crazy noise restriction, so I can only use hand tools. This is fine because its what really interests me anyway.

So what tools should I buy to get started with my $800-1000. I only want excellent quality tools, even if that means just buying a few at first and adding some more every couple paychecks.

From what I gathered I need some good measuring tools and good chisels. I know top quality planes are expensive, so is there any exceptionally versatile one I could buy that would be adequate as my only one? I already have a basic workbench, but no vise. Unfortunately that is all I have, so I need everything you can think of haha.

I look forward to advice from experienced woodworkers. Please be specific, I'm overwhelmed.

Hi Jared

I think that I will weigh in on this. You may not like my recommendation, however.

$800 is a lot more than I spent on handtools when starting out. However, over the course of the years I have spent a lot more than that! Frankly, you could go out and spend the lot and get a decent set of tools for the money, but most of us did not start out that way, and I believe it would not be in your best interests anyway. Instead, we began with one or two tools and added to them as we developed a need. This gave us the chance to learn to improvise, to understand what a tool was intended for and what it was capable of.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

I'd say that for many of us the project came first, and then came the tools. Go and find a project that you find interesting. Keep it simple to start. A bench is good - use lap joints instead of mortice-and-tenons (that's what I did). Watch a few videos on building a bench (I wish I could have). Watch other videos on building with hand tools. Chris Schwarz has a good selection, as has Paul Sellers.

Buy a few tools - get a Stanley #5 and a couple of blades. Set up a sharpening area and practice getting your blades razor sharp. Buy 2 or 3 Narex chisels (1/4", 1/2", 3/4"). Then vintage 12" rip and 12" crosscut backsaws that are freshly sharpened. You can do a lot with these, and learn to appreciate the more expensive backsaws you will purchase later on. Look on eBay for a 12" Starrett combination square. This lot may set you back about $150 - $200. That is enough on tools when starting out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bobby O'Neal]

Hi Jared

I think that I will weigh in on this. You may not like my recommendation, however.

$800 is a lot more than I spent on handtools when starting out. However, over the course of the years I have spent a lot more than that! Frankly, you could go out and spend the lot and get a decent set of tools for the money, but most of us did not start out that way, and I believe it would not be in your best interests anyway. Instead, we began with one or two tools and added to them as we developed a need. This gave us the chance to learn to improvise, to understand what a tool was intended for and what it was capable of.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

I'd say that for many of us the project came first, and then came the tools. Go and find a project that you find interesting. Keep it simple to start. A bench is good - use lap joints instead of mortice-and-tenons (that's what I did). Watch a few videos on building a bench (I wish I could have). Watch other videos on building with hand tools. Chris Schwarz has a good selection, as has Paul Sellers.

Buy a few tools - get a Stanley #5 and a couple of blades. Set up a sharpening area and practice getting your blades razor sharp. Buy 2 or 3 Narex chisels (1/4", 1/2", 3/4"). Then vintage 12" rip and 12" crosscut backsaws that are freshly sharpened. You can do a lot with these, and learn to appreciate the more expensive backsaws you will purchase later on. Look on eBay for a 12" Starrett combination square. This lot may set you back about $150 - $200. That is enough on tools when starting out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

+1. Agreed.

[Matthew Hills]

I live in Phoenix. I want to start with ...

Not sure how young you are; I'd be highly surprised if any woodworking club in your area wouldn't be thrilled to have young blood.

Look for other woodworkers in the area who might be open to showing you their hand tools or who have a shop full of power tools that can help with stock prep, leaving you to enjoy the joinery part at home. (even when paying a premium for S4S boards from local sources, I still had trouble finding boards that hadn't warped)

Can you share a photo of the workbench you have now?

Also, you might enjoy reading Paul Sellers' blog. He tends to advocate a few-frills, handtool-centric approach.

Some quick thoughts:
- combination waterstone (e.g., 1k/6k) is a good starting point
- modest-quality chisels are probably fine (usually less refined look and worse edge retention, but not inherently limiting at this point)
- japanese saws are fairly cheap, cut very well, and you can postpone the entire saw-sharpening rabbit-hole for a little while
- make your own mallet -- good practice
- vintage plane if you have a known good source or a local handtool guy who can help with setting it up; otherwise premium planes can help remove some uncertainty, but much more expensive.



