CLTT..need some input

[Rodne Gold]

I want to get into CLTT , Magic touch here in SA has the printers , paper and heatpress etc.. good system will cost me round $3000
Oki TMT 610 enhanced
HTP 234 heat press
200 sheets A4 CPM6.4 transfer paper.
Accessories like pads etc all in
I could probably go cheaper on the net or use alternative products , but would prefer the local support
I have lots of applications , but my main concern is the density of the print on solid substrates like anodised aluminium etc.
I'm struggling to find pictures on the net.
I do realise that without white you wont get the vibrant colours on dark substrates.
I am assuming one can print on anything if it survives the heat pressing?
I have seen videos on the magic touch site where they use this paper on acrylic awards, but the print looked a little insipid?
I have looked at the cltt threads here...Any other advice for me..

[Mike Null]

Rodney

As a long time user of MagicTouch paper they are the only game in town for hard substrate transfer paper. It has its limitations. I don't feel it works well on wood though some others seem to have had some success. It doesn't have the density/opacity for acrylic. Where I like and use the product is for multi-colored name tags and for brushed silver and gold plaque metals.

There is a fabric paper (TTC) and a paper which can be bonded to the back of acrylic (ORD) to produce quite a good look.

When I got into CLTT I bought the MagicTouch package which meant that I way overpaid for the printer but it has the MT drivers which are helpful when selecting print properties. My Panasonic printer is now over 10 years old and still going strong--it's an oil fuser model and I had to replace two fusers--one my fault, the other from wear.

[Martin Boekers]

Rodne,

Mike is the expert here on Magic Touch!

A couple things to add.... Obviously the better qualty printer the better the product. Are you looking tabloid size?

It will scratch so you may want to put a protective coat on it depending upon uses.

It is heat and solvent sensitive, good/bad the good is if you screw up a piece a bit of acetone will remove the toner
and you can try again. You want to make sure pieces aren't in direct sunlight or by a direct heat source.

I did tons of tiles with this, but went back to dye sub because I had an issue with tiles. The local suppliers
quit making the ones I wanted so I started doing dye sub.

Dye sub and Magic Touch each have their place. I would explore the various options with Magic Touch.
For metal transfers the text is BLACK! (I believe Mike has a toner cartridge that he can change in and out
with his laser printer, makes it cheap and easy) The toner actually "stands off" the metal giving it a raised effect.

I look forward to see how you will use this!

[Rodne Gold]

Thanks guys , I'm gonna pull the trigger tomorrow , I have spoken to another engraver/trophy shop 1600km from me (so he was free with info , we aren't competitors) that uses it directly onto Rowmark type engraving material + all manner of uncoated metals as well as cast acrylic.
It will be an added service , I intend to use it on my Sino ersatz Rowmark for badges (as opposed to putting a printed sticker on) and dome it , want to try use it as an etch mask for brass and stainless steel and aluminium , want to do easy full colour plaques on anodised aluminium sheet and wood , print data plates and do general tags and labels on aluminium , formica and whatever I can get my hands on. Some of my customers don't want the sticker look.
I will make registration jigs and print direct and then die cut using either my lasers or my CnC machines .. I'm pretty sure I will find some other applications if I think out the box.
Longevity and scratch resistance is probably not too much of an issue for me , most likely the main application will be small stuff which I will dome..but will have a look at what I can coat with for more durability and uv resistance.
Sublimation is not an option for me , I don't want to be held hostage to sublimatible inks or products.
I investigated water transfer printing (too much hassle) and UV printing (A3 machine is $35k...way too much)
A4 printer will be fine for me as a start , if it takes off , I can go bigger...if not , well at least I have a good quality colour laser printer and a heat press I might have no use for :)
I've read of foils that adhere to a laser print ..Is there any way I could use this on a CLTT'ed product? Would be great for certificates and the like?

[Dan Hintz]

I've read of foils that adhere to a laser print ..Is there any way I could use this on a CLTT'ed product? Would be great for certificates and the like?

There's nothing special about the process, Rodney... anything that has toner on it. You lay the foil down over a printed piece, reheat (you're already getting a press, so there ya go), and peel back the foil carrier. Wherever there was toner will now have foil stuck to it. It makes for great accents.

[Rodne Gold]

Thanks Dan , that will open up a lot of avenues to me , I assume I can use Hot foiling foils or is there a special type I need?

[Mike Null]

Rodney

I have done foils with CLT but not often. It works just fine. The foil I've used has been the laserable kind from Johnson's Plastic. I usually use it for highlights etc .

The pics are the type of foil though I didn't use CLT on them.

You can improve durability by post baking or reheating with a heat gun. I would advise that with name tags. There are also shield sprays you can use.

[Scott Shepherd]

I "want" to love CLTT. I really do. I fought and fought and fought it with no luck and little support. I'd talk to Mike and he'd say "I use 40 seconds" and I'd call MT and they'd say "Try 2 1/2 minutes". Well, there's a boat load of difference in 40 seconds and 2 1/2 minutes. The main thing I was trying to do is to do it on rowmark metal finish lasermax. No matter what, it would distort the finish around the edges. Then one day, it hit me. I had a batch of rotary engraving stock with that same finish (thicker cap sheet), and I tried that and they came out perfect. My conclusion was that some cap sheets are too thin or sensitive for the process. Since I switched away from the lasermax, my luck has turned around. I can use other lasermax products, but the metal finish ones cause me great pain.

I'm getting better at it, but it's been a painful process for me for some reason.

[Bill Overturf]

Dont feel alone Scott I totally gave up on it. Their tech support or lack there of is pathetic to say the least

[Scott Shepherd]

Bill, I would have done the same if it wasn't for Mike. I've called him several times about it and he keeps saying "I just put it in, press it, and it's done. No issues". So I kept figuring I was doing something very wrong. When it works, it's awesome. I love it. When it doesn't work.........well........it's not much fun.

[Mike Null]

Steve

That time issue may be due to the 1" foam pad I buy from Joanne Fabrics. It's at least twice as fast as the thick and expensive silicon pad.

Try doing some transfers on white/black engraving stock and see the colors pop. (the Army plaque above)

Keep in mind that my printer is the old oil fuser type while I believe the new ones have a toner with fuser. ???

