careful ordering tools

[Drew Watson]

I have ordered a few tools from Grizzly before. Two I picked up and one delivered with no issues. With that experience being good I ordered another tool a thickness planer and the first shipment arrived looking like someone had taken a hammer to the paint with cracks and chips everywhere. It was returned and a second machine sent out with the promise that it would be inspected first. It arrived today with the box looking like it had been run into with a fork lift and bashed around. Upon initial inspection I couldn't see any damage other than a hold down strap had been damaged ( no big deal) it was only when I opened it did I discover two chunks of cast iron sitting under the machine. Turns out the fork lift bars that come with the machine had been driven hard enough to break two small ribs off the cast table. ( an issue but not a big one) then I noticed that the wheel for moving it had been damaged by the fork lift (the initial damage on the box) Still not a huge deal as that can be replaced and fixed. Now for the big one the paint is again cracked in certain places. this was the reason that it was sent back and suppose to have been inspected before shipping.

[Myk Rian]

This sounds like a rant.

[Matt Meiser]

I hope you noted the shipping damage on the outside of the box. You really aren't going to be happy if you didn't.

[Mike Goetzke]

The paint is probably a Grizz problem but the shipping companies don't seem to know how to handle large equipment no matter what the brand.

Mike

[Mark Ashmeade]

....So either it happened in transport of Grizzly just doesn't give a damn about sales and keeping the customers happy.

I think you'll find that they do. They very much do. It wouldn't surprise me if Shiraz himself pipes up on this thread, apologises, promises he will make it right, and then open a can of whoopass in private.

Sorry to hear you've had a problem. They've been very good for me.

[Jim Andrew]

I ordered a planer, a shaper and a power feeder in December, to take advantage of the special pricing, and the only thing broken was a plastic handle for the power feeder. The planer was delivered in a plywood box, the shaper in cardboard, and the power feeder in cardboard. None of the boxes were damaged. SAIA trucking delivered mine, and they had the boxes tied to the inside wall of the truck.

[Mark Bolton]

No offense but what I find funny is that cracked cast iron, a fork impact to a hand wheel which may or may not have bent the shaft, who knows what ever other structural issue may or may not effect the machine, "the big one" is the paint being chipped.

While I love to look at nice machines in my shop, I would gladly accept some concessions from a vendor for cosmetics (which they will most always ablidge) I'm horrified at the thought I will have to fuss with a new piece of equipment that should be close straight off the crate.

[glenn bradley]

That would be shipping damage, re-shipping and so forth pretty much kill the profit margin on a sale when your tools are priced as low as Grizzly's. There's no way they would want to knowingly send out a machine that would involve a return. It is hard to swallow though when you get a one two punch like this regardless of who is at fault. I don't mind a little extra effort when I can get a green tool for hundreds less than its other-colored twin. Your experience is rare although I'm sure it doesn't feel that way about now. You would think with how hard it is to find a job that these bozos in the freight biz would be more attentive.

[Chris Padilla]

Shipping companies are classic for not caring how they handle things. Check out YouTube for all sorts of FedEx and UPS drivers caught on camera literally tossing boxes around and kicking them.

[Mikail Khan]

I have ordered 8 pieces of stationary equipment from Grizzly. I have a ninth on the way. After they arrive at my freight forwarder in Miami, they are put in a container which is shipped 1500 miles to a bonded warehouse in Trinidad, West Indies. The container is then unstuffed in the warehouse by a handling agent. Thus far all have arrived undamaged.

MK

[Ronald Blue]

I just purchased a new 3 HP dust collector and it arrived unscathed and as expected. I have a beef with the truck service though. Why schedule a delivery and then not show? Thanks SAIA! I will buy again from Grizzly in the future. You don't reveal where you are located but my order only came about 400 miles and was transferred 3 times at terminals. Get a careless lift truck operator and you have damage. I have no doubt Grizzly will do all they can to make it right with you. Even the shipping damage but that's not really on them.