Matt

[Hovey Moore]

I say avoid eBay until you know what to look for. But starting out you don't know what to look for and so are far more likely to get had then to find a good deal. Later once one has the experience to know the difference between a good tool and a bad one eBay does have its gems but a newbie is most likely going to waste money learning the hard way or give up because their tools don't work right and they don't have the skills/time/inclination get them working properly.

I said buy a LN/LV plane but should have added a good well turned user as another option. This is useful as a reference when trying to get other tools to work properly. Yes with time and experience or a good teacher this isn't needed. You should also notice I suggested a small block plane to keep costs down.

[Jim Koepke]

I say avoid eBay until you know what to look for. But starting out you don't know what to look for and so are far more likely to get had then to find a good deal. Later once one has the experience to know the difference between a good tool and a bad one eBay does have its gems but a newbie is most likely going to waste money learning the hard way or give up because their tools don't work right and they don't have the skills/time/inclination get them working properly.

I said buy a LN/LV plane but should have added a good well turned user as another option. This is useful as a reference when trying to get other tools to work properly. Yes with time and experience or a good teacher this isn't needed. You should also notice I suggested a small block plane to keep costs down.

If this was my approach, most likely my time wouldn't be spent woodworking right now. My income at the time didn't allow the purchase high end tools.

One of my posts in the Sticky: Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs addresses what to look for when buying on ebay. It can not cover everything some charlatan might try to pull, but that is why one needs to ask questions and pay attention to feedback and what the dealer is selling.

This will help with a lot of "what to look for when buying planes."

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?116419-Planes-and-a-Few-Things-to-Look-For

Here is one on getting started with hand planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148076-Getting-Started-With-Hand-Planes

As said earlier, if my process started by purchasing high end planes, even a block plane, my woodworking enjoyment would have been thwarted. Yes, the OP did say they had $800-1000 to spend. That is not a reason to spend that much. Spend some of the savings on a guilty pleasure for the significant other and it will be easier to spend more on tools in the future.

My method may be backward, but my high end plane purchases have been limited to tools not available at a decent price on the secondary market and only after learning how to work with the old second hand planes.

Sure there were some struggles and disappointments, but the lessons learned by going along this path have been invaluable.

If Jared has a good income and can support all new tools in his shop, then it may be the best path for him. If he is like me and spent a lot of time eating weenies and beans to save up his money, he may want to consider second hand tools.

He did state:


So what tools should I buy to get started with my $800-1000. I only want excellent quality tools, even if that means just buying a few at first and adding some more every couple paychecks.

An old Stanley #4 and #5 from a reliable dealer would be a good choice. Otherwise both from either LV or LN would be great choices.

jtk

[Paul McGaha]

Jared,

If I was just getting started in hand tools and had $1,000 to spend I think I would buy:

1) Stu's 3 piece stone set. About $300
2) Lee Valley's Stone Pond with an additional glass plate About $ 80
3) Some of the adhesive backed sandpaper from LN in grits 80, 180, 400. About $180
4) An Eclipse honing guide. About $ 12
5) 7 piece set of Narex chisels from Lee Valley. About $ 69
6) Try to find you a creeker that will be willing to sell you some of his
planes like Sean Hughto did for me. (Thanks again Sean) Stanley Bailey #3, 4, 5, 7 About $150
7) New Hock plane irons and chip breakers for Stanley Bailey #3, 4, 5, 7 About $223

So far, if my math is right I've spent $1,004. Haven't addressed any saws, block planes, work bench, clamps, specialty planes, many other things.

But we do have some pretty decent sharpening items, set of Narex bevel edge chisels, Vintage Stanley Baileys in 3, 4, 5, 7. It's a start.

Good luck with it.

PHM

[David Weaver]

Exchange rates are pretty favorable now, anything that comes from japan is about 15% cheaper than it was a couple of months ago. They're experimenting with stimulus programs or something and attempting to inflate their currency (which makes it weaker relative to ours).

[Sam Takeuchi]

Jared,

1) Stu's 3 piece stone set. About $300
2) Lee Valley's Stone Pond with an additional glass plate About $ 80
3) Some of the adhesive backed sandpaper from LN in grits 80, 180, 400. About $180



I think $560 for sharpening and flattening equipments are farrrrrrrrrr excessive at this point. They are nice to have and I'm all for having good basic set of sharpening equipment (even then, there are cheaper and 'decent' choices available even if they are not considered the best). The fact is, when you want to buy everything, $1000 doesn't go far. I don't think it's wise to find stuff to top off the budget, rather the idea should be to stretch the budget so that they have good set of tools they can use to make basic stuff at least. No saw, no clamp, no woodworking.