Bill, Sorry to say that has been my experienced when dealing with them--if they answer their phones. But they are consistent--they've been that way for more than ten years.:mad:

[Rodne Gold]

The guy I spoke to today said the way to avoid the edges getting distorted was to use an oversize piece of paper on the acrylic or rowmark, he mentioned specifically that if you use paper smaller or exactly the size of the piece you printing on , you see the patch where the paper was and the edge distorts..dunno if that helps? He did say the rowmark does bow when in the heat press after printing , but he lays a weight on it after it comes out the heat press ..will ask him.
Mike , I was hoping to use the foil on small lettering etc , without cutting , weeding , applying..I also dont think we get that laserfoil over here. Also tons of different finishes in hot foiling foils and they are cheap...perhaps CLTT on darker substrates and then heat fuse a foil on it...dunno....Black anodised with gold lettering without engraving and colour filling ...
I also want to try waterslide decals and temporary tats...waterslide for curved stuff .. temp tats just for fun...might even try t-shirts , tho its not a market I want to get into.
The guy I spoke to also said he uses a Hp laserjet 500 and not the more expensive oki , even said he refills his own toner carts , and albeit colours are not always spot on with refills , it works real well.... Price on the Oki does seem expensive , $850... Heat press looks reasonable , its round $1900....the big one MT has. More expensive than their price , but it has to be transported from USA to here. MT CPM paper is round $1.30 a sheet , also more expensive , but available ex stock locally. Has anyone tried the papilio range of CLTT papers?

[Martin Boekers]

Rodney, Yes you can add foil color to Certificates etc....I used to use a cheap pouch laminator to do it.

There is much you can do..... You can use the heat press to do appliques to sweats etc too. Twill USA sells stuff
that can be laser cut. I'm sure you can find similar things close to you. I have transfered to wood and liked it.
The issue there is if the wood has a coating on it you have to transfer to a sheet that will cover the wood or
it will show in the surface. You'll have fun with this and I believe you will find a way to make it profitable! :)


Check these guys out for more transfer material, waterslide works great for candles if you do events or such.

[Scott Shepherd]

The guy I spoke to today said the way to avoid the edges getting distorted was to use an oversize piece of paper on the acrylic or rowmark, he mentioned specifically that if you use paper smaller or exactly the size of the piece you printing on , you see the patch where the paper was and the edge distorts..dunno if that helps? He did say the rowmark does bow when in the heat press after printing , but he lays a weight on it after it comes out the heat press ..will ask him.

Yes, the paper is all the way around. It's often a sheet of 10-12 name tags, all on 1 sheet of printed paper, so it's plenty of overhang on them all. I found a number of things. I bought the 1" foam pad from JoAnne Fabrics. I promptly smoked that pretty good, listening to MT's advice to go up to 340 in temp. I finally just bought the foam pad from MT. It's about 1/4" thick foam. I also backed WAYYYYYY down on my pressure. I'm a lot better at it now than I was 6 months ago. I can actually make product now. Before, it wasn't uncommon to have to make 30 name tags to get an order for 10 completed. Now if I need 2, I can normally take 2 blanks, print 2 images, and get 2 name tags. But it was painful getting there.

[Mike Null]

Rodney

The waterslide decals are excellent though I don't have an application for them. I understand that baking them on makes them dishwasher safe--not sure but worth a try. I've made a lot of t-shirts though I've taken myself out of that business. (here in the US it's very low margin) My heat press is a bit pricy but it's one of those tools that just keeps on ticking--it's an Insta digital pneumatic.

I have a lot of hot stamp foils and have thought of the application you've mentioned but just haven't had a chance to try it.

All the thinner plastics will bow--I hand press them on my cutting table or flatten them with a heat gun--it's not a big deal. When making name tags I make an outline 1/8" larger in each direction than the actual tag. That is how I position the pieces. There should be a slight overlap and the printed area should be slightly larger than the name tag. I get a higher margin on these due to the color. As with all printer products you will not be able to promise matches for PMS colors but I can get close.

[Martin Boekers]

The waterslide decals are much nicer now than when I started using them. First series was on a dextrose base
on paper. after you printed on it you needed to spray a clear coat that stuck to the ink so it gave it substance, if not the ink
dissapated in the water. Now the sheets come with a very thin film, I can see it, to a point giving protection when heated.
I don't know about a dishwasher though.... There are glazing heaters out there now, to help facilitate a more enduring piece.

[Tim Bateson]

My 2 cents:

Cent 1: Baking or Heating as suggested by Mike can make the difference between a so-so/low durability product to a professional finished and much more durable product. I have a couple dog tags that were done with CLTT on my key chain for over a year and only showing minor ware on the edges. On stainless... well most metals it also adds a shine.

Cent 2: Don't forget to use Low-tack/Re-positional spray on any hard surface. When the heat press opens, it often creates a vacuum that lifts the image - sometimes no more than a fraction of a hair, but that's enough to cause distortion - especially around the edges.

[Rodne Gold]

Thanks guys , all very helpful info , should get all my stuff by end next week. I also researched the foiling transfer to already CLTT'ed items , and think I have found just the right foil locally , that foiling excites me even more the CLTTing :)
Would be nice if I can put a foil down first and then full colour CLTT after, should make for some amazing metallic colour effects (IE CLTT black , foil with silver , re register and CLTT full colour, almost like putting a white layer down.

[Dan Hintz]

Would be nice if I can put a foil down first and then full colour CLTT after, should make for some amazing metallic colour effects (IE CLTT black , foil with silver , re register and CLTT full colour, almost like putting a white layer down.
In case you were considering trying it... don't. The fuser in your printer will pick up bits of foil. Expect to purchase a new fuser immediately after.

[Glen Monaghan]

"Expect to purchase a new fuser immediately after."

My thoughts exactly, Dan!

[Scott Shepherd]

I think you might be misunderstanding what he's doing (or either I am!). I think he's saying he'll lay the foil down first on a substrate and then put CLTT over top of the foil. The foil never actually goes through the laser printer, it's on the substrate and the CLTT is just going to lay on top of that foil film that was already put down.

That's my understanding of what he's talking about, but I could be wrong.

[Martin Boekers]

I think your right Scott, also the cool thing with foils is the array of colors and specialty items. Some of it is a pain. But Rodnes has a way to figure things out so I hope he shares
is usage for this!

[Rodne Gold]

NONONONONO..Im not even *considering* a double pass thru the printer..hehehehe

IE CLTT black , foil with silver , re register and CLTT full colour, almost like putting a white layer down.

I assume CLTT means colour laser toner TRANSFER....ie if you CLTT then the toner is already transfered to the substrate

If I were to print black on the transfer paper and put a silver foil on the print with a double pass thru the printer , the top surface that is to go on the substrate would be foil and would not be able to stick to the substrate.

The process I would want to do is print and transfer a black layer to the substrate as an "adhesive" to take the foil , use the heat press to foil on the SUBSTRATE and then use another sheet of full colour printing , register on the substrate and heat press again to transfer the colour atop the foil.

This has the be done using a textile foil that has no heat activated glue on the foil itself , unlike normal hot stamping foil that has a heat activated glue and if heat pressed would stick the foil everywhere not just the black layed.
Textile foil is used to foil garments with a heat activated glue screened onto the garment. The carrier on textile foil will survive the heat pressing required to make the black tacky unlike cold foils (foils with no heat activated glue but not meant to be used with heat cos the carrier melts)

Im not sure it will work , problems I forsee is that the colour layer might not stick to the foil or lift the foil when removing the paper. Worth a try tho

[Mike Null]

I also understood it like Steve. I have put foil down and pressed CLT to it and it works. I haven't run foil through my printer and I would be squeamish about doing it.

