Bench grinder - PC vs. new Delta

[Victor Robinson]

Considering the Porter-cable PCG575 ($120, Lowes) and the newly released Delta 23-199 ($165). They look identical except for the color and logo. Only other difference I can tell is that the warranty on the Delta is 5yr and the PC standard warranty is 3 yr. If I believed the parts are slightly higher quality on the Delta, I might be willing to pay the extra (and for the additional warranty).

Does anyone know other differences between these two variable speed 8" grinders?

[Victor Robinson]

Answering my own question, at least in part...the wheel changes on the Delta are tool-less. Not sure how often I'll be changing wheels though.

[Bob Bergstrom]

I have had the delta for about 7 years. I have done a lot of sharpening on it without problems. I've used both high and low settings. I now run two CBN wheels on it. I'm not a big Delta fan anymore but it has worked well. D-Way use one on their demo video. The price difference may be in the quality of the electronics. I've nott used the Porter Cable.

[allen thunem]

if memory serves wasnt porter cable taken over by delta at one point in time or visa versa

[Victor Robinson]

I have had the delta for about 7 years. I have done a lot of sharpening on it without problems. I've used both high and low settings. I now run two CBN wheels on it. I'm not a big Delta fan anymore but it has worked well. D-Way use one on their demo video. The price difference may be in the quality of the electronics. I've nott used the Porter Cable.

Thanks Bob. I agree - if there's a difference other than warranty and toolless wheel change, it might be in the electronics. The 23-199 is a new version though - I believe the older Delta grinders like yours went down to 1725 rpm. The new one only goes down to 2000, identical to the Porter-Cable.

[Victor Robinson]

if memory serves wasnt porter cable taken over by delta at one point in time or visa versa

Yes, exactly, though now Delta is owned by an Asian company. I'm not sure if that includes the Porter-Cable part of the business. That all being said, the two grinders seem identical, which is why I'm trying to ascertain if there's a real difference. 2 more years of warranty on a variable speed device and the toolless wheel change might be enough to sway me.

[mickey cassiba]

Alas, Porter-Cable still languishes under the Stanley-Black and Decker yoke. Delta made the break. The label history is convoluted, but we were all consolidated by Pentair as the 'Tool Group', and sold to B&D, and then gobbled up by Stanley. The plant that once made Porter Cable tools now makes DeWalt, B&D, and Porter Cable parts that are trucked to Mexico , where they are all assembled in a big building in Reynossa and...well you get the idea. A lot of the PC tools are sourced to the Western edge of the Pacific Rim. Delta, while produced in the US, is indeed an Asian owned company. Clear as mud????

[Victor Robinson]

Alas, Porter-Cable still languishes under the Stanley-Black and Decker yoke. Delta made the break. The label history is convoluted, but we were all consolidated by Pentair as the 'Tool Group', and sold to B&D, and then gobbled up by Stanley. The plant that once made Porter Cable tools now makes DeWalt, B&D, and Porter Cable parts that are trucked to Mexico , where they are all assembled in a big building in Reynossa and...well you get the idea. A lot of the PC tools are sourced to the Western edge of the Pacific Rim. Delta, while produced in the US, is indeed an Asian owned company. Clear as mud????

Great history lesson, thanks Mickey. So it's only Delta that has completely split off from the conglomerate.

That being said, there's still evidence of its former siblings. The two grinders in question seem to share more than just a few parts. I like that Delta is now manufactured in the US but is that really true for all of its products?

[Thom Sturgill]

If I understand correctly, the new Delta did not get rights to all of the machines the old Delta produced. Some are now being produced with the PC label. Some, like the grinders are being produced with minor changes, by both. For example, the new Delta produces a steel frame bandsaw while PC produces a cast iron model that appears identical to the old Delta.

[Glen Koopmans]

I own a Delta Model GR450 (8" variable speed). I returned two and am on my third. They all vibrated so much I was burning out light bulbs each time I used it. The safety shields are cheap and do not stay in place. In my opinion the tool less wheel change is not a great feature as it can be difficult to get a wheel off at times. Runout on the shaft is what I determined as the cause of much of the vibration. My hope is to buy a Baldor in the future.

My question would be, who has a new grinder they can recommend? Is it 6 or 8"?

[allen thunem]

glen check out the grizzly grinders half the price of baldors but it aint a baldor for sure
seem like hefty machines. just my .02 cents worth

[Paul Saffold]

Glen, were the bearings bad in the grinders you returned, or were the wheels out of balance? Wheels are frequently out of balance, out of round or the plastic bushings are allowing slop. All are correctable. Try running the grinder without wheels to see how smooth it is capable of running. Clamping or bolting it to it's support (bench or stand) will help dampen vibration.
Paul

Oops, I just re-read your post and see you checked the run-out and determined it was the source of your problem.
Paul

[Justin Stephen]

If I understand correctly, the new Delta did not get rights to all of the machines the old Delta produced. Some are now being produced with the PC label. Some, like the grinders are being produced with minor changes, by both. For example, the new Delta produces a steel frame bandsaw while PC produces a cast iron model that appears identical to the old Delta.