From your list of thing, I wouldn't hesitate to knock stone pond, abrasive paper set, 7 piece Narex chisel set (4 will do in the beginning), No. 3 or No. 4 (one smoother will do at first), and Hock blade (unless stock is very soft like some of them are, it's unnecessary) off the list. They are definitely more necessary things than those. Sharp and durable plane blades and set of chisels are no substitute for saws, clamps, finishing equipment (which eventually will be necessary), so on and on. What cost the most is these small things that aren't expensive, but you need a lot of. Clamps definitely fall into one of those. Even if you spend a lot on clamps of various sizes, there will be a time when you think to yourself "damn, I don't have enough clamps!".

I think other than a few basic set (sharpening stones/equipments, a couple of planes, a saw, few clamps, stainless rule, square), save the rest as 'purchase as needed' budget. Suggesting all those optional items to blow $1000 while skipping the most basic necessary tools seem a bit silly. He wouldn't be able to do even the most basic woodworking projects even with those fleet of planes and chisels.

[David Weaver]

I can't see that the stones are awful in a budget. It's HARD to find cheap stones now unless you're willing to use india stones, and while india stones are a great bargain, you still have to have something to keep them flat if you're a beginner.

If the "stu set" goes for about $255 plus shipping, that's essentially equivalent to buying an atoma and getting three stones for $155-$160.

The flattening stuff can wait, though, norton 3x and a can of spray stick-em in lieu of expensive rolls is extremely capable for anything where a 1000 stone can't do the work (which shouldn't be many things). A common belt sander or just about anything can fill the role of grinding very well.

What's disturbing for beginners is the disconnect between what you can get with vintage planes if you know what to look for and what you will sometimes get if you don't. I still like the idea of all vintage planes better for someone on a tight budget, my favorite planes are probably my cheapest - getting a jointer, jack and a smoother for $100 is like getting something for nothing. I'd rather spend an extra $100 or a little more on stones to get premium stones than spend many hundreds more on premium chisels and planes.

[Paul McGaha]

With the list I made, I don't know, I tried to go ahead and cover the sharpening. I guess the sandpaper could be reduced to something cheaper but I don't think I'd remove any of the other sharpening items.

There is a lot of savings in the used planes. Maybe you could do without the Hock replacement irons, They are really nice to have though.

The Narex chisels are pretty affordable.

Notice there are no high end tools on the list.

I just don't think $1,000 is going to go that far. Unless you could get really lucky and buy everything used and deeply discounted.

[Sam Takeuchi]

I don't know if I'd suggest premium stones for someone just starting out. Learning to sharpen and flatten blades, plus likelihood of excessive flattening as learning to use stones, I don't think he (the beginning woodworker) gets what he paid for after quite a bit of stone literally down in the drain. If anything, I'd suggest something like Norton combo stones. I know they are not the best performers out there, but these were good enough for large woodworking population for some time before, it should do fine. Something like #1000 and #4000/#8000 should cost less than half the price of the premium stones. I think these should be good training wheel stones until he becomes comfortable with sharpening and becomes performance conscious.

As for planes, I'd say go with vintage planes, too, but from reputable tool dealers. If going with premium planes, there is hardly any money left after a couple of planes if his budget is $800 to $1000. I think he could manage to buy 3 planes (smoother, jack, jointer if desired) from tool dealer(s) and Norton combo for well below $500. But depending on what he plans to make, maybe he wouldn't even need a jointer. That's where "as needed" budget comes in. It's not often when someone gets great deal, paying only $100 or $150 for a set of planes, so that has to be accounted for.

$1000 isn't a lot, but it's plenty to have a set of basic tools, including saws, clamps, measuring tools etc. And as for Narex chisel set, they are affordable, yes, but realistically, do you use all these sizes? I struggle to use all of standard sizes in a set of 4 (I have my favorite sizes, like everyone else does), unless for a specific applications, I can't really imagine anyone needing a set of 7, unless grabbing next closest size when one gets dull is a reason to get a big set, but that's hardly a necessity. When a set of 4 can be had for about $30 give or take, I think that's more practical. Difference of $20, you can buy a humble, yet extremely useful tool such as dividers.