I posted this as Rodney was posting his last entry so he has cleared things up.

My hot stamp foil is heat activated and transfers when pressed by the hot stamping machine dies to the substrate. Only the color comes off and the carrier stays on the roll with the unused remainder.

[Martin Boekers]

Rodne remember on Certificates to can print to a a black card stock on the laser printer then foil it and you'll have metallic text on black.
Many scrapebooking shops have all sorts of different card stocks. Also if you want you can ink jet an image to the card stock then laser print and foil transfer.

[Khalid Nazim]

This is an interesting video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTjeN1_buC0&feature=related

Regards
KN

[Richard Rumancik]

. . . (I) want to try use it as an etch mask for brass and stainless steel and aluminium . . .

Hmmm - interesting idea. When I looked at one of the videos on the Magic Touch website it looked like all of the toner transfered from the sheet to the metal. Is this true? (Mike . . . Martin . . . Scott?) I have investigated a lot of "toner transfer" concepts over the years and I have never seen anything that was able to transfer the majority of the toner to the substrate. Since the toner is so thin to start with, the more you can transfer the better.

The DIY PCB people always seem to be struggling with PNP Blue and similar products, in getting a proper transfer to copper (using it as an etch resist) - while the homebrew people print on various papers and use iron-on methods, but then struggle to get the paper off the blank board without damaging the toner. So my question is - why hasn't anyone not adopted the MagicTouch system for circuit boards? Seems to be an easy release, good transfer characteristics . . . am I missing something? For light etching it seems like the Magic Touch system should work.

Another question - I have not used a color laser printer before. I am only interested in black transfers at the moment. I can pick up a OKI C3200 at low cost with empty cartridges - if I replace just the black cartridge will the printer operate normally? Or will it sense that the other cartridges are empty and refuse to print?

[Rodne Gold]

Richard, I , albeit without having actually got into the process, think that the "iron on" is a major part of the problem. I have been advised by my supplier and guys using the CLTT process in South Africa , NOT to skimp on the press (I can get chinese ones at 1/3rd of the price) as it appears its pressure , temp, recovery rate and eveness of heating etc are crucial to the process (apart from the release paper). I imagine that a good heatpress might solve the problems thge other guys are facing?

I have used "sharpies" (permanent markers) as a resist for etching , I think that adherance to substrate and pinholes are more of a problem than thickness of resist layer when it comes to etching...In fact the thinner it is , the more detail one can get.
One of the guys here using CLTT and having a lot of success uses a HP laserjet and not an OKI. He even uses cheap refill toner carts. I can't answer your OKI question but I have further read that there are a lot of brands of laser printer/photocopier that will work. Currently , over here , we can get a B&W laser printer for $100 or so..not too expensive and worth a try.

[Scott Shepherd]

I could understand this completely wrong, but in my mind, there is no toner "transfer" to the substrate. The paper, to me, is like a sheet of clear coat. You print onto that clear coat in reverse. Then you're just transferring that entire clear coat to the substrate. The toner isn't "fused" into the substrate like dye sub. It's just laying on top, in a clear coat that covers the entire piece. That's my description of it, but it would be wrong from a technical standpoint.

Rodney, we started with a cheapy heat press (and non-sawgrass inks for dye sub) and we couldn't get anything done but create headaches. We fought and fought that thing. Finally bought a good printer with Sawgrass ink. Still got very inconsistent results. VERY inconsistent. Would get splotchy looks on colors no matter what. Finally broke down and bought a Geo Knight swing away and it was like all the planets aligned. Without it, we'd be out of the dye sub and CLTT business. I'd never go back. It's just the difference in night and day.

[Mike Null]

Richard

One of the best investments I have made was a $169 refurbished HP4000 Laser Jet. It is black only and I bought a $169 sublimation cartridge for it. I paid for the machine and cartridge with the proceeds from my first job. I bought it from Dolphin Enterprises which I highly recommend. When I'm not using it for sub I put the regular cartridge in and print invoices.

On CLTT if you spot any toner on the transfer paper after you've pressed it you know instantly that you have a reject.

Rodney

One of the reasons to buy a better press is to get more even temperatures across the surface of the platen. As I have said before, my Insta is superb and was part of the $5000 Magic Touch package I bought more than 10 years ago. Today that press sells for $3200.

[Rodne Gold]

Scott , are you sure the paper transfers a clear coat in its entirety to the substrate?
From what I have read and the vids etc I have seen it seems that its only the toner that transfers.
I could be wrong tho as I haven't done the process..if it is like that I would rethink getting into CLTT as I might as well just reverse print on clear vinyl and stick it on the substrate with a waterclear mounting film...

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm pretty sure. Some things you peel when cool, some when warm. If you peel something when it's warm that's supposed to peel when it's cool, you'll peel the clear off around the edges. That's what makes me say that. It could be something else happening, but that's my perception of it. Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding the entire process. If so, it's because some of the vendors don't do a great job and explaining any part of it.

[Richard Rumancik]

I'm really confused now. If the CLTT was transferring a "clear coat" or overlay over the whole image then you could not transfer foil to it like Rodne wanted to. Mike - can you clear this up? Is it bare toner that you are seeing on the metal or is there a selective or full-area coating on the graphic? Can you scrape it off with a knife? Martin suggests it will scratch off and can be removed with acetone . . . making me think it is bare. I have to agree the website leaves a lot to one's imagination.

I can't quite believe it is a full overlay though, as I did find a guy who recommended using CLTT for making circuit boards instead of using the PnP blue. Seems to me that if there was a film over the whole copper board he would not be doing too much etching . . .

Rodne - I agree that using an iron is a big part of the problem with the PnP Blue and similar. Non-uniform and unpredicable heating, no compliant pad or anything, just too many variables. But I suppose the DIY guys don't have the budget for a heat press. In all the discussions I have seen these methods work "some of the time". But I am looking for a process that works 99% of the time.

[Martin Boekers]

I'm not sure if Scott is confusing ink jet with laser toner. If you use toner just the toner will transfer.
As Mike said it should be a complete transfer any thing less and its a reject. I high quality press IS ABSOLUTELY
imperative for CLLT and dye sub, things have come along way from the tee shirt transfer of the 70's.

Scott, yes some items require a cool peel and others a warm peel, similar to vinyls. I think it has to do with the adhesion
property of the substrate. If you peel while it's warm it may not have good adhesion on some substrates as you pull the release
paper off. I do have to say before Magic Touch many that sold this type of transfer were no help. Magic touch has resolved any issues I had with their material.