[Scott T Smith]

Drew, I think that you are being very unfair to Grizzly.

I have personally spent several hours in both their Missouri and Pennsylvania warehouses, and did not observe any damage whatsoever on any of the cartons or crates in stock.

It's not reasonable to speak negatively of them for shipping damage that in all probability occurred after the shipment left their warehouse. They have thousands of very satisfied customers and a reputation for caring about their customers.

[James Nugnes]

Companies that ship big heavy stuff to residential addresses have two strikes working against them every time one of those things leaves the warehouse. The freight company employees don't like the things cause they are big and heavy, tough to deal with monsters and they think they can take some abuse cause they are big and heavy, tough to deal with monsters.

Shoving the forklift into the thing like that is pretty darned careless. Would you think that the forklift driver carefully nudged up to the thing with his forks or came whipping around some corner slammin' the forks into the skids? It really does not matter what the supplier is willing to spend on packaging if the carrier is going to be that careless...Just about everything but an Abrams tank loses to the business end of a forklift handled carelessly.

Fedex freight does home freight delivery but I would bet their rates are just way past what Grizzly thinks the customer base will tolerate. Fedex freight costs could easily be higher than the price of the tool you would be buying.

[Mike Heidrick]

You take a risk in ordering any huge tool and getting it delivered. Did you make note of the condition of the box on the manifest? That would put Grizzly in a much better spot to help you. Good luck. You are in the land of maple leaf General tools correct??

[John Coloccia]

Fedex freight does home freight delivery but I would bet their rates are just way past what Grizzly thinks the customer base will tolerate. Fedex freight costs could easily be higher than the price of the tool you would be buying.

FWIW, my experience with Fedex freight is that they are the WORST you could possibly use. Their damage rate was so bad that when stuff was delivered to us from them at work, we would not accept the shipment until it was completely uncrated and examined. Truly pathetic. Honestly, though, I have enough experience with freight that I know they're all pretty lousy. If you're going to ship something via freight service, you'd better have some really good packing and protection or it will likely arrive damaged.

[Jay Jolliffe]

A few yrs ago I ordered a band saw...It came & all looked good..Have to say their crating for a machine that size wasn't great. Unpacked it & found that both door were pushed in until the nuts on the wheels put a quarter size dent in the doors. Took pics sent them to Grizzly & had new doors in a few days...What took the time, which was over a year was the decals that were suppose to be on the doors.....Other than that everything has been fine....

[Jim Riseborough]

I have always picked up the freight at the freight terminal, it saves one more loading and unloading (at a residence) that can bugger up a shipment. I know it seems a right karfuffle to do this, but saves time in the long run.

[James Nugnes]

My home delivery experience with Fedex freight has been good but they have all been just plain old rectangular boxes with goods well protected within...lots of formed foam protecting. Sometimes the box has been on one of those mini-skids. The boxes just happened to be to large/to heavy for regular fedex. That is not likely anything like what some of these large saws are like to ship. I would guess that there is not anywhere near the amount of formed foam protecting. Maybe there isn't any protecting these big saws.

The saw delivery almost seems like it is a contest between the robust nature of the product itself being in the main heavy guage metal and the freight company's propensity to abuse it some, treating it like its big monster stuff.

Fedex freight is not at all inexpensive either.

I like the idea of going to the terminal as long as you have a way to get it back to the house. I would bet the freight company even handles it better getting the saw out to their dock for you. They probably don't want to just have the thing take a dive off the dock right in front of the customer.

[Chuck Saunders]

If you ever visit a freight depot and see the forklift drivers shifting freight you will no longer wonder how things get damaged. Envision a combination of Indy 500, bumper cars and jousting. I think that Grizz crates their machines fine for the container ride over, but a little light for the LTL truck ride. Luckily I can pick up at Grizzly and the machines are pristine at their dock.

