Best ROS for Dust Control - Festool ETS or Bosch ROS65VS?

[Tom Willoughby]

I was sanding some MDF for a test shelf build last night with my 1/4 sheet Bosch palm sander and was engulfed in dust that made the room hazy despite me using a vacuum with it. It has been a good sander but I want to upgrade to the best dust collection sander that I can since the rest of my tools and shop have relatively good dust collection capabilities.

The two sanders that I am considering are the Festool ETS 150/5 or the Bosch ROS65VS. I would like the Mirka Ceros but it is just too expensive. There are many threads that talk about the vibration reduction with the Bosch ROS65VS but not too much about its dust collection capabilities other than the canister is well deigned, which I wouldn't use since I'll hook up my dust vac. The Festool ETS 150 is well regarded for its dust collection and since I already use a Festool Domino, I could use the same power cord, which would be convenient although I have a DeWalt router that I occasionally use so I'd have to swap plugs for that.

All things being equal, I'd choose the Bosch ROS65VS to save the $80 and buy sand paper with the savings but if its dust collection capabilities are not up to the Festool, I would rather spend that money and ensure that I'm collecting as much dust at the source.

As an aside, I'm planning on going with the Mirka Abranet paper since I'll be starting from scratch (pardon the pun). Anyone not happy with the Abranet sand paper?

Thank you for your help and insight.

Tom

[Jim German]

I use my ETS 150/5 with just a plain old shop-vac all the time and can't even tell that I'm sanding, there is no dust in the air.

[Tom Willoughby]

Thank you Jim. That is exactly what I am looking for... dust free sanding. I should ask you about the 150/5 vs. 150/3. Do you sand up to the finer grits with the 150/5 and get a good finish?

[John Schweikert]

I do have a Mirka 6" Ceros and it rocks. But to help specific to your post, the Abranet sanding discs work extremely well, virtually no build up after extensive sanding even when sanding Shellac. The net mesh to the discs is quite unique and makes dust free sanding with my Fein Turbo II on the lowest speed. The net structure does make 6 hole discs somewhat old tech.

I have other sanders, but I was looking at the Bosch ROS65VS and the equivalent Makita 6". Ultimately, I went with the Mirka. The added value came from their $150+ of free sanding Abranet discs towards the end of 2012. I'd rather have a few nice tools that make the experience better. I don't buy all the woodworking gadgets, just the primary tools that get projects done.

I don't think you can go wrong with either the Bosch or Festool, or even the 6" Makita. All should give dust free sanding with a vac.

[Matt Meiser]

I'd get the 150/3 myself. Or I should say that's what I did. The explanation I've heard is that the 150/5 is really more intended for production environments where some extra speed at the expense of finer finish is warranted. For general use, the 150/3 is more appropriate.

DC wise, I can't imagine doing any better but I've never used the Ceros.

[Greg R Bradley]

The Bosch ROS65 are very new so unlikely to get much response. I did look at them in detail at a Bosch show a few months ago and I own a Festool ETS150/5 and ETS125.

I like Bosch in general and was very happy with an older Bosch 5" ROS that they have since changed and replaced with a very poor substitute. The older Bosch 5" RO was preferable to the Festool when using the supplied dust filter instead of a vacuum. However the replacement ROS20 is junk by comparison.

The new high end sanders from Bosch do not seem to improve on the dust collection system of the previous series, which was OK but not great like Festool's. We are talking about dust collection when hooked up to a variable suction vacuum. Festool has a much better system that flows air out the pad and then pulls the air
back in carrying the dust with it. The simple suction of the others such as Bosch, Dewalt, Makita just don't compare when hooked up to the proper vacuum.

[Sam Murdoch]

The Festool ETS150/3 is a very excellent finish sander - combined with a Festool Vacuum (I don't know about connected to shop vacs) I sand dust free in my shop as well as in the homes of my clients. I am also a huge endorser of the Abranet mesh - a truly superior sanding product for bare wood but especially for sanding finishes.

[Tom Willoughby]

Thank John for the feedback on the Ceros. Every post seems to rave about it and other than the steep price of admission, $495, it seems like an excellent sander in all respects. Maybe I should continue to save and delay the purchase until I can afford the Ceros sander. I'd then have no buyers remorse.

