new first band saw Grizzly disaster

[Dennis Zoucha]

Wondered if anyone has seen this before. Got my first band saw from Grizzly 2 weeks ago, G0555LX 14". It ran for 5 minutes total before the upper wheel bearing went out. They sent me a new set of bearings, shaft, shaft bracket. It lasted less then 5 minutes this time. I noticed that when you tighten the wheel shaft nut it pushes on the inner bearing race creating side load. Any side load on a roller bearing is bad I am sure. If I go more then finger tight it makes the wheel start to drag. If l leave it finger tight the nut come loose. It is not a self locking nut, nor caste nut, nothing to hold the nut tight except friction between inner race. I have not been around another band saw I don't know how that nut is held in place if not friction. It would have to have a sleeve between the outer and inner inside races in order to work correctly in my opinion. But it shows nothing like that in the parts break down. Grizzly customer service is very friendly but not sure how familiar they are with each and every machine. I hate to have this end up sending me a new machine, I have a lot of time invested putting this one together and setting up this one. I know there must not be wide spread problems with this, Grizzly acts like they have no idea what is happening and there is a ton of this exact machine out there.

Thanks for reading

[Brian Kincaid]

It sounds like the upper wheel does not mate well to the bearings. Did you discuss options for an upper wheel replacement (along with another set of bearings)?
-Brian

[Gus Dundon]

I don't have any idea how to fix the issue you have in your bandsaw. I hope everything will be fine
with your bandsaw and your business with Grizzly.

[glenn bradley]

There are hundreds, if not thousands of folks on the forums that use and love that saw. It really sounds like something is missing from the assembly. Are all the parts present as shown in the exploded diagram of your manual? Even if they are, I would walk through the assembly with Griz tech support on the line. On the rare occasions I have needed tech support they have been top notch with the exception of the motor guys. They seem more forklift-fix than diagnostically oriented. Please keep us updated.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Dennis
Have you looked at your parts list, and checked it against your upper wheel assemble. Sound like you could be missing a part or two. Keep us posted on your progress. Tom

[Dan Hintz]

Check what others have said first, obviously, but just in case you weren't aware, there's no need to bear down on the nut... a light snugness is plenty. The nut should be reverse-threaded, so in operation the nut should be self-tightening.

When I disassembled my Jet to make it lighter for transport, I put it back together and really snugged up the nut. A month of use and I started getting a nasty squeal from the upper bearing. My guess is I was too ham-fisted and friction eventually took its toll. I had to find some new bearings, pick up a bearing puller from Harbor Freight, and create a bearing press with some threaded rod, washers, and nut. Nothing complicated, but it sure slowed me down.

[Dennis Zoucha]

Parts list seems to be correct, went over it with Grizzly tech staff a few times also. I am a little worried since the un-tension handle was missing when I got it and one of the bolts that holds the uppper wheel shaft trunnion tight was laying in bottom of box. It was there because when they put the trunnion into the sliding housing they got the pivot pins in backward so that the trunnion bolts were only able to penetrate a few threads cause them to strip. They sent me a new trunion, bolts, lever, sliding housing and wheel bearings. The trunnion is a little different then the original, there is no roll pin hole to hold shaft into it. (they are sending another). These minor things dont bother me but I would like to know the reason for bearing life of a couple of minutes of both factory installed and the ones I installed. I am sure they will get it worked out, they are just baffled. I thought maybe someone else has seen this. If the new parts they are sending my don't work they said they will send a complete unit. So I can't complain. Thanks for the help. I have dealt with 4 different Grizzly techs so far, I am sure someone will get it figured out.

[Ronald Blue]

My first thought was there was a spacer missing between the bearings but none is shown in the parts break down. Just a snap ring. I am sure they will get you squared away even if it means a new saw.

[Myk Rian]

My first thought was there was a spacer missing between the bearings but none is shown in the parts break down. Just a snap ring. I am sure they will get you squared away even if it means a new saw.
Where are the snap rings? Inner, or outer races?
My first thought was also that a spacer was missing. Deltas have them.

If the snap rings are holding the outer races, then any nut torque on the bearings will push the inner races toward the inside of the wheels, thus wasting the bearings.

[Richard Coers]

Parts list seems to be correct, went over it with Grizzly tech staff a few times also. I am a little worried since the un-tension handle was missing when I got it and one of the bolts that holds the uppper wheel shaft trunnion tight was laying in bottom of box. It was there because when they put the trunnion into the sliding housing they got the pivot pins in backward so that the trunnion bolts were only able to penetrate a few threads cause them to strip. They sent me a new trunion, bolts, lever, sliding housing and wheel bearings. The trunnion is a little different then the original, there is no roll pin hole to hold shaft into it. (they are sending another). These minor things dont bother me but I would like to know the reason for bearing life of a couple of minutes of both factory installed and the ones I installed. I am sure they will get it worked out, they are just baffled. I thought maybe someone else has seen this. If the new parts they are sending my don't work they said they will send a complete unit. So I can't complain. Thanks for the help. I have dealt with 4 different Grizzly techs so far, I am sure someone will get it figured out.