[Phil Thien]

If you ever visit a freight depot and see the forklift drivers shifting freight you will no longer wonder how things get damaged. Envision a combination of Indy 500, bumper cars and jousting.

+100. The carelessness I've seen demonstrated by lift drivers in many facilities is really something to behold.

I've watched as guys drove their forks right into merchandise in a frantic effort to finish loading a truck, so they could be done and then go smoke a cigarette.

[Harold Burrell]

My intimate experience with shipping companies is so outdated that this post might be immaterial, but...here goes...

Years ago I worked for UPS as a loader at one of their big Chicago hubs. You cannot even imagine how hard they pushed us. Our shifts were only like 3 1/2 hrs long for that reason. I can remember my dock being an outside dock. That is, the 57' trailer that I had to fill was outside. I can remember SUPER cold nights starting my shift bundled up. By the end of my shift I would be down to my T-shirt. We, literally, had foremen walking up and down the docks screaming at us to hurry. We would, at the very least, have to load a complete trailer within our shift...by hand.

You can probably imagine how some of those parcels were treated...

[glenn bradley]

FWIW, my experience with Fedex freight is that they are the WORST you could possibly use. Their damage rate was so bad that when stuff was delivered to us from them at work, we would not accept the shipment until it was completely uncrated and examined. Truly pathetic

An alternate experience; all my large grizzly purchases have come FedEx Freight. On time, call ahead to be sure I'm there, boxes and crates all pristine and dropped right into my shop. Dumb luck I guess. Hope it lasts ;-)

[Carl Beckett]

My wife and I once moved from France to the US. We packed all her dishes, household kick knacks/keepsakes, etc, carefully wrapping/boxing them. These were placed on pallets and shrink wrapped. When we went to pickup at the dock in Boston, everything was destroyed. (ok... Not everything, but a lot). In one case someone had skewered a forklift right through the center of it, cutting through 3/4 boxes in the process. I learned dishes don't really have a chance against a forklift skewering. Turns out machines don't either.

[Cary Falk]

My intimate experience with shipping companies is so outdated that this post might be immaterial, but...here goes...

Years ago I worked for UPS as a loader at one of their big Chicago hubs. You cannot even imagine how hard they pushed us. Our shifts were only like 3 1/2 hrs long for that reason. I can remember my dock being an outside dock. That is, the 57' trailer that I had to fill was outside. I can remember SUPER cold nights starting my shift bundled up. By the end of my shift I would be down to my T-shirt. We, literally, had foremen walking up and down the docks screaming at us to hurry. We would, at the very least, have to load a complete trailer within our shift...by hand.

You can probably imagine how some of those parcels were treated...

This mirrors my experience about 20 years ago when I worked as an unloader for UPS at the Kansas City hub. We were required to unload 3500 packages an hour whether they were a few ounces or 70 lbs. Supervisors standing at the back of the truck counting packages with a stop watch. I would come home soaked in sweat from my 4 hour shift starting at 11pm. My once white sox were black with dirt and sweat. Trucks were loaded in what you called walls. You build a wall of packages from floor to ceiling then you step back and build another, and another till you reached the doors. Some people would put large tvs on the top of the wall. They would come crashing down while you were working on the wall before it. I am amazed at any box that is delivered that is not smashed.

I pick my Grizzly tools at the freight station. More convient for me and on less time for the freight company to put a fork through it.,

[Val Kosmider]

Let me offer a couple of opinions on this subject:

First, if i am a seller of heavy tools, and i know that my buyers are going to expect them to be shipped, i would endeavor to ensure that my packaging is rock solid. What does it cost in the overall scheme of things to put a planer in a wood frame and mount it on a skid? If 'delivery' is part of the deal, i expect that things are going to arrive uninjured, unblemished, and in perfect working order.

And second, i go out of my way to do business with my local tool supplier. Whether it be Woodcraft, or a local/local supplier, i try to give them the big stuff as well as the little odds and ends on which they make pennies. They are happy to keep LOTS of stuff in inventory for when i come along looking for that odd little this, or that. As a reward, they get the big stuff too--even though i know i might pay a few percent more than i could order stuff directly from the manufacturer.