[Martin Boekers]

As an addendnum, my brother owns an industrial screen shop and uses old HP's to print the positive on mylar
with. He says the old HP's are the best. He does use a product similar to this to build up the density,
Hmmmmmm wonder why I haven't tried that on finished pieces????? :)

Rodny you may want to consider an old HP monochome and get a black toner cartridge and a black sublimation one, then switch them out as needed...

www.rayzist.com/magicdark.php

[Rodne Gold]

Thanks once again for the great info , I'm releived to hear its just the toner that transfers.
We do have a few B&W laser printers at work , Samsung and HP, will give em a bash.
Does one set them to very dark when printing?
IS the Colour printers black merely just black or is it a cmyk type black (using all 4 carts)

[Mike Null]

I will try to describe the transfer as I see it. The CPM paper has a coating to which the toner is adhered. When pressed that coating comes off with the toner. On some substrates--plastic and metal, you can see fine striations on the image. I clean that with denatured alcohol then I post bake. With most hard surface materials I let the item cool before peeling. When using TTC you must peel the moment you remove the item from the press or it will stick and may not be removable.

In any case peeling should be done in a steady but careful and quick motion.

[Scott Shepherd]

I will try to describe the transfer as I see it. The CPM paper has a coating to which the toner is adhered. When pressed that coating comes off with the toner.

That's my view of it as well.

[Tim Bateson]

As Mike said denatured alcohol cleans it up real quick & easy.

[Richard Rumancik]

I will try to describe the transfer as I see it. The CPM paper has a coating to which the toner is adhered. When pressed that coating comes off with the toner. On some substrates--plastic and metal, you can see fine striations on the image. I clean that with denatured alcohol then I post bake. . . .

So the toner is "coated" with the carrier film from the transfer paper . . . I wonder what material actually is. Magic Touch probably won't say. Are you fellows saying that the coating dissolves in alcohol leaving clean toner behind? This would be necessary if one wanted to do foiling - otherwise the film would act like a contaminant with unpredictable results.

If you bake it does Magic Touch tell you to clean the film off before baking? Or do they address this at all?

Seems like they have a useful product but need to be able to communicate technical specs a bit better.

For etching I assume it would not be necessary to remove the film on the toner.

Scott - Mike seems to be saying that only the film on the toner gets transferred, but you originally suggested that a whole sheet of film was being transferred to the part. You could probably tell by looking at a sheet of the backing material - if the toner pulled the carrier off, it would leave a witness shape on the carrier sheet. Are you on board with Mike?

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott - Mike seems to be saying that only the film on the toner gets transferred, but you originally suggested that a whole sheet of film was being transferred to the part. You could probably tell by looking at a sheet of the backing material - if the toner pulled the carrier off, it would leave a witness shape on the carrier sheet. Are you on board with Mike?

Who knows? I do know that there certainly is a witness mark where the material was, on the paper. If it's just the toner transferring, I'm not sure I understand why you can't just do a small section. They tell you the paper MUST cover the entire object. If it was just the toner going over, then it wouldn't matter. You could print a 1" x 3" strip, put it on a 8" x 10" piece and be okay. But they tell you the paper MUST cover the entire object. Just from seeing the film peel back, I had always thought it was a clear film being put over. Also, couple that with the fact that if you have a spec of dirt on the paper, and you press it, you can't wipe that spec of dirt off. It's like it's trapped there for good.

Like I said, I could be completely wrong. I have no reason to think I'm right or wrong, I'm just reporting what I saw and what I thought based on that. Don't even remotely think that I know what I'm talking about. Mike is the only person I've ever spoken to that educated me and we've never discussed this part of it, so I'm just speculating based on my experiences.

[Mike Null]

Guys, I am not the expert I'm being credited with being. I'm just offering observations as I have made in considerable use. The carrier has a very thin film which is transferred with or without toner to the substrate during the pressing. It is visible, though barely, which is why I clean it off with dna. (we are talking only the CPM paper) I believe the striations are caused by heat as the paper rolls around the oil fuser. I can't be sure this occurs with more modern machines as I have never used them.

The toner is somewhat brittle once heated which is why you want to be sure if you are running color to the edge of the substrate you go slightly beyond it. It's possible that when you peel it the toner may crack at the edges.

Coincidentally, I will be running 4 CLT jobs today. 2 name tag orders, a medallion for a perpetual plaque where I'll use ORD on clear acrylic and two plaques where Ill use CPM on brushed gold metal.

[Rodne Gold]

So when you clean it off with DNA, it's no longer there?
Saw on the foil video posted earlier in the thread that they CLTT onto a T-shirt and used the toner as the "glue" for the foil..maybe it's a different paper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTjeN1_buC0&feature=related
from about 18.30 onwards. The use a paper called "exactprint" tho.
Here's a few sites re home made toner paper
http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/How_to_make_laser_toner_transfer_paper.pdf
http://www.electro-tech-online.com/general-electronics-chat/94601-diy-toner-transfer-paper-cheap-easy.html

http://hackaday.com/2010/07/12/make-your-own-toner-transfer-paper/
Look at the comments
At any rate , I will mail TMT and ask the question.
EDIT
I have just called Andre Beaudoin , the head honcho of TMT canada (the US guys werent there) and he says there should definitely NOT be any residue on the substrate or the toner itself , he says if there is temp or dwell is too high??? In fact he said he had an enquiry about foiling atop toner transferred just yesterday (one of the forum members perhaps?). He couldnt answer any question about how good it would be as a chemical or eltroetch resist tho..looks like I will have to try it and see...

[Mike Null]

Rodney

This is not a similar process to the links you have. The dna removes only the transparent striations remaining on the substrate not the toner.

[Rodne Gold]

I assume the striations on the substrate are remmanents of the "coating" or some thin film transferred from the paper after heat pressing, so if DNA removes this from substrate , it "should" also remove it from the top of the toner????
The sites for the home made toner paper were just for interest.

[Mike Null]

Rodney

That is correct.

[Richard Rumancik]

., . . I have just called Andre Beaudoin , the head honcho of TMT canada (the US guys werent there) and he says there should definitely NOT be any residue on the substrate or the toner itself , he says if there is temp or dwell is too high??? In fact he said he had an enquiry about foiling atop toner transferred just yesterday (one of the forum members perhaps?). He couldnt answer any question about how good it would be as a chemical or eltroetch resist tho..looks like I will have to try it and see...

It was me who contacted Andre . . . I sent TMT Canada an inquiry on Saturday and Andre answered it sometime Sunday (I didn't actually expect him to be working the weekend.) My main question was whether there was any film transferred and you probably got the same answer I did - he suggested that if film is transferred the temp was too high. But I'm still a bit unsure and still collecting evidence, as Mike and Scott are both seeing something that is being transferred, even if it is very thin. I guess it is a matter of degree - at the level we are looking at the product, we need to know if there is anything else on the surface besides toner.

I'm tending to believe there is some kind of residue all over - Scott is seeing particles being trapped. (Scott, I do appreciate your input to this; you have some real hands-on experience with the product which I don't.) And maybe transfer can be minimized by controlling heat/time. But that is not a showstopper for appearance or for etch or foiling, if alcohol will remove it.