Matt, thank you for the feedback on the 150/5 vs 150/3 performance. I knew that I'd sacrifice some fine scratch performance with the 5 mm stroke but my rationale was that if I am top coating the wood, the finer scratch pattern isn't of much significance. Maybe I should reconsider and go with the Festool 3 mm stroke and work a bit longer at sanding.

Greg, thank you for the dust collection feedback on the Bosch. It sounds as if the Festool has an advantage in the dust collection area, which is a primary consideration for my upgrade.

I've, therefore, narrowed it down to either the Festool ETS 150/3 or 150/5 and the Mirka Ceros, which I would need to save up for but potentially a Peachtree sale would come along again narrowing the price gap for the Ceros.

Thank you all again for your help.

Tom

[Tom Willoughby]

The Festool ETS150/3 is a very excellent finish sander - combined with a Festool Vacuum (I don't know about connected to shop vacs) I sand dust free in my shop as well as in the homes of my clients. I am also a huge endorser of the Abranet mesh - a truly superior sanding product for bare wood but especially for sanding finishes.

I work in a basement workshop without windows so dust collection is a primary consideration for me. Sanding in clients' homes with a dust extractor, which I also have although I called it a vac, is high praise for the Festool's dust collection. Between the Ceros and the ETS 150, I don't think that I can make a wrong decision.

Thanks.
Tom

[Ellen Benkin]

I was an anti-Festool snob for many years because of the prices. I recently tried to find a decent ROS that didn't seem to jerk around and consulted a finishing expert. Her advice was to get the Festool and it would be the last sander I'd ever have to buy. I tried all the models at my local Woodcraft and decided on the 150/3 because it was easily the smoothest one in the store. I also managed to get a Festool mini "dust extractor" (Christmas present). Used together there is no dust and the noise and vibrations are minimal. I'm very happy with these choices except that the methodology of attaching the Festool hose to the Festool tool seems very crude. I guess I'll adapt.

A friend also recommended using Abranet disks, unfortunately not until after I'd invested in Festools (which are amazingly expensive). I'll use the Festool disks and then try the Abranet products.

[Matt Meiser]

I'm not finding that exact model on Bosch's site but the ROS65VC-6 only has a 2mm orbit--actually smaller than the Festool 150/3. It also appears that the Bosch is much heavier and maybe not well suited to single-handed use which the 150/3 does well in my experience. Then again maybe I'm looking at the wrong sander.

I'd try to find someplace where you can test drive each and see what's best for your needs.

[Tom Willoughby]

Ellen, you sound exactly like me in that I don't want to spend more money than I have to but it sometimes pays to cry once with the expensive tool rather than crying each time you use a cheap tool. It took me a long time to come around to purchase the Domino but I'm pleased with it each time I use it.

If it weren't for that darn Ceros sander, I'd know exactly what to do :).

[Matt Meiser]

except that the methodology of attaching the Festool hose to the Festool tool seems very crude. I guess I'll adapt.

Really? I think its actually well thought out. The design of the connector allows the 27mm hose to fit both "big" and "small" tools with the same connector and no adapters. The ribs on the inside of the hose and outside of the "small" tool connector mate with each other to make for a very secure fit. I just wish they'd done the same on the "big" connectors.

[Tom Willoughby]

Matt, I was thinking variable speed when I wrote the model down above (VS). You are correct that the model number is ROS65-VC. I didn't realize that the orbit was only 2 mm. If I remember correctly, one magazine review had the Bosch able to more aggressively remove wood than the Festool ETS 150/3 but the Festool ended up with a finer finish. I'd much prefer a lighter sander with all other things being equal.

I've test driven the ETS 150/3 (or it could have been a 5) and I was very impressed with the lack of vibration. I haven't been able to find the Bosch locally to try out (nor the Ceros) but I've made up my mind to eliminate the Bosch.

[Chris Padilla]

I have the older model of Rotex and the 150/3. I almost ALWAYS grab the 150/3 for my sanding. And yep, it is like you aren't even sanding as there is no dust but the surface just gets smoother and smoother. It almost make sanding a pleasure. :p

I have had zero issues with the hose attachment...works great and easy to move between various hand machines. I do find that I often must hold the hose up otherwise the ribs of the hose hang up on the piece being sanded if I have to reach a bit but it really isn't a big deal.