Like I said, he needs to build from ground up, he 'needs' basic tools in order to do something. I'm not disagreeing with you in emphasizing the importance of sharpening and equipments, but it has to be done to fit the overall scheme of things. If purchase of optional items prevents one from cutting, measuring, clamping and all that, that's something akin to buying a car with all the options with no gas in the tank and no more money for gas to drive out of the dealership until next pay check. That won't do unless he is ok sitting on all the tools for a month until next paycheck that is. Then that's an another story.

[Hovey Moore]

If this was my approach, most likely my time wouldn't be spent woodworking right now. My income at the time didn't allow the purchase high end tools.

When did I say buy all premium planes? I said buy ONE. Just one. A block, 4, 5, & 7 from LV/LN would basically kill his entire budget. Leaving no funds for the host of other needed tools to get started let alone sharpen what he just bought. He did state he wanted only excellent quality tools even if that meant waiting a bit but that is still too much waiting for most people.

Unless one is going for a LAJ, I wouldn't go for a new 5 as they normally used as course planes and an old Stanley works almost as well even in less than ideal condition. Buy the rest of the planes from a reputable tool dealer and save a ton of cash over new.

[David Weaver]

In coarse work, they work better, actually. They're lighter. If I were only allowed to have one premium plane ever, it would be a premium jointer. Shame that's the most expensive of them, but aside from an LAJ that I kept as a shooter (which almost never gets used), the only premium plane I kept was a LN jointer. It's fantastic, though I'd kind of like to dump it, too, but if you take a thin shaving jointing an edge, take a couple of stop shavings and then a through shaving, the edge is FLAT and it's academic to use a straight edge to check anything but the very ends of a board.

[Jim Koepke]

When did I say buy all premium planes? I said buy ONE.

At the time, my budget didn't even have room for one. The prices for LN and LV were lower then, but so was my discretionary income. Other than what might be considered a "collector" plane, my most expensive bench plane is a #8, type 6a, at $50. There isn't a plane in my shop that can't join or smooth a surface as well as a new premium plane.

There is nothing wrong with premium planes. They may be built better than my old planes with better machining and higher labor costs, but when the blade hits the wood, the wood doesn't know any difference. If one has the financial resources to go that way they can be a good investment. If one has a little time and elbow grease, old tools can also be a good and even profitable investment. Some of my used tool purchases have been rehabilitated, used and later sold. Most of the time for a nice profit, allowing me to buy some premium tools not available on the used market.

My first try square was from the local hardware store. So were my first chisels, Sandvick at the time were a little less than $10 each. Mine were bought one at a time. Pipe clamps were the cheapest solution for my needs allowing easy conversion to various sizes by buying long pieces of pipe and cutting them down. The first new "premium" plane in my shop was a modern Stanley 060 block plane from the same hardware store my chisels and square were purchased. All of them are still used in my shop.

If one doesn't pay ridiculous prices for used tools, they can often be sold at a profit or at least break even prices.

So, getting back to the original question of what someone starting out in woodworking needs...

Tools for marking and layout:

A combination square and other layout tools might top the list.

My first marking knife was made from a broken piece of a kitchen knife. Many people like Xacto knives for this. A pencil can do the job.

Most of my dividers come from old drafting sets. Often available at low prices since very little manual drafting is done these days.

Marking gauges are inexpensive if you purchase a Stanley pin gauge. Woodcraft has what is likely a made in China wheel gauge for $16. Over time it is handy to have more than one. My favorite and most used is the Tite Mark at about $90.

Clamps are very important for woodworking. There are ways to get around without them, but then you need some rope and know how or some other method to hold things together while the glue dries.

If one has edge tools one also needs a way to keep them sharp. Someone else suggested Norton 1000 and a 4000/8000 combo set. That can be easily put together. Lie-Nielsen has the set listed at $110. That is a good starting set. Yes there are much better, but someone learning to sharpen is likely to put a few gouges in their stones and better to learn the basics and have the "accidents" with an inexpensive set rather than a $300 set. By the time they need replacement the beginner will have improved enough to make the bigger investment more practical. BTW, my stone collection keeps getting bigger as none have been sold, but if something shows up at a yard sale or flea market my money is out of my pocket if the price is right. My situation is different than most since even my garden tools get hit by the stones. Also my shop isn't heated. When my stone pond becomes a skating rink my oil stones get the work.