Andre was not sure about whether foiling would work, as you know Rodne. I asked about foil more because you were interested Rodne, but he could not give a definitive answer on that question. He said he might try foiling but I don't know if he has the right kind of foil available.

But I was also thinking that adding a layer of foil might be useful to increase etch resistance if needed. One of the PCB transfer suppliers has some kind of secondary foil that they apply before etching, to help seal the toner. The Pulsar product is here:

http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/products/toner_foils.html

(They also have a white version for simulating a screenprint for identification purposes.)

Andre was probably surprised to get a similar inquiry from two different people 15000 km apart. The internet sure makes the world smaller.

[Mike Null]

What sets the CPM paper apart is the film type coating on the paper. This film, I suspect, is a release agent that other papers don't have which is why the other papers I have tried stick to the substrate and ruin the piece. The film is not apparent until the paper has been printed then it appears as a very thin clear surface.

[Martin Boekers]

Now I am confused...:) I started using Magic Touch on transfer to store bought tiles. I used glossy white. Where the image (toner) was transfered it had a matte/satin type finish.
If the "film" from the paper would transfer with it would it not take away the glossy finish on non toner areas? I haven't seen a full transfer of the the spots other than the toner areas.
When I did coated wood, I used a sheet to cove ther whoe piece as the pressure and heat would deboss the paper shape into the coating. I guess that may be why the recommend
uncoated wood. Each may have diferent experiences, so testing may be the way you will find out what works for you.

[Tim Bateson]

... he suggested that if film is transferred the temp was too high...

Maybe it's film, maybe it's some type of adhisive, I don't know. What I do know for fact is something IS transferred and if I used a lower temperature and/or shorter time, I don't get a good transfer. On some materials it's not noticeable, but I do a lot of stainless steal and it's very noticeable, but removable dna.

[Tim Bateson]

...If the "film" from the paper would transfer with it would it not take away the glossy finish on non toner areas? I haven't seen a full transfer of the the spots other than the toner areas...

After baking and a little dna puts a shine on it. I sometime just put a piece under an open (hot) press for the baking.

[Tim Bateson]

I wish I had a before shot, but it had a dull yellowish film you could see around the edges of the graphic. This is cleaned up and post basked in the heat press. FYI, since these have rubber bottoms, you have to be a bit "creative" to use in a heat press.
252408

[Martin Boekers]

Tim what Magic Touch material are you using? I went through mine and tested it again and I can see any "perimeter" transfer to the tiles.

[Mike Null]

Martin

The stuff I'm talking about covers the entire image as well as the blank area where the paper touched the substrate.

[Martin Boekers]

Mike I'm using CPM 6.4, I am transfering to a hi gloss white ceramic tile. The toner area comes out more of a satin.
You definitely can see the difference between the transfer area and the white tile. Maybe the brand of laser printer
has something to do with it?

I have had some tiles I didn't like the transfer on and Acetone took the toner right off. I haven't seen a ful transfer.

Mike looking at the pallet plaques you make on the aluminum I can't see any thing there either, did you clean those up?

It seems like we each have different experience with this. I used it to transfer to finished wood, the only reason I used a
sheet to cover the whole plaque was the paper left an impression in the clear coat when it was heated.

[Tim Bateson]

Same paper. For your tile, have you tried Denatured Alcohol to clean off the film, then post bake? Post baking is very important for a more durable image and brings out the gloss.

[Martin Boekers]

I have post baked it and it does give the toner area a sheen, I have looked at a transfer tile and at an non transfered tile and can.t see any film on it at all.
I even scraped it a bit. I will say that off and on some areas did have some spots where "film" or something transfered, it was more rubberized though and a couple "finger" rubs removed it.

It seems when I first used this after seeing it at a NBM show, the demo folks said only the toner was supposed to transfer. I guesws a call to Magic Touch could clear this up. :)

[Mike Null]

Marty

I always cleaned those with dna then polished with a microfiber cloth.

It's possible that this film is only apparent with certain makes of printers. Keep in mind that mine is 11 years old and has an oil fuser.

By the way, I print and press using the MT instructions.

[Mike Null]

Yesterday I received some cpm 6.4 sheets from a customer who had printed them on their Xerox machine. They were lousy prints (not enough toner density) but there was no residue at all on them. From that I can only conclude that my oil fuser printer is the cause of the striations I see on all of my prints.

The reason the customer printed them is that I am unable to match their PMS color with my machine even though I've tried all my palettes and over 100 iterations. I finally threw in the towel and told the customer for the second time that I cannot guarantee color matching.

[Rodne Gold]

We should have our stuff sometime this week , was collected 1600km away from us on Monday afternoon , apart from trying the system out , we will do etching tests as a first priority and foiling tests thereafter. Good to hear there is no residue ..was worrying me a bit...
At any rate , I bought for the colour transfer ability to wood metal etc , and for using ORD paper on acrylic, if it does other stuff its a cherry on top.. Quite excited to mess with it all , I like new stuff that I can play with :)
Do you find the MT videos are spot on re transfer? Use em as a start point?

[Mike Null]

Use them as a starting point. But do use the pads as recommended. A word to the wise--always check your transfers before printing for dirt and voids then check the transfer paper after the job is done to be sure there is no toner left on it. If there is toner then you have a defective item.

I peel most hard stuff cold.

The residue I get still comes off quite easily with dna. Post baking will prove worthwhile. As I mentioned before I use a heat gun rather than an oven.

[Rodne Gold]

Just as a matter of interest , what are your yields in terms of toner carts , the printer blurb says 2000 pages black with 5% coverage and 2000 pages colour with 5% coverage...evidently these are the "starter" carts that come with the printer... the 6000 page toner carts (at 5%) are hellishly expensive , a full set costs more then the printer (round $200 per colour) The total cost for 4 carts is close to $800
Lets say , I get the 6000 page carts , could I realistically work on 1500 pages for general CLTT work
IE round 60c a page assuming a full set is $800 ..is that reasonable as an assumption?

[Dan Hintz]

Can't answer that exact question, but it's often a lot cheaper to just repurchase the printer than get replacement cartridges... it's a landfill waste, but it's cheaper than purchasing replacement toner, fusers, etc. You could also use the older one as a laminating machine ;)

[Martin Boekers]

Just as a matter of interest , what are your yields in terms of toner carts , the printer blurb says 2000 pages black with 5% coverage and 2000 pages colour with 5% coverage...evidently these are the "starter" carts that come with the printer... the 6000 page toner carts (at 5%) are hellishly expensive , a full set costs more then the printer (round $200 per colour) The total cost for 4 carts is close to $800
Lets say , I get the 6000 page carts , could I realistically work on 1500 pages for general CLTT work
IE round 60c a page assuming a full set is $800 ..is that reasonable as an assumption?