And when i have a problem, they are there for me. My machines arrive in tip top shape. There are NO shipping issues. If something isn't right, i deal with the local supplier, and what he does with Grizz or General or Jess Em, or whomever, is his issue. He has way more leverage with them than do i.

It's just a thought which differs from the various ideas presented here. I pay more, but i cut out a LOT of the aggravation--and i think we would all agree that there is nothing worse than spending big for a new machine, and then not having it perform correctly right out of the box, whether it be a manufacturing defect, or especially a shipping issue.

[David Helm]

Hey, Grizzly is my local supplier. When I bought my table saw from them, I had a local shipper bring it because it was way to big and heavy for my little pickup. The local guy, for a small fee, brought it out, unloaded it (with my help), unpacked it (wood shipping crate) and hauled off the remains. This guy is generally who delivers Grizzly big stuff locally. Otherwise, I buy directly from the show room and cart home myself. I have nothing but good to say about Grizzly.

[James Nugnes]

An alternate experience; all my large grizzly purchases have come FedEx Freight. On time, call ahead to be sure I'm there, boxes and crates all pristine and dropped right into my shop. Dumb luck I guess. Hope it lasts ;-)

One thing interesting here is that nobody else has mentioned Fedex Freight as a carrier doing some of the Grizzly shipping. Did you request Fedex Freight? They are about the only freight carrier I know of that has actually built a business out of freight to residential delivery addresses. As such I am not surprised at the comment that the driver dropped the goods in your shop, not expecting you to get the stuff from the truck to the shop. So did you in fact request Fedex Freight? How was the cost comparison as I thought that might be a killer given the size of some of these tools and my experience with Fedex Freight costs. I have seen some 4 figure bills from them. Then again if you were able to select them for a Grizzly delivery, maybe Grizzly has a deal with them that cuts into the price.


And second, i go out of my way to do business with my local tool supplier. Whether it be Woodcraft, or a local/local supplier, i try to give them the big stuff as well as the little odds and ends on which they make pennies. They are happy to keep LOTS of stuff in inventory for when i come along looking for that odd little this, or that. As a reward, they get the big stuff too--even though i know i might pay a few percent more than i could order stuff directly from the manufacturer.

Also I was wondering when somebody would make a comment about supporting a local dealer for this sort of product. I guess what would surprise me is how often the local brick and mortar had any inventory. Then again, maybe it does not matter. If much of the shipping risk takes place between the supplier and the brick and mortar retailer maybe it is worth it anyway.

[Phillip Dejardin]

No matter how you slice it, the costs are ultimately transferred to the consumer. Grizzly doesn't eat the costs of shipping damages or shoddy manufacturing from China or any other feature of low-cost manufacturing. We eat those costs. It took me a long time to come around to the idea that real value doesn't mean finding bargains. It means the exact opposite.

It might take me longer than most to get the tools I want and need, but I'm never disappointed with what I get or how I got it. I prefer paying the higher prices now and getting the quality and peace of mind that comes along with it rather than paying the equivalent chasing bargains over the long run, never getting much of anything of real value in return.

Most of us are probably familiar with Wilber Pan's YouTube video, "Buying a smoothing plane," which expresses this point better than anything I've ever come across. If you've never seen it, look it up.

I know, this will get me in trouble...

[Harry Hagan]

Let me offer a couple of opinions on this subject:

First, if i am a seller of heavy tools, and i know that my buyers are going to expect them to be shipped, i would endeavor to ensure that my packaging is rock solid. What does it cost in the overall scheme of things to put a planer in a wood frame and mount it on a skid? If 'delivery' is part of the deal, i expect that things are going to arrive uninjured, unblemished, and in perfect working order.