So about the only original parts you will soon have on this saw is the frame! I say get a new saw. It's what they like to call on this forum, "A Lemon"! I suspect that top wheel is not right. Too wide in the hub so that the bearings over tighten. I had a bigger machine that had the worst wheels I have ever seen. Not even enough material to be able to machine them all around. Sent it back and asked for money back. So their quality control isn't perfect, ask for a new machine. You've ridden this dead horse too long already!

[Dennis Zoucha]

Myk you are exactly right, the snap rings are on the outer race. Any pressure one inner race via the retaining nut wastes the bearing. Maybe it's as simple as it should have a locknut instead of a regular nut and I should just tighten enough to remove play and let locknut hold it in place. Grizzly cannot give me a torque setting to tighten this nut. But to me any tightness will ruin the bearing for a third time. Larry, the latest tech from Grizzly was to be investigating the problem and was to call me back but hasn't yet. T

[Ronald Blue]

Normally in a double bearing setup like this there would be a spacer that the inner race tightens against. As Myk says the side pressure ruins the bearing. A standard ball bearing doesn't withstand much side load pressure without damage.

[James Nugnes]

If it were me at Grizzly at this point I would want to see the saw. Sounds like you had identified some assembly screw ups that might be minor as you described it but might be indicative of a rotten assembly job at the factory.

No telling where this stuff is made any longer nor who is making it nor who is supervising it. Can't even tell who is creating the work instructions now that the world has fallen in love with ODM's.

In another thread I was asking about the guide shaft of a Rikon band saw. I eventually called Rikon and the tech support guy did not seem to understand that the diameter of that shaft had to be on one of the detail drawings for the saw. Yet he seemed entirely oblivious to the whole idea that Rikon HAD to have this information someplace.

Both of these are good companies. It is getting to be a crazy world.

[Rick Potter]

Why are you fooling with it? I am sure if you ask, Grizzly will replace it with a new saw. After all, that's what you paid for.

Rick Potter

[Dennis Zoucha]

Yes you folks are probably correct in that I need to get an entire saw. It was just that the whole be home when the truck came, unload, unpack, assemble, clean anti rust agent crap, set up blade, table etc. wasn't that fun that I want to do it again if a simple fix was there. I will let you know what happens. Thanks so much. Still bugs me though how they plan on keeping bearing tight with no support in between inner bearing races, I guess I will find out how if they send me a new machine. Right now they are sending me the same old stuff I have already tried, but they cant answer the question as to how tight to tighten the nut on the main upper shaft should be. Thanks again.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

No telling where this stuff is made any longer nor who is making it nor who is supervising it. Can't even tell who is creating the work instructions now that the world has fallen in love with ODM's.



James, what is an ODM?

[James Nugnes]

An ODM works to a set of performance requirements instead of working to a hard spec. So for example instead of the company that will brand the product requesting that a contract manufacturer build a product to a set of detailed drawings, they build their request to the chosen ODM around performance parameters that they believe to be attractive to their customers. The ODM is responsible for designing the product so that it will meet those performance parameters. The ODM builds the detailed drawings and the work instructions. He often picks the contract manufacturer (if he is not going to act in that capacity himself) and manages the relationships with the contract manufacturer and the parts vendors.

At its least common denominator is mates a company with design and often contract manufacturing capabilities with a company that has market presence and market knowledge that may be willing to trade control of the product design for the opportunity to trim back their Engineering Dept assets or utilize the Engineering assets it has in other areas. Myself I have never been keen on the idea but give some companies the opportunity to trim anything and they are tickled pink.

That is an oversimplification of the concept but in essence, it takes the design task off the hands of the company that will brand the product. It also takes a good deal of control away. So there is a price to pay.

For example, when a guy representing himself as tech support for a company balks at the idea that he should just have a detailed drawing available to him for a component of a product said company is carrying under its brand, it suggests to me that those detailed drawings are not necessarily just sitting in a file on some computer file managed by their engineering dept. but available to tech support and tech support no longer even recognizes that they are just sitting in an engineering computer program that their Engineering Dept manages.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

James.....so you have explained your theory .....what does the 3 letter acronymn ODM represent?

[James Nugnes]

Oh Gosh...sorry....my bad...."Original Design Manufacturer" = ODM as opposed to CM, Contract Manufacturer or OEM, Original Equipment Manufacturer.

ODM's have become really popular in electronics just as an example. Many of the largest (and even not so large) CM's in electronics have migrated over to being ODM's while still taking jobs as CM's.