Some laser printer sites have a picture that show how much is used, that way you can tell a bit easier, being a photographer, I used to print calenders and I opted
for a lease and a per print price. I believe the cost was $.07 for B&W and $.23 for color per sheet. I wanted to do this then I know my printed cost so I could control
a fixed cost per calander. The company new that at the time I leased it and said my usage would be fine, 6 months later they cancelled the contract..... Said I need adigital press!!!

Yes toner cartidges are expensive, esp hi capacity ones, quite a bit cheaper than ink jet though.. Still a good area for mark up on your work. Dye Sub 110ml cost about $110.00
With toner if your a small business you can use the same printer for generic work flow, so the only additional expense is a press and transfer paper. Pretty cheap to open up a new market!

[Rodne Gold]

Ta Martin , I don't have the option to lease etc here , I might use the unit to do certificates , we use a pretty expensive (in inks) canon photo printer
I wanted to work out costs per A4 sheet , currently paper here is round $1.35 and my calc on printing costs is $0.60 = total cost of $2 and I would round up to $2.50 including wasteage etc.
Apart from the item you are CLTTing , I would probably charge at least $10-$15 to do the CLTTing... does that sound like a reasonable price or is it OTT?

[Martin Boekers]

Rodne, if you plan on doing a lot of certificates it may be cheaper to design then have the basic stuff printed and add the text or personalization in your shop.

Pricing? you know your market better than us :) are you just saying $10-$15 for the transfer and pricing the substrate extra? Sounds about right.

I don't sell many certificates, but I offer them (no metallics on text) I have laser printed to metallic card stock, looks decent. A standard Cert with holder I charge
$15-$25 depending upon design time and if the want a transfer to the cover.

[Mike Null]

Rodney

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but if I were looking for a new printer I'd probably buy an OKI 711WT for it's ability to print white. I understand MT has drivers for this machine.

[Richard Rumancik]

Mike, have you seen what the black and greys looks like? Although theory says that mixing cyan, yellow, and magenta will give you black, I wonder how it actually looks. In the printing business if you do that, you can end up with a muddy looking black. Maybe with CLTT there is enough "mixing" due to the heat that it will actually look black. (This machine would have to be pretty much dedicated for CLTT, as it would not really be suitable for printing on regular paper stock.) It is a good feature, however, when you really have to have white in the graphic.

[Mike Null]

Richard

I haven't seen that machine in operation --only read a few comments by other engravers. On mine the cmyk black is dense black rather than the gray as the comparison shows on the Corel cmyk and rgb palettes.

BTW--if you want to send me a piece of copper and a file I'll print a circuit board for you to try.

[Rodne Gold]

The 711 that prints white is something like $5000 here (seen it at $3500 and a lot more in the US) price of white toner in the US is $550.....erk!!!!
The CLTT process using wht is also a kludge of sorts , you got to print and lay down the white first and then print the colour atop it , 2 papers , 2 heat transfers.
Edit: I see TMT GB has it for 2000 quid and a wht cart is 260 quid or so..a bit more reasonable...but still steep...
http://www.themagictouch.co.uk/acatalog/A4-TMT-OKI-W711-Digital-Colour-Laser-Printer.html

[Martin Boekers]

MT does have a material with a white base for pressing to the reverse side of clear acrylic, its ok, not real saturated colors as UV printers, but it does has it's uses.

I believe it's called ORD.

[George Brown]

Have you seen this?

http://www.dyetrans.com/transfer-papers.php?nav=transfer_paper
http://www.dyetrans.com/detail.php?item_no=LQ-1117C&nav=transfer_paper

Price not too bad, and looks fairly simple.

[Martin Boekers]

Have you seen this?

http://www.dyetrans.com/transfer-papers.php?nav=transfer_paper
http://www.dyetrans.com/detail.php?item_no=LQ-1117C&nav=transfer_paper

Price not too bad, and looks fairly simple.


MT has a similar product called WOW, Seen at a show a few years back.

I was just on MT site and saw a newer product, OBM, but you need a cutter for a profile trim.
A bit more expensive than the injet vinyl I use now, plus I get nervous running things like this through a laser printer......

[Rodne Gold]

An update.

We got our printer and press etc , and I was MAJORLY annoyed , the printer was playing up from the first print , unfused black toner everywhere , paper wrappong round the fuser drum. We spent 2 days cleaning and trying to get it right.

We phoned the agent as its under warrantee (3 yrs) , and they sent us to their official repair facility (Who happens to be owned by my cousin)
It turned out we hadn't removed a transport clip on the fuser unit ..not well documented in the manual but it was shown...anyway he told my guys he was gonna send us an invoice for "stupidity" :)

So far we have tried CPM and ORD on these materials: Gold and silver matt anodised aluminium , brass , mirror finish anacoil, 0.8mm and 1.5mm rowmark type materials , 3 , 5 and 8mm clear acrylic , white acrylic , stainless steel and wood.

Results are VERY good ,Colours come out really vibrant and detial is impressive.
A few "mishaps" as we find the right temps , dwell time and pressures for the various substrates (incomplete transfers mostly) , we are using the same press as TMT does , same printer etc , but are finding their posted times/temps etc in the videos are not what we need.
We still have to try etching using the toner as a resist and try foiling atop the resist.

Durability without post baking is poor , easily scratched off with a fingernail however most of what we are going to do will never be handled .
I took the advice here and am using a heat gun for post baking , we tried the press as a post bake , but it wasn't as effective. Post baking makes it MUCH more durable , but I would be hesitiant to use CLTT for something like an uncoated keytag which will be handled a lot.
Doming works very well with no bleed etc , once an item is domed , obviously the durability is not an issue.

NO significant warping problems with any of the materials when doing the CLTT , the 0.8mm (1/32") Chines rowmark type materials did come out with a very slight warp , but this is understandable.
We make a lot of 20mm thick "slab" awards , and albeit the press says you can use 25mm thick stuff in it , my workshop manager says it won't close properly , but maybe he means the handle wont snap into locked position , maybe we just have to press down and hold it manually...will investigate later today.

I can see a lot of potential with this machine , bearing in mind all the other machines and processes we have.

[Tim Bateson]

...but I would be hesitiant to use CLTT for something like an uncoated keytag which will be handled a lot...

Mine have held up very well. No worse than those that are anodized.

[Rodne Gold]

I'll try with some more post bake time , we cant scratch the stuff off with a fingernail , but I tried a scotchbrite pad , after the 2nd or 3rd "lightish stroke" we saw deterioration...maybe my torture test is a little too much and I'm expecting too much .. but I would rather test using a worst case scenario..easier to see exactly what the limits are.
However I am impressed , its an inexpensive way of adding a lot of value to our stuff.....
EDIT: I tried a longer post bake and it is now very durable...also the thick stuff and press issue is that the press wont "click" closed , so you have to manually apply pressure (IE hang on the handle)
We could probably modify it tho , but It's new , so won't fiddle.