And second, i go out of my way to do business with my local tool supplier. Whether it be Woodcraft, or a local/local supplier, i try to give them the big stuff as well as the little odds and ends on which they make pennies. They are happy to keep LOTS of stuff in inventory for when i come along looking for that odd little this, or that. As a reward, they get the big stuff too--even though i know i might pay a few percent more than i could order stuff directly from the manufacturer.

And when i have a problem, they are there for me. My machines arrive in tip top shape. There are NO shipping issues. If something isn't right, i deal with the local supplier, and what he does with Grizz or General or Jess Em, or whomever, is his issue. He has way more leverage with them than do i.

It's just a thought which differs from the various ideas presented here. I pay more, but i cut out a LOT of the aggravation--and i think we would all agree that there is nothing worse than spending big for a new machine, and then not having it perform correctly right out of the box, whether it be a manufacturing defect, or especially a shipping issue.


I’ve tried buying from the local Woodcraft but unfortunately, they aren’t service or customer oriented.

One day I brought in my retirement Wish List and told them I’d purchase it all from them if they’d give me a good deal on some Powermatic equipment and a few Jet items: Cabinet Saw with extension table, 12" Jointer, 15" Planer, Disc & Belt Sander, Drum sander, Drill Press, Dust Collector, Band Saw, etc. When the paper work was being completed I told them I could take delivery the next week when the out-of-stock items would be available.

Their response was, “We don’t deliver.” They also stated that I should have plenty of help when I picked the equipment up because, “We’ll lift it up on a forklift but we won’t help put it in the truck.” I said, “I’ll spread the word.”

Amazon sold me the exact same equipment for $1,700 less and had it delivered for free inside my garage!

A couple of years later I was reminded of my earlier experience when the owner (I found out later) very rudely told me to get out of the stock room after a salesman had asked me to accompany him there to show me what they had in inventory. That little hissy fit cost him a $3,700 Festool sale and saved me $222 in sales tax.

Occasionally I’ll buy from Woodcraft, but online only.

[Drew Watson]

I have had a few e-mails from Grizzly so far and I have sent pictures of the damage ( found more cracked and chipped paint today under the gear case cover) It looks like the paint issue is either application of the paint in the heat booth or bad prep or maybe a bad batch of paint. Anyways they are aware of this issue now. the replacement parts for the broken parts are being shipped out to me. Just a pain that I have to do a major repair on a new piece of machinery but it beats the crap shoot of sending it back again for a third time to see something else happen. Pretty much have had to accept what it is I guess, but it will sure make me think twice again about ordering something from Grizzly. I mean they have been very helpful in getting this order fixed and I am just lucky to be off work right now to be able to deal with this. It really isn't worth the extra aggravation or my time on ordering things that show up in this condition. I now have to arrange my time to repair the new machine too. Of course nothing has been said about the paint issue. I am sure that some might say that I am making a lot in regards to a bit of cracked paint but I paid full price for this and didn't get it a reduced price due to this defect.

[Matt Meiser]

I just can't get over the fact that you have shipping damage bad enough to break cast iron, but the paint is what you are worried about.

I just unpacked my Sawstop last night. They do a pretty incredible job packing it, but one dealer told me they have still received two with shipping damage. I've received a number of machines by truck over the years, at least 1/2 of which had packaging damage bad enough to make my heart skip a beat when I saw them the first time. I've gotten lucky though that I've never had any damage beyond a scratch or two. Not everyone gets that lucky but of course most of the time we only hear about the ones that are.

And by the way, picking things up doesn't always guarantee a pain free experience. I just got my truck back Friday from having the tailgate repaired and repainted after a pallet/tailgate incident at The Tile Shop. They were good about covering it (despite the fact that the bulk of this went down the week of Sandy) but it still took a good bit of my time getting estimates, etc. Damage was almost $500 because they "just" had to repair and repaint. Luckily for me it worked out to get it repaired while I was out of town so I wasn't down a vehicle. If I had needed a rental and/or if replacement of the tailgate would have been required it would have been a LOT higher.