[paul cottingham]

Original design manufacturer.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

James,

I retired after 34 years as a field engineer for 2 US OEM companies who produced CT scanners, MR scanners and x-ray equipment. During that time, I also worked as a systems engineer supporting other FEs. Though we designed and manufactured our own equipments, in the field, we seldom had direct access to mechanical drawings with dimensions on them. The reason was the sheer volume of documentation that would be involved. The same was true of charts regarding the states of PLAs etc. When we got involved in a difficult diagnosis situation in a specific area of a system, we often talked with the actual person who designed the thing. He/she would then fax us any additional, component specific information we might need.

In the days of microfiche documentation we carried several small boxes of microfiche documentation. In todays world of DVDs, we still carried several library folders of DVDs.

I doubt that most customers who contact customer support people working for a company have the tools or expertise to properly measure shaft diameters etc. People making erroneous checks, measurements, making misguided assumptions, improper adjustments and improper component replacements are often some of the leading reasons for failure to arrive at a quick resolution.

[Chris Merriam]

I have a 8 year old Jet 14 inch deluxe that has the exact same top wheel set up, just a nut bearing down on the bearing. The manual also has no parts in between the two. I just snugged it up as little as possible to still allow the wheel to rotate freely.

[Myk Rian]

Perhaps a spacer could be cut to fit between the bearings, and over the shaft. Not something you should HAVE to do, but it would certainly rule that out.
A short piece of tubing ought to do it.

[James Nugnes]

Completely agree about having somebody measure on the fly. In the first place neither he she nor you know what end of the tolerance spectrum the part measured might be at nor even what the tolerance is for said part. Plus there is operator error to consider.

I asked in another thread if somebody had the dimension in an earlier post hoping somebody had an instruction manual with the dimension listed there. That was before I found the instruction manual on the supplier's site and discovered that the dimension was not in fact in their instruction manual.

In fact in the recent case that I posted about the tech support person offered to go measure the part and I asked that he please not do that. He was at home base by the way...not in the field. At some point I do think field services folks will have pretty close to complete access to files but they would be limited today by the size of the pipe. Last thing you would want is a field services guy sitting there tapping his feet waiting for a file to download. For now and for the foreseeable future it is going to be bring what you need for the job at hand...or bring as much as you can reasonably carry.....at least IMO.

My company had thousands of end item SKU's and a ridiculous number of component parts. The high volume stuff was basically all being done by CM's. If you called the mother ship (where I was), it did not take longer than 5 minutes, maybe 10, tops for somebody to get to a detailed drawing and read off the measurement. It might be a half day before somebody got the caller the data but the actual work involved in getting to the data was never more than a drill down that took 5-10 minutes.

By the way, in the instance I sighted, the tech services guy did get back on the line with a dimension for me. Clearly they had it there and could get to it. The point that I was trying to make was that the notion that there was a detailed drawing on site that had the dimension was completely foreign to the tech services guy. If that were not the case he would not have offered to measure the part, which we both agree is NOT what you want him to do.

At the end of the call I did suggest to them that the dimension of that shaft would be a good thing to add to the instruction manuals presuming they are not so generic as to make an issue for them. In this particular case a number of the add ons somebody might want to make to that particular product lead you right back to that shaft dimension. Without it you are pretty dependent on marketing materials for the possible add ons. Fortunately not only was the base product being made by a good manufacturer but the add on supplier was also a terrific company...again IMO.

[BradD Strong]

I also bought a Grizzly G0555LX this fall, the new model with new cast iron wheels. I noticed some visible wobble of the upper wheel initially, and couldn't adjust this out with either tracking or the shaft nut tension. This made the blade wander fore and aft about an 1/8". I've used it lightly, but then started to get an intermitant loud clicking sound from the upper wheel. Tried forever to localize the source, until eventually I figured out it came from the outer ball bearing on the upper wheel. (My clue was visible dislocation of the outer ball bearing cover). Called Grizzly, who shipped me a pair of replacement (inner and outer) bearings. I just had a machine shop install them for me (didn't want to try it myself, and end up slightly skewed or something). Anyways, the wobble, clicking, and blade wandering have all resolved after installing last night.

I too noticed early on that tightening the shaft nut noticeably drags the upper wheel rotation. This time I just finger tightened it, and am hoping for the best. Interesting to see I'm not the only one with this problem on this new line of machine.

Brad

[James Nugnes]

Not to beat up Grizzly cause they are really no more or less immune to the realities of today's industrial environment, but I am often amused by how much modification for cost savings suddenly makes something that had been built without much issue for decades a headache. Bandsaws are not exactly rocket science but they do have have a bunch of funky mechanical things going on inside them...almost makes you wonder if it is the kind of thing that defies contemporary cost cutting and manufacturing techniques. I am double amused when I see somebody post a photo of their old as the hills bandsaw that is still just tripping along without an issue or a care in the world.