[Matt Meiser]

I do find that I often must hold the hose up otherwise the ribs of the hose hang up on the piece being sanded if I have to reach a bit but it really isn't a big deal.

Two words: Boom Arm. LOVE the boom arm for exactly this reason!

Or another mod people are doing is buying Tech Flex and installing it over the outside of the hose with some heat shrink tubing. You can order both from PartsExpress.com.

[Greg R Bradley]

Really? I think its actually well thought out. The design of the connector allows the 27mm hose to fit both "big" and "small" tools with the same connector and no adapters. The ribs on the inside of the hose and outside of the "small" tool connector mate with each other to make for a very secure fit. I just wish they'd done the same on the "big" connectors.

I agree completely and I have dust controlled tools from Bosch, Fein, Festool, Makita. Bosch is now updating their connection to the tool to be compatable with Festool. The earlier ones like on my Bosch Concrete Grinder are sad by comparison.

I don't understand the weight specs on the Bosch ROS65VC-6. When I picked on up, it felt similar size, shape, and weight of the Festool ETS150 - maybe a bit bulkier and heavier but not dramatically so.

Interesting- the Bosch ROS65 series is 2mm orbit, ETS125 & ETS150/3 is 3mm, ETS 150/5 is 5mm, Ceros is 5mm.

If you are buying a Festool, the two ETS150 sanders go up $15 on Feb 1. Also don't forget the Festool and Ceros come with a Systainer so most of the price advantage of the Bosch is gone. If you don't want the Systainer, they are easily sellable for $60. I will take it if you don't want it.

Info on Vacuums: Too little suction will drop the dust collection performance. Too much suction will make the pad chatter or be too aggressive on certain combinations of material, sandpaper, etc. There is usually a large range where it works well. If you are buying one without variable suction, you probably want one too weak rather than too strong.

[Chris Padilla]

Two words: Boom Arm. LOVE the boom arm for exactly this reason!

Or another mod people are doing is buying Tech Flex and installing it over the outside of the hose with some heat shrink tubing. You can order both from PartsExpress.com.

Yeah, I was thinking to wrap it in duct tape but that would be ugly!!

[Charles Brown]

I'd get the 150/3 myself. Or I should say that's what I did. The explanation I've heard is that the 150/5 is really more intended for production environments where some extra speed at the expense of finer finish is warranted. For general use, the 150/3 is more appropriate.

I have to disagree. We used the 150/5 to sand wood and polish Corian and you can't tell that it had a sander on it at all. The 150/5 is great for sanding wood to whatever grit suits your fancy. And the 5 mm orbit is much quicker than the 3 mm orbit. 3 mm orbits are painfully slow. Painfully.

Anyone who would list sanding as their favourite part of the woodworking experience please raise your hand.

Bueller?

In my opinion, the least amount of time spent delivering the best possible result is what I'm shooting for. You won't be sacrificing finish quality with the 150/5. If you do, you're probably pressing too hard on the sander.

My $0.02.

[Bas Pluim]

I have the ROS65VS. It's a great sander, very comfortable to use. Dust collection is excellent. When sanding with the canister, about 80% of the dust gets captured. With a shop vac (I'm using a Rigid), it gets >98%. The rubber attachment to connect the shop vac to the sander works fine, but it's a little bulky. But it's not as slick as the Festool setup (assuming you also have a Festool vac)

As for which sander has the better dust collection, it's hard to say without a particle counter. The ROS65VS is noticeably better than my 5" Rigid ROS. I also borrowed the Festool Rotex from a friend of mine for a project, and from non-scientific observation dust collection is about the same. A hand swiped over the surface comes back clean, even when sanding at 220 grit.

[Tom Willoughby]

I also borrowed the Festool Rotex from a friend of mine for a project, and from non-scientific observation dust collection is about the same. A hand swiped over the surface comes back clean, even when sanding at 220 grit.

Thank you for that first hand information Bas. Without being able to test them head to head, it is difficult to know what sander would serve my purposes best.