[Keith Outten]

It really is senseless to blame a tool manufacturer or distributor for shipping damage. I honestly doubt that any company that sells tools, machines or anything else for that matter isn't seriously concerned about the terrible service that everyone is receiving from the trucking and shipping industry. Most here have tales to tell about how some machine they purchased was damaged or destroyed somewhere along the shipping route, believe me I have several to tell myself.

My last acquisition was a very expensive laser engraver, it was delivered by FedEx stuffed in the back of a regular van. They had to remove the skids on the bottom of the crate because the crate was too tall for the van. There was no consideration as to how the heck I was going to get underneath the crate to lift it up and then slide it out of the van, they just wanted to get the van in my driveway and they didn't seem to be concerned about the condition of my very expensive machine. Fortunately I own a Tractor with a set of forks for my loader and with the help of the driver and a couple of my crow bars we were able to get the crate onto the forks. Again i was fortunate that the machine was not damaged considering how rough the crate was handled. There was evidence of damage to the corner of the crate, probably from a set of pallet forks pushing on the crate to get it in the van but it could have happened at the terminal.

I didn't blame the laser manufacturer for the condition of the machine when it arrived and I haven't mentioned their name in this post. I did clearly state that FedEx was the company that was responsible for the damage and the terrible handling of my machine. Some of you may be aware of the fact that we no longer offer SawMill Creek coffee cups in our store here. We tried several ways to ship our porcelain coffee cups and used every conceivable type of packaging and we were still experiencing 90% damage so i pulled the plug on an item that was very popular simply because I can't find a shipper who is reliable enough to ship fragile items or heavy machinery for that matter.

Please don't use SawMill Creek to blame shipping damage on any manufacturer.
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[Phillip Dejardin]

It really is senseless to blame a tool manufacturer or distributor for shipping damage. I honestly doubt that any company that sells tools, machines or anything else for that matter isn't seriously concerned about the terrible service that everyone is receiving from the trucking and shipping industry. Most here have tales to tell about how some machine they purchased was damaged or destroyed somewhere along the shipping route, believe me I have several to tell myself.

My last acquisition was a very expensive laser engraver, it was delivered by FedEx stuffed in the back of a regular van. They had to remove the skids on the bottom of the crate because the crate was too tall for the van. There was no consideration as to how the heck I was going to get underneath the crate to lift it up and then slide it out of the van, they just wanted to get the van in my driveway and they didn't seem to be concerned about the condition of my very expensive machine. Fortunately I own a Tractor with a set of forks for my loader and with the help of the driver and a couple of my crow bars we were able to get the crate onto the forks. Again i was fortunate that the machine was not damaged considering how rough the crate was handled. There was evidence of damage to the corner of the crate, probably from a set of pallet forks pushing on the crate to get it in the van but it could have happened at the terminal.

I didn't blame the laser manufacturer for the condition of the machine when it arrived and I haven't mentioned their name in this post. I did clearly state that FedEx was the company that was responsible for the damage and the terrible handling of my machine. Some of you may be aware of the fact that we no longer offer SawMill Creek coffee cups in our store here. We tried several ways to ship our porcelain coffee cups and used every conceivable type of packaging and we were still experiencing 90% damage so i pulled the plug on an item that was very popular simply because I can't find a shipper who is reliable enough to ship fragile items or heavy machinery for that matter.

Please don't use SawMill Creek to blame shipping damage on any manufacturer.
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If I remeber correctly, the OP's major concern and the point of his post was not with the shipping damage per se but with the chipped paint on the first and second thickness planers that Grizzly let out of their warehouse. Some find that concern petty, others like myself find it a legitimate complaint, especially when the same problem shows up on the second item with a promise that it was to be inspected before leaving the warehouse.

I agree with the Mr. Watson. It's not unreasonable to expect a new machine to be without defects. I would think and hope that Grizzly agrees with Mr. Watson as well.