Most of my work could be done with four chisels, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 & 1". Though it is nice to have a lot of other sizes, styles and even duplicates.

There are many types of people in this craft. Just like the discussion of whether a bench should have a tool tray or not there are other choices that are personal to each of us.

Some like to have matched sets of tools. Some of us do not care as long as it allows us to get the work done.

Only a few of my bench planes are not Stanley/Bailey style planes. Mine are all different from type 4 to type 17. Some people only want all their planes to be type 11 others want type 12. Some folks only want square top Bedrocks. Then there are others who only want to use infills or wooden body planes. Then there are those who do not care and will have just about every maker ever known represented in their fleet of planes.

The wood will never know the difference.

Finally:


He did state he wanted only excellent quality tools even if that meant waiting...

Only a few of my old Stanley/Bailey planes could be considered to be not "excellent quality tools." That is mostly due to them having been damaged by previous owners. There are a few that have cracks or other problems, but they are still fine users.

If Jared had said he wanted only "NEW" tools, we would have a different story.

One of my thoughts was to offer to send him a couple of good user junkers to see how well an old piece of crud can perform. There has been a scraper plane floating around for those who want to give it a try. My junker #4 has a crack and a $3 blade. It still does a great job. Maybe that old plane should be sent around in a similar fashion. The biggest obstacle is the shipping is likely more than the plane is really worth.

Here is the story on the plane and the blade:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?181726

It was made up of odd parts laying around the shop.

jtk

[Bob Jones]

You have gotten lots of good tips here and some real specific things. I will add a few general guidelines rather than exact tools for fun.

1- buy the book "Handtools for woodwork" by Charles hayward on amazon for $5 (do this first)
2-buy vintage planes and use the vintage blades. the vintage blades will work fine and are much easier to grind and sharpen. The key - Buy them from members of this forum (or others). Post a WTB and get planes that are already tuned! This will be your cheapest and easiest option.
3 - buy no more than 3 bench chisels (2 would do ya) 1/4, 3/4, and 1/2 (optional) the AI chisels at TFWW are an excellent value
4 - buy 1 mortise chisel (1/4 or 5/16)
5 - plan to make all of your wooden tools (mallets, straightedges, panel gauge, bench hook)
6 - buy vintage saws from members of this forum. Buy them sharp and learn to sharpen them.
7 - do not buy a honing guide. learn to sharpen freehand because it is cheap. I use guides, but for centuries they were not an option.
8 - use joinery that does not require clamps - they are expensive. Dovetails, pegged mortice and tendon - also, rope with a twist handle is a reasonable clamp
9 - the $25 stanley handsaws work surprisingly well...

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

8 - use joinery that does not require clamps - they are expensive. Dovetails, pegged mortice and tendon - also, rope with a twist handle is a reasonable clamp



Plus one on that. There are lots of other ways to get around clamping things. I think I built my first electric guitar without many clamps - gluing up the two halves for the body would have required wider clamps than I had. I screwed down cleats and used opposing wedges. Rope and opposing wedges works with other stuff.

Drawbored mortise and tenon joints are great, if for no other reason than I can put together a frame and panel and then set it aside without clamps being all over the place.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Plus one on that. There are lots of other ways to get around clamping things. I think I built my first electric guitar without many clamps - gluing up the two halves for the body would have required wider clamps than I had. I screwed down cleats and used opposing wedges. Rope and opposing wedges works with other stuff.

Drawbored mortise and tenon joints are great, if for no other reason than I can put together a frame and panel and then set it aside without clamps being all over the place.

Center bookmatched solid body pieces can be glued together using hide glue and rubbed joint, you don't even need twine and wedge. But electric guitar isn't really a good example of not using clamps, though. There are very few things to clamp to begin with unless you are into laminated x pieces neck. Even fingerboard can be glued using twine and torque, but other than that, at least I don't see much else that requires clamps for the bolt on construction guitar. On the other hand, I would hate to be without clamps when putting together set-in neck. I'm sure it can be done without so-called clamps, but I don't see why anyone would want to do it without. There is enough minute adjustments to be made as pieces are setting without need to fuss about with clamping business.