While I cannot personally vouch for what you said, it does appear that older Delta products are still being serviced by DeWalt/PC/B&D service centers.

[Mike Wilkins]

A recent Fine Woodworking test report gave the nod to the Porter-Cable machine, with the exception of the funky drill bit sharpening notch on the left tool rest. With the addition of a Wolverine sharpening attachment, you would have a really nice sharpening set-up.

[Jon Nuckles]

The Woodcraft 8" grinder has served me well for a couple of years, and can sometimes be had for $99, I believe. Unlike most grinders (don't know about the PC and Delta), it comes with white wheels that do a decent job on turning tools. I upgraded to a Norton on one side a year ago and just added a brand new CBN on the other. The CBN is so smooth it is hard to believe.

[Thom Sturgill]

I read several years ago on a vendor site (I don't remember which one, but was NOT turning specific, but catered to the hand tool wood worker.) that he had tested a large number of grinders from various manufacturers and found that they ALL ran true. On the other hand, there was a lot of problems with wheels not being true. If you use matrix wheels be aware that commercial varieties are not trued before being shipped whereas industrial grade wheels are ($$$). Also the plastic inserts sold with the wheels are pure junk. Thow them away and get a drill guide insert, or better yet get a CBN wheel with a proper metal insert to fit your grinder.

If you go with the CBN wheels, then it is not necessary to buy a slow speed or variable speed grinder according to Dave at D-Way. So I suggest buy the cheaper single speed grinder and spend the extra on a CBN wheel and adapter.

[Justin Stephen]

I read several years ago on a vendor site (I don't remember which one, but was NOT turning specific, but catered to the hand tool wood worker.) that he had tested a large number of grinders from various manufacturers and found that they ALL ran true.

Kind of my anecdotal experience as well. Grinders just seem to be fairly true and reliable, almost regardles of their price point. If I were buying an 8" grinder today, I think I would just buy the Woodcraft model that Jon mentioned. It is selling for $124.99 at the moment, but the fact that it comes with at least one immediately useful 120-grit white wheel is a bonus. My bench grinder, like many/most that originate at a hardware store, came with a couple of course "general purpose" wheels much better suited for sharpening a lawn mower blade than a HSS gouge and had to be replaced (at not insignificant expense).

[Jamie Donaldson]

The Woodcraft 8" low speed grinder is still a hard to beat bargain for most turners. The balancing of a wheel is often required to make them really purrrrrrrrr, but the motors are seldom the problem when a grinder straight out of the box doesn't want to sit still on a flat surface! With better quality replacement wheels they are a once in a turning lifetime buy for most amateur turners.

[Noah Barfield]

The Woodcraft 8" grinder has served me well for a couple of years, and can sometimes be had for $99, I believe. Unlike most grinders (don't know about the PC and Delta), it comes with white wheels that do a decent job on turning tools. I upgraded to a Norton on one side a year ago and just added a brand new CBN on the other. The CBN is so smooth it is hard to believe.

Jon, I also have the Woodcraft 8" with a D-Way CBN on one wheel. However, I have found that the shaft of the Woodcraft grinder is too short to fully accommodate the CBN wheel. In other words, the nut only threads on about 3/4 of the way on the CBN side. Has this been your experience too?

Noah

[Jon Nuckles]

Noah, I did not notice that when I set it up, but I will look when I get to the shop today. Jon

[Ted Calver]

Noah, Did you strip everything off the shaft before installing the CBN? My woodcraft is an older dual speed one and there is plenty of shaft for the CBN's.

[Victor Robinson]

I ended up going with the Delta. What can I say, I'm a sucker for variable speed. I figured I might have other grinding operations (apart from turning tools) for which a higher speed might be handy.

At first I scoffed at the CBN wheels. Then I started thinking harder about one. I'll already be out over $100 for a new 80, 100, or 120 al. ox. wheel and potentially the Oneway balancer.

Boy oh boy, you guys were right about this being the vortex.

[Noah Barfield]

Noah, Did you strip everything off the shaft before installing the CBN? My woodcraft is an older dual speed one and there is plenty of shaft for the CBN's.

Hi Ted,

Yes, I stripped off the included wheel and bushing. The bushing, washer, and nut provided with the CBN wheel take up a fair amount of shaft space.

Noah

[Jon Nuckles]

Noah, I checked my Woodcraft grinder and about an eighth of an inch of the shaft sticks out beyond the nut with the CBN wheel. Mine is 2-3 years old.

[Noah Barfield]

Jon, I bought mine last year. I wonder if the design has changed? I'll take another look at the set up tonight.

[Jon Nuckles]

I did have to lightly sand the spindle, as Dave suggested in the instructions, to get the bushing to go on all the way. Any chance yours got stuck short?

[Noah Barfield]

Nope. It's all the way against the end of the shaft. I took it all apart last night just to make sure. The CBN bushing is right up against the end of the shaft closest to the motor housing. At best, the nut is 2/3 of the way threaded onto the shaft once the bushing, wheel, and washer are in place.

[Frederick Ieppert]

I don't think that the Woodcraft grinder is available now, correct me if I'm wrong.