Electrical Heating Questions

[Raymond Fries]

My daughter is living in a really old apartment that has electrical baseboard and she is wanting to possible reduce her electrical heating bill. Hopefully, some of the HVAC gurus here can offer some advice.
Question #1 - Can she save some money by purchasing energy efficient space heaters and not running the base board heaters?
Question #2 – Can anyone recommend space heater options with these constraints? Her wiring does not have the three prong ground; it is the old style two prong wires. She needs a 14000 BTU heater or 4020 watts. At Menards, the only one that met her requirements stated “Do not use with an adapter”

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Stephen Cherry]

One thing I would recommend is an electric blanket. I can't use one; if I did, I would get into bed in early November, and get out in March.

It would let her turn the heat way back at night. She also would want to turn it way back if she is not there during the day. Space heaters can help if you can turn off the heat in unused rooms.

[Dan Hintz]

I'd also be concerned about putting heavy loads on a wall circuit that hasn't been checked all of the way back to the box... those old places (particularly apartments) just have a knack for poor electrical work.

[Jason Roehl]

To answer your question, NO, she can't save money by purchasing "energy efficient space heaters". The heat given off by a conductor is determined by the current. Ohm's Law rules the day. V = I * R (voltage, current, resistance). Electric heaters are all resistors, so for a given amount of heat at the same voltage, you'll need the same current. P (power) = I * V, so whether the heater is 120 V or 240 V doesn't matter, either, you'll need the same total power, which will make the meter spin the same amount.

Some of the suggestions above are her only real options. Don't run the heaters when she doesn't need to, and don't heat space she doesn't need to. Reduce total heater usage.

[David Weaver]

Portable heat pump, maybe. Anything with quartz bulbs or that kind of stuff won't do more than any other space heater.

Portable heat pump will dog some when it's cold for real and need somehow to vent to the outside, but it would be the only thing that could actually be more efficient. They're not cheap.

The only way the baseboards could be improved on by a space heater would be if they were dumping a lot of heat into the wall. I doubt there's much to gain there. Like others, I wouldn't want to load circuits that are who-knows-what wiring.

[Steve Meliza]

Every time someone mentions a portable heater I get a mental image of a house fire. In the winter you don't have to wait long between news stories about houses and apartment fires cause by a portable heater. She's not going to get a 4020W working on a 120V outlet and likely can't get over about 1000W before she starts blowing fuses or popping breakers because of other loads on that same circuit and wiring that is likely #14 and only good for 15A.

Since she has working and safe baseboard heat and the conversion to electric to thermal energy is very efficient you can only control the use of the heater and efficiency of the apartment. Turn the heat down and put on more closes, don't heat rooms you're not using, and make sure there are no drafts around doors and windows. The other option is to move. When I was searching for a place to stay for 6 months in upstate NY the #1 advice was to make sure not to get a place with electric heat as it was far more expensive than other forms of heat.

[Pat Barry]

I tend to think that a small portable electric heater is an efficient solution for a localized heating problem. For example, if you want to warm up when sitting on a couch in a basement it can provide directed heating and is comfortable. I do this and it works well. Wattage is only 1500 max so it can not heat a large space quickly but it can help for point of use. I have the 1500 Watt Holmes brand and they work great.

[Brian Elfert]

Electric resistance heaters are generally 100% efficient by their nature. As pointed out, a small heater to heat only the space in use could help. Heat pumps are more efficient, but I wasn't aware you can get a portable version.

[Chris Friesen]

While the conversion of electricity to heat is 100% efficient, it's possible to waste that energy. If you can concentrate more heat on the person and less on heating up the whole space you could use less energy overall. This is a variation on the "don't heat space you don't need to" theme.

[Dan Hintz]

Electric resistance heaters are generally 100% efficient by their nature.

Close enough for government work, but not 100% ;) If you see a glow, that's one clue you're not 100% efficient...

[Myk Rian]

Changing out the baseboard heaters won't help. New ones will use the same power the old ones did.

[Lee Schierer]

Changing out the baseboard heaters won't help. New ones will use the same power the old ones did.

When we purchased our house we had electric base board heaters. They worked pretty good, it was the thermostats that were the problem. Since they were line voltage thermostats, there was a 5 degree temperature swing between on and off. We used to turn them down 10 degrees at night and back up in the morning. Rooms warmed up pretty quickly. You could really feel that 5 degree swing. I don't know if newer ones are better or if you can get a programmable one for line voltage use. We switched to a geothermal heat pump and don't regret it we now have a 2 degree temp range and lower electric bills.

She might want to pull the covers off the heaters and vacuum the dust off the fins and insure that she is getting good air flow through the registers. Dog and cat hair really accumulates in the registers. Carpeting and furniture too close can impede the air flow.

[Steve Peterson]

There may not be too many rooms to close off in an appartment. She could close off the bedroom and only heat that at night, then keep it closed and heat the living room during the day. A heated mattress pad may allow her to avoid heating the bedroom.

Also, heavy drapes would help retain as much heat as possible.

Steve

[Raymond Fries]

Thanks for all of the good tips everyone. She does close off a spare room and turn the heat down when not there but cannot go to low because of pets. I am going to help her insulate her windows this weekend after she told me that she can feel some air coming in through the cracks.

So "Energy Efficient Heaters" must mean better efficiency in distributing the heat. Seems kind of mis-leading to us.

[Myk Rian]

So "Energy Efficient Heaters" must mean better efficiency in distributing the heat. Seems kind of mis-leading to us.
It is misleading. They just want you to buy them. My MIL bought new ones throughout her home, because the old ones made creaking noises while warming or cooling. Too bad she didn't ask me first. The new ones did the same thing.

[Greg Portland]

Is ductless (mini split) an option? Depending on your climate you might need to supplement with the electric when it gets very cold.

[Myk Rian]

Is ductless (mini split) an option? Depending on your climate you might need to supplement with the electric when it gets very cold.
The heating IS electric. Indiana gets cold.

[Greg Portland]

The heating IS electric. Indiana gets cold.
Right, that's my point. Daikin and Mitsubishi have some units that maintain their capacity down into the single digits. The heating load of the home might be more in those situations so some supplemental electric heat would help. However, my uncle runs a Mitsubishi in central PA without any supplemental heat. Since the OP already has electric heat he'd just need to install the mini-split system. The caveats would be the look of the registers & determining if the home has enough electric power for the heat pump.