Do you guys really go without clamps? I'm not a furniture maker, so I might be missing something obvious, but do you guys really drawbore and dovetail everything that you guys don't use clamps? Surely, small number of C-clamps or F-clamps would be at least come in most useful out of all thing at times? If anything, a few Quick Grip surely make things easier when pieces have to be temporarily secured. Or for making jigs for something.

What you can do without clamps and what realistically make sense using is totally different thing. I don't know about you, but at least beginning his woodworking experience without clamps and having to devise clamping technique for every step of the way when he can barely sharpen his tools appears to be unnecessary hassle to me at this point. Is it realistic? I don't know what he plans to make, but he might just want to make small things like bookstand or something, I don't know. Either way, I'm fairly certain he will be thinking about lack of clamp in his endeavor at some point, I'm sure most of you have at one point or another.

[Bobby O'Neal]

There are a few things to consider. When you say you want to buy high-quality stuff we have to define that. If it means LN or LV, you'll likely just buy a few chisels, a plane, a combo square, a knife and a saw or two and practice cutting joints and planing until you need some more cash to recreate an edge. And to be clear, I think this route would be highly beneficial in a lot of ways.

If the quality you're after is based on results alone then you have a lot of options. There will be give and take down this road, though. Old tools require some education. Cheaper stuff like Woodriver or other "store Brand" type things may not have the off the shelf consistency you'd like. That said, I have chisels and a #5 Woodriver that are very decent. Not great, but decent.

Whatever you build first, get the tools you'll need.

Get lumber.
Measure it.
Demension it.
Cut joints.
Glue and clamp?
Finish it.
Apply a finish.

All the best, you'll have a blast.

[David Keller NC]

I just kind of want to get some tools and get started and practice basic techniques? I don't want to dig through ebay for vintage planes to restore. I even read something from Chris Schwartz that advised against it. it was something along the lines of "do you want to spend your time woodworking or repairing tools?". I know that the choice is endless and everyone has different needs as their talents develop. But surely there are some must haves in a woodworkers tool collection that I will always have use for that can get me started. And if I buy these new and high quality, then I won't have to rebuy them later.

Let me just say that this is not some hobby I will try and get bored of.

Jared - After writing many thousands of posts on the net wood forums and reading tens of thousands, I'd say that your wisdom is in the top 0.001% of the beginner's I've helped.

You are 100% dead-on with "And if I buy these new and high quality, then I won't have to rebuy them later.", and almost 100% of beginners make this exact choice when starting out because they have sticker shock over what a complete hand tool shop can cost. And almost every one of them wind up selling their "budget" tools and replacing them after a while.

What is often missed when making these choices is that if properly purchased, a high-quality dovetail saw is a lifetime purchase - you will never use it up. The same is true with planes, chisels, marking tools, etc... Looked at this way, a $300 handplane doesn't cost so much.

So as been alluded to by a few posters on this thread, the way to limit your expenditures at first is to limit the number of tools that you purchase, and you do that by picking a project that you can handle and only buy what tools you need to complete the project and only when you need them.

And here is the part of this post (and thread) that will benefit you the most: The handtool that has not been mentioned but is required to do any hand tool work is a proper workbench. Unlike power tool woodworking where you can get by with the kitchen table (and I did when I was starting out!), a workbench is a must for handtool woodworking.

And the best thing to do is to build your own, because in doing so you will be purchasing the hand tools that you need when you need them.

So here is the only money you should spend in the next couple of weeks (or 2 days if you're a fast reader): The Workbench: From Theory and Design to Construction and Use by Chris Schwarz and The Anarchist's Toolchest by Chris Schwarz. The first book will give you all the information you need to build a workbench that will take you through at least the next 10 years of hand-tool woodworking. The second book (despite the title) is about a set of tools, not so much a toolchest. In it, Chris sets out a very minimalist set of handtools that can be acquired in stages. And while any of us might prefer a slightly different design/brand than what he selects, there is zero question that what he recommends won't be dust-gatherers.

Don't spend any money on any tools until you buy or borrow these 2 books and read them. If you buy them and you decide you don't need them, you can pretty much instantly sell them on this forum for 90% of the money that you paid for them.

[Jim Koepke]

David has provided a very good answer.

The question of what tools a person should purchase to get started in hand tool woodworking is often best answered by the question of what will the one asking be wanting to make, then to buy the tools needed to make that.

That is a very reasonable approach.

If you do not already have a good bench, making one is a good first project. Making a bench without a bench is difficult but can be done.