[Mike Null]

Rodney

Glad you're finding success with the process. Like you I don't use it to make items that will be handled frequently but I do make a lot of name tags and have not had any complaints. I get around $10-$12 for name tags with magnets. All of a sudden I have three orders in two days that will use ORD on 3mm clear acrylic to mount photos to plaques.

I haven't been happy with the results on wood but the fabric paper works well as does the ORD and the CPM has been my standby.

I do have a pneumatic press so regulating the pressure is no issue.

If I didn't mention it earlier I use CPM on white laminated engravers plastic and cut various shapes such as military shields and press them to very good effect. I also make my own discs for plaques.

I don't use this printer for anything but CLT which preserves my cartridges.

The photo (cell phone) is of an ORD piece where I felt the colors came out exactly as desired. The name plate was done with Laser sub.

[Tim Bateson]

Duplicate post, sorry.

[Tim Bateson]

Ok, there is some degradation, but keep in mind the CLTT was done April 2011, first picture was from July 2011 and the second today. That's nearly 2 years. I think that's pretty good ware. Also I scrubbed it with the wrong sponge trying to make it more presentable for the last picture.
253750253751

[Khalid Nazim]

Rodne what printer and heat press did you buy?

Regards
KN

[Mike Null]

Today, by accident, I discovered another supplier of hard goods transfer paper. It is Coastal Business Supplies here in St. Louis. They weren't aware of what they had (they sell it as mug paper) but we were forced to test some and it worked on plastic quite well and at a lower temp than CPM. It's also half the price of CPM but comes in 11 x 17 sheets only.

I will test it on metal over the weekend and if it works there I will switch.

[Rodne Gold]

Khalid , I bought the Oki 610n printer
http://www.themagictouch.co.uk/acatalog/TMT_OKI_A4.html
and the TMT234 heat press
http://www.themagictouchusa.com/p238/TMT-234+-Heat-Press/product_info.html
My heat press is the 234 not the 234+ , difference is that mine cant do 2" thick stuff , but only1"..was quite expensive , about 3-4x the price of chinese heat presses that are in our market , but I was told by many ppl that the item you DON'T want to skimp on is the press.

Mike , I have read of people using glossy magazine paper to do transfers (for PCB's) , we have an old black only laser printer..I might try it..
I would imagine the secret to the paper is in the coating the toner fuses onto , must stick on ok and melt off ok..

[Mike Null]

Rodney

I saw that article but I a very squeamish about what I put into my printer as jams can be very expensive. One time I ruined my oil fuser and the replacement cost me $400. I have replaced it once again (wear) but found new ones on line for $150.

MT paper has always been flawless going through my printer so I have been loyal to them even with their high prices. But I'm always on the lookout for cheaper stuff that will work.

As far as the new paper I found I will have to get some samples as my customer's customer printed the new stuff for us due to a color matching problem.

[Richard Rumancik]

. . . Mike , I have read of people using glossy magazine paper to do transfers (for PCB's) , we have an old black only laser printer..I might try it.. I would imagine the secret to the paper is in the coating the toner fuses onto , must stick on ok and melt off ok..

Rodne, I have never made PCBs but have followed what those fellows do with the idea of applying it to etching brass etc. But I always hear of such inconsistent results it is hard for me to get excited. Some people use glossy inkjet photo paper in a laser to do toner transfer, others are using clay papers, magazine papers, Avery-label backing sheets, and making their own dextrin-based paper so they don't have to buy anything. But for the most part all I hear is that it works . . . sometimes. I am not looking for a solution that works sometimes.

There is always the risk of damaging your toner cartridge running strange stuff through it. A few years ago I ran the Avery backing material through my HP 1300 to test that idea. Well, let's just say it was a good thing that the toner cartridge was a older one.

One of the big problems I hear about with magazine paper and clay paper is removing the paper from the toner after the transfer. A water soak alone won't do it. You need to abrade/roll off the residue with your finger without damaging the toner. Sorry, I don't have time for that. Plus I want 100% toner transfer (I want all the toner I can get onto the substrate.) You are right in that the secret is getting the toner to stick well enough in the laser to stay on the paper - and then release entirely when reheated in the press. Easier said than done.

So by all means give magazine paper a try and let us know what you see. I won't cost much as you are set up and you might luck out on the right combination of paper and toner and laser printer and heat press that makes it all work. But in my reading on the Internet, it is common that person "A" comes up with a recipe and person "B" can't reproduce the results. Because Staples changed their inkjet photo paper. Or HP changed their toner. Or unknown causes. Personally I wouldn't mind paying a few bucks for the paper if it is consistent. I am still in research mode though and have not tried any transfers yet.

[Richard Rumancik]

. . .MT paper has always been flawless going through my printer so I have been loyal to them even with their high prices. But I'm always on the lookout for cheaper stuff that will work. . . .

Mike, I've been hunting as well as it is a lot more difficult to get papers here in Canada. It is a bit confusing as some distributors re-sell paper and they tend to present it as their own product so it isn't always clear exactly what they have.

I've been looking at Neenah Paper as well - have you heard of it or tried it? They sell a product called Mugs 'n More which is supposed to be good for mugs, cups tiles, glass, wood, and metal. Sometimes referred to as Product 9710PO. Actually I think Coastal sells this too - or is that what you are testing right now?

One thing that I learned is that some papers have a grain to them - you have to feed them a certain way into the printer. Have you come across this Mike? I can't feed paper as letter-R (sideways) as my printer is a regular laser and can't handle 11 x 17.

[Mike Null]

Neenah is a primary supplier of transfer paper as well as other papers and a number of companies use them to brand their products. The Mugs and More is exactly what I found but it seems that Coastal is unaware of what it can do. I've had a few chats with their sales manager and he was unaware of a hard products paper.

Monday I have to deliver an order within a couple of blocks of their office so I'll pick up some samples and test them in my printer. (the ones I have now were printed by a customer)

Papers do seem to have a grain and in most cases MagicTouch prints an arrow on the back for reference. If you want to avoid jams pay attention to the marks. The Mugs and More paper is only 11 x 17 but I can't detect a grain. I will have to cut it in half and run it perpendicular to the way my customer ran the full sheets. If that works I think I'll buy this paper. One thing you can do is fold a 3 or 4 inch strip of Scotch tape over the leading edge. That does help to eliminate jams.

[Rodne Gold]

Well the first few tries of printing really messed with our printer , paper wrapped around the fuser unit (which we had to dissasemble and clean) and jams , luckily it worked perfectly afterward.....
You are right , the cost of the MT touch is little compared to profits and potential problems of other papers and we "bought into the system" (IE the expensive press and printer and use their printer drivers).

I have had good results , albeit some "patchy" transfers at first till we got the time/temp/pressure thing right.