[Keith Outten]

I have ordered a few tools from Grizzly before. Two I picked up and one delivered with no issues. With that experience being good I ordered another tool a thickness planer and the first shipment arrived looking like someone had taken a hammer to the paint with cracks and chips everywhere. It was returned and a second machine sent out with the promise that it would be inspected first. It arrived today with the box looking like it had been run into with a fork lift and bashed around. Upon initial inspection I couldn't see any damage other than a hold down strap had been damaged ( no big deal) it was only when I opened it did I discover two chunks of cast iron sitting under the machine. Turns out the fork lift bars that come with the machine had been driven hard enough to break two small ribs off the cast table. ( an issue but not a big one) then I noticed that the wheel for moving it had been damaged by the fork lift (the initial damage on the box) Still not a huge deal as that can be replaced and fixed. Now for the big one the paint is again cracked in certain places. this was the reason that it was sent back and suppose to have been inspected before shipping.

Phillip,

You may notice that although Drew's first problem was just paint his post quickly went into the details of the shipping damage to his replacement machine.
I can certainly understand that some are really concerned about paint, fit and finish of their machines but it is important to put things into perspective concerning the difference between a discontinuity and a defect. Damage caused by a shipping company should be in a thread that identifies the appropriate vendor, this thread originally was titled "careful ordering Grizzly tools". Although Grizzly is responsible for the paint problem they don't deserve to be bashed for the sins of a shipping company.

Understand that I don't mean to point a finger at Drew specifically but this happens all to often here and at other online communities and I think we would be much better off if we were more accurate when reporting problems.
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[Phillip Dejardin]

Phillip,

You may notice that although Drew's first problem was just paint his post quickly went into the details of the shipping damage to his replacement machine.
I can certainly understand that some are really concerned about paint, fit and finish of their machines.
.

And please note the crucial part of his post:


( an issue but not a big one) then I noticed that the wheel for moving it had been damaged by the fork lift (the initial damage on the box) Still not a huge deal as that can be replaced and fixed. Now for the big one the paint is again cracked in certain places. this was the reason that it was sent back and suppose to have been inspected before shipping.

Again, Mr. Watson's issue from the beginning and with his follow-up post in this thread was primarily paint chipping not shipping issues. The shipping focus evolved with others who've responded to this thread. He is most certainly not bashing Grizzly "for the sins of a shipping company."

[Keith Outten]

Phillip,

You are so right, however the majority of the followup posts have concentrated on the damage to Drew's machine so the direction this thread has taken is way off the topic of a simple paint problem. Everyone here has been concentrating on the damage to his machine that wasn't caused by Grizzly which is why I removed their company name from the title of this thread.
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[Phillip Dejardin]

Thank you, Keith. And for the record, I find nothing inaccurate with either of Mr. Watson's posts in this thread.

Note: Keith, you've changed your posts #34 and #36 so many times now that I can't respond fast enough to keep current, e.g., you've deleted your remark warning about the lack of accuracy in reporting such incidents, etc.

[Glenn Vaughn]

There seems to be a tendency to place the blame on the vendor for shipping damage despite the handling being out of the vendowa control. Every shipping company has employees who are somewhat careless with packages. I have received several deliveries from SAIA with no problem. However one delivery by them was an example of careless handling. I had ordered $800 of 4' X 16' polycarbonate sheets from Florida. The sheets came packed as a roll in a long box. When the driver opened the back of the truck, I could see a large back-how bucket sitting on top of the box (which was crushed pretty flat - luckily none of the sheets cracked. The mishandling was the local delivery drivers fault. Now I get nervous when I see SAIA on tracking.

Most companies are pretty careful in handling. I had a fairly delicate 5' carved wooden statue shipped from Fiji a few years ago with no problems. It came via DHL air to Los Angles and then 3 different freight companis to rural colorado. The packing box was unmarked and he contents in pristine condition.