The only draw back to the reasonable approach, which David suggests for the minimalist, is it isn't one that works for everyone.

Just like cutting dados with a router plane works for some, chisels work for others while some will use a dado plane, some with a saw in combination with chisels or router planes and still others insist on an electric router. There is nothing wrong with any of these ways. Some other ways may have been missed.

My shop is definitely not set up with the minimalist approach in mind. If a tool bargain comes my way it is almost impossible for me to resist. Often my intention is to possibly sell it for a profit if needed. For me it is the First National Bank of Tools and has served well.

This really comes down to your personal choice. If you want the very best and will not like working with something that has rust spots, cracked wood or chipped paint, then Lie-Nielsen or Veritas (Lee Valley) may be the best choice for your personal satisfaction.

Every time one of my rehabilitated tools is picked up, there is a sense of pride while using it. Surely the owners of modern tools supplied by the afore mentioned dealers or other purveyors of fine tools have a similar pride about their tools.

So Jared, only you know which will give you such a satisfaction of ownership and never make you feel like, "I should have bought... "

There are so many right ways for you to go on setting up your shop, just make sure it is your own right way and not someone elses.

jtk

[David Keller NC]

Jim - Full disclosure: I am definitely not a minimalist when it comes to tools. ;)

"Tool Collector" that puts almost all of his collection to use in the shop once in a while might be a more accurate description.

In fact, I personally think that characterizing minimalist attitudes to furniture (e.g., often called "clean design" as a euphemism for "plain"), tools, house, car or anything else as somehow more noble than those that prefer fancier things is incorrect and harmful. Either perspective is just as worthwhile as the other, they're just preferences.

So you're off the hook. :D

But - there's no question in my mind that Chris' approach in The Anarchist's Toolchest is really useful for the beginner with sticker shock. Even then, some of the tools on Chris' list aren't useful for the woodworker that concentrates on specialties (box maker, for example).

[Jim Koepke]

Jim - Full disclosure: I am definitely not a minimalist when it comes to tools. ;)

"Tool Collector" that puts almost all of his collection to use in the shop once in a while might be a more accurate description.

In fact, I personally think that characterizing minimalist attitudes to furniture (e.g., often called "clean design" as a euphemism for "plain"), tools, house, car or anything else as somehow more noble than those that prefer fancier things is incorrect and harmful. Either perspective is just as worthwhile as the other, they're just preferences.

So you're off the hook. :D

But - there's no question in my mind that Chris' approach in The Anarchist's Toolchest is really useful for the beginner with sticker shock. Even then, some of the tools on Chris' list aren't useful for the woodworker that concentrates on specialties (box maker, for example).

Thanks David. My comment was more on the minimalist approach to setting up shop you provided than commenting on it being your way of doing things. Minimalism is a valid approach, but the result isn't necessarily superior to any other method. The superiority of any approach has to be determined by the person doing it. Just because my choice works for me does not mean it will work for others.

The advantage of the minimalist shop is it is easier to keep all the tools in their place and it is easier to keep it neat.

My case is not quite a maximulist system, but often when scavenging through stuff things are found that were forgotten. This is mostly stuff that was bought in a lot of tools that contained one or more tools on my "want list." For me it is even difficult to toss broken tools. A few of them have actually paid off when another purpose has presented itself. One being a broken plane sole being used to hold totes or knobs when gluing or refinishing. Another is turning a short or messed up plane blade into a marking knife. Even old dead looking tools may have a bit of new life left in them.

Then there is the idea that they can someday be put back to work or as is sometimes the case, another person will need a part from one of my pieces of junk. Then there is also the First National Bank of Tools when a tool not in my shop catches my eye. A bit of sorting through the junk and duplicates put the listings on ebay or other places and voila there is the funds to buy the new shiny.

jtk

[Greg Portland]

a workbench is a must for handtool woodworking.To jump in, you don't need to spend a ton of money to build a solid bench. I made mine from 4 torsion boxes (top, legs, and stretcher) and made the vises using some old vise screws. Dog holes were made by laminating 1x6 pieces between two 2x6s. Total cost was under $200. I'm just saying that you shouldn't feel the need to build a giant solid maple bench right out of the gate. Use the cheap bench for awhile until your skills get to the point where you can build something nice. Also, your methods of work will mature to the point where you'll know what you want in a bench (size, shape, vise types, etc., etc.).