I will try some etching this coming week, if my production manager hasn't tried it already. I am a little concerned over trying a full a4 page with 100% success , currently we have been printing 4 up on a page and slicing it up and using the smaller pieces 4"x 6".
In my case , I am actually not all that "involved" in doing this with my own grubby paws , my designer and production guy are doing a lot of the experimenting with me just inspecting the results and suggesting fixes for any problems.

The issue with most guys doing pcb etching seems that they all use an iron , there is , imo , no way that that can be at all consistent in terms of temp/dwell/pressure that seems critical when doing CLTT.
Positive (inward) etching like for lettering etched into a plate, requires mostly resist with few voids , that means pretty much a whole lotta black , and that , based on my VERY limited experience with CLTT requires even more of a reason to use a very consistent press. Luckily , one could most likely use paint or some other resist to fill small pinholes etc.

Just as an aside , when we first did etching many many years ago , I found a stuff called positiv 20 http://www.arc.ro/userfiles/docs/ecomm/Brosura%20POSITIV20.pdf
I used to go into the strongroom we had at the time , close the door , spray the plate , let it dry. Then used to go across the road to the library , print the identical artwork on 2 or 3 transparencies on their photocopier. Then line em all up (to get a dense black) , go into the strongroom and then tape the lined up stuff on the metal plate , then sandwhich it all tween 2 sheets of glass. Go outside and stick it all on the roof of my car for a few minutes in the sun to expose. Develop and etch ......I got some excellent results...
Problem was , cloudy days :)

[George Brown]

Mike , I have read of people using glossy magazine paper to do transfers (for PCB's) , we have an old black only laser printer..I might try it..
I would imagine the secret to the paper is in the coating the toner fuses onto , must stick on ok and melt off ok..

Be careful of paper not intended to be put through a laser printer. The toner may not stick to the paper and deposit on the hot fuser, damaging it. Also, the fuser may pick up some stuff from the glossy magazine paper, again damaging it. Fuser rollers are pretty fussy.

[Richard Rumancik]

. . .The issue with most guys doing pcb etching seems that they all use an iron , there is , imo , no way that that can be at all consistent in terms of temp/dwell/pressure that seems critical when doing CLTT. . .

Yes, the iron is definitely a problem; they use a iron to get lots of pressure but every iron I have seen is pretty much flat even on the tip. So it is not really a good tool to heat the transfer paper. The hobbyists with the most success seem to use a laminator but the problem there is that most laminators are not meant for thick PCB so they end up misusing/abusing the laminator. Theoretically you should be able to get more pressure (force per unit of area) using a roller than a flat press, but for our industry a roll laminator is just not appropriate. It has to work using a heat press. I think the MT papers and the similar papers are designed to release with a lot less pressure than it takes to get toner off of magazine paper, photo paper or even PnP blue and similar.


. . Positive (inward) etching like for lettering etched into a plate, requires mostly resist with few voids , that means pretty much a whole lotta black , and that , based on my VERY limited experience with CLTT requires even more of a reason to use a very consistent press. Luckily , one could most likely use paint or some other resist to fill small pinholes etc.

I was thinking that it might be quickest to apply foil at that stage - at least that is what the Pulsar guy does with his PCB method, so as to close up any pinholes and cracks in the toner. I suppose if there are large black areas, you could over-mask the solid black with vinyl or tape up to the text area, but it could be fiddly work depending on the graphic.

[Dan Hintz]

I have read of people using glossy magazine paper to do transfers (for PCB's) , we have an old black only laser printer..I might try it..

I'll also suggest against it (at least on any machine you wish to keep in running order). The magazine pages work because of the high wax / clay content, but as mentioned before, that stuff can come off of the page and ruin your fuser... you would be much better off use a high-clay content inkjet paper that is clean white.

[Mike Null]

If I were attempting to use an iron to transfer an image I think I would use a thin piece of foam under it to help ensure more even heating over the area of the transfer. That would lengthen the press time but will give a better result.

[Rodne Gold]

Tried some wood , a lacquered oak plaque (with quite a grain structure) and results were pretty poor. Didnt matter what temp and dwell we used. Results on that "fake wood" type plaque (I think its a vinyl put over a cheap MDF base) were actually pretty good.
I reckon the lacquer and grain structure or the real wood plaque were to blame , so in all likelyhood we won't be offering CLTT on wood...(not that it was important for me for it to succeed on wood , it was just an incidental substrate to try)

[Martin Boekers]

Tried some wood , a lacquered oak plaque (with quite a grain structure) and results were pretty poor. Didnt matter what temp and dwell we used. Results on that "fake wood" type plaque (I think its a vinyl put over a cheap MDF base) were actually pretty good.
I reckon the lacquer and grain structure or the real wood plaque were to blame , so in all likelyhood we won't be offering CLTT on wood...(not that it was important for me for it to succeed on wood , it was just an incidental substrate to try)


I have done this with Alder and it came out nicely. I had to position the image on the paper so the paper covered the whole piece. It seems that
if I didn't do that I got and impression of the paper edge in the finish on the plaque. I guess that's why they recommend unfinished plaques. :)

[Mike Null]

Rodney

I am not impressed with the results on wood either.

[Balsanu Gabi]

Hi,

I also want to jump into CLTT, but I have some questions:
- what is the smallest thickness of acrylic which can be heat pressed without wrapping?
- can I put an image on both sides (on acrylic or metals)?
- how can I make the image more brighter (printer does not have white toner)?
- what kind of clear varnish do you apply for outdoor use?

Thank you
Gabi

[Balsanu Gabi]

Nobody has some answers to my questions???

[Mike Null]

I would suggest you do some searching on the forum for CLT. There have been a number of threads related and you will find many answers there. Also check this web site as they have considerable information and videos. http://www.themagictouchusa.com/

You can transfer to acrylic as thin as guitar picks on both sides--it's in their video. You can transfer to both sides of metal as well.

The only way to make images brighter is to use a white substrate or a printer that can print white.

You can search the finishing forum or post a question there related to varnish for outdoors.

[Balsanu Gabi]

Hi to all,

Does anyone know what is the thickness of the silicone pad sold by Magic Touch? And also another source? They want too much money for that.

Thank you
Gabi

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi to all,

Does anyone know what is the thickness of the silicone pad sold by Magic Touch? And also another source? They want too much money for that.

Thank you
Gabi

I don't have another source, but I had a silicone pad I used for dye sub and I kept having problems. Bought their pad (so I can go to them if I had problems and not have to hear "what pad are you using"), and things started working much, much better. The dye sub pad has texture to it, the MT pad is slick and smooth.

[Martin Boekers]

I use three different pads green textured pad, a "cream colored" silcone pad and a yellow felt pad. The silicone and felt pad I use for sublimation.
Yup, rubber pads ain't cheap.....

[Mike Null]

Gabi

For some MT things you can use a 1" thick green foam pad that you can get at the fabric store. When you use that you cut the time in half.