[Keith Outten]

Phillip,

Sorry about the number of edits. I am multitasking today working on several issues simultaneously and expecting a telecom meeting at any moment. Behind the scenes the view of The Creek is a bit different than from your vantage point and one thing I am always concerned with is the legal challenges that may come at us from any number of sources. We do receive legal requests and sometimes a summons from a Judge with directives that require us to provide copies of posts, threads and other information. As far as I know my track record is pretty good over the last ten years keeping the peace and protecting those who have made serious errors in judgement here.

I don't just read a post like others do, my job here is a bit different than most. We also have Advertisers who are a big part of the equation and like it or not I have to look after their interests as well as our Members.
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[Keith Outten]

Some eye candy for you:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/anniversary.html
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[Drew Watson]

Hey I don't blame Grizzly for the shipping damage that was UPS or maybe it could have been Grizzly ( I don't think so but I don't know) no point in pointing fingers in that area. The fact is it arrived damaged and grizzly is doing what they can to make me happy. Like I said the paint is an issue because it was sent back for the same issue and arrived with the assurance that the issue didn't exist on this machine. Ok so much for that there is no point in rehashing that one again. Received an e-mail today, The replacement foot is on the way. The cast base unit will not be in till the end of Feb and the offer of a gift certificate for the store for the paint damage and touch up paint is acceptable to me.

I was asked a question in the e-mail "Do you think you'll be able to safely use your machine until we can get you that replacement base?" I mean this is the first machine of this type I have received from Grizzly and it might operate just fine or it may not. How am I suppose to now these things on a new machine? My reply was for her was to ask her team and to let me know if it was safe to operate. I think a valid question to ask as this is their machine and they know more about how it operates that I do.

[Roger Rayburn]

Both instances sound like shipping damage to me. My experiences with Grizzly have been, without exception, positive. The one instance I had to file a claim (for a dented rail on a ts fence, I noted a "torn box" on the shipping acceptance document. The next day I called Grizzly to ask about what the next step needed to be. The only question I was asked (other than order number, etc.) was whether or not I had made a notation on the documentation for the trucker. Two days later UPS delivered a new rail to my house. I have had a couple other dealings with them and I can only say that when I hang up the phone I am impressed and satisfied all over again. I think freight companies really do want to perform and get really, really good reviews. I must say, however, that the driver who delivered my ts scared me half to death. I live on a pretty steep hill and he parked facing up hill. When he rolled the pallet onto the lift gate and started to lower the lift I was absolutely convinced it was going to tip off. It didn't but it rocked all the way down. I knew it was top heavy and he knew it was top heavy. I think it was late in the day and he was in a hurry to get going.

[Jim Andrew]

Talked to a truck driver this morning, who delivered a machine to me once. Told him about this thread, and he said that in the trucking business where they load partial loads, for delivery to customers like me, that most of these crates go through about a dozen docks before being delivered to the customer. He said at some of the large docks, he wonders how ANY of the crates get worked without damage. Also mentioned that the SAIA dock in Wichita has about 300 doors, and it is crazy there. He could only guess at the number of forklifts working at one time.

[Drew Watson]

Yea I know Jim I have a forklift ticket too and I have had some mishaps with shifting loads that have slipped off the forks but to run the forks through the box is just being careless. Who did it? no idea. Don't really care as there is nothing that I can do about that. It wasn't really damaged like having forks through the metal but just minor damage and nothing that can't be fixed. The paint issue was a bit upsetting but that was straightened out to my satisfaction. Parts are ordered or on the way compensation is on the way for the paint damage and Grizzly is now aware of a problem that they need to address. Got a message from the techs that it was safe to fire it up so after an extensive going over setting the machine up I fired it up today and it purred to life. Wobbles a bit with the missing leveling foot and I ran a chunk of wood through so it cuts nice and clean. Now just to get the parts in and installed and it will be like brand new undamaged again. Or at least by the end of Feb.