[Greg R Bradley]

Thank you for that first hand information Bas. Without being able to test them head to head, it is difficult to know what sander would serve my purposes best.
A Rotex has nothing to do with the ETS150 series. Friends that work on the outside of big wood boats seem to prefer the Bosch 1250DEVS to the Rotex 150 but neither is pleasant or quiet to use. Yes, the Rotex will do the same 5mm RO that the ETS will do but with much greater effort, cost, noise, etc. These aren't finish sanders unless you are finishing the outside of a house or boat or whatever. Unless you just have to do a small amount of finish work to clean up the work you just ground down to good wood.

The FWW review that rated the Bosch RO as best value was done in 2008 and did not involve the brand new Bosch series discussed as they did not exist. Old series RO as I recall, which vibrates and is also noisy. I read the article, tried one, returned it, and bought a second ETS150/5 for a shop.

I agree about the 150/5 doing excellent finish work. I find the ETS150/3 as least used in between ETS150/5 and ETS125. I suppose it depends on what you are doing. People who are reading spec sheets and trying to decide what to buy look at the Rotex in RO mode and decide to skip the ETS150/5, thinking they will eventually buy a Rotex. Those people should try a Rotex for 5 minutes and most of them will probably decide they have no interest in picking one up ever again. Young people working construction and doing house remodeling may want the Rotex but I can't see it replacing the ETS150/5 for most work.

[Jim Becker]

The design of the Festool sanders and media greatly contributes to their dust extraction excellence. I've had other sanders in the past, but since going to Festool, I'd have a hard time accepting much else for this task. If you choose to use non-Festool media, be sure it's made with the proper hole pattern, INCLUDING the center hole. That's a critical design element. :)

[Alan Lightstone]

For me, the Festool 150/3 is the bomb. Virtually no dust with the Festool vac. I have a Rotex, but it just sits in the systainer. Highly recommended, as is the Abranet, though I use tons of Festool sandpaper.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

I've got the RO150 and the ETS125.

People report dust-free sanding, but I finally ran a Dylos particulate counter during RO use (I, like a previous poster, work in a small windowless basement space). Counts of fine particulates jump up by an order or two of magnitude within seconds of the sander hitting wood. It may seem dust free, but its not, at least not as much as I had hoped. I appreciate that it is likely better than most of the other sanders.

This is connected to a Ct 33.

[Jim Andrew]

I have an older Bosch ros, and have the attachments to use it with my shop vac, and it is a huge improvement over the Bosch with the paper filter it came with. The sander is pretty tough, plan to send it in for a rebuild when it starts screwing up. Get my discs from the woodworking shop.com. The Bosch is 5" and has 8 hole discs. No experience with either of the other 2 sanders.

[Tom Willoughby]

Kelly, you mentioned that the particulate count jumps with the RO use. Have you tested with the ETS 125? I'm wondering if the dust collection is more efficient with smaller particles that the ETS sanders would likely produce.

[Sam Murdoch]

The Festoll RO 150 & 125 can be used as finish sanders with hardwoods but they are not the ETS sanders. They are more aggressive by far in either mode and consequently do throw out more dust. I think the size hose and the size Festool vac will change the equation. I run a Midi with the standard hose and the ETS 150/3 is very clean - the RO125 good but not the same. On the subject, I would say that the Midi and the Domino work well together but for the TS55 track saw the Midi is better than nothing and for the routers just adequate.

[Alan Lightstone]

I really don't see much of a jump with my Dylos particle meter and my ETS150/3.

Now with my drum sander, that's another story. It goes through the roof, but the ETS150 and Festool vac seem to keep it under control.

[Tom Willoughby]

Thank you Alan. That is pretty good evidence that ETS 150 is designed well for dust collection. Unless there is a big sale on the Mirka Ceros, I think I'll save my pennies and purchase the Festool ETS 150 sander.

Thank you to all!

Tom

[eugene thomas]

I have the 125, with ct22 or ct33 vacume hooked up no dust. Only time see dust escape is if sanding edge of narrow board. dylos reading not change

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Kelly, you mentioned that the particulate count jumps with the RO use. Have you tested with the ETS 125? I'm wondering if the dust collection is more efficient with smaller particles that the ETS sanders would likely produce.
Tom,

No, sorry I I haven't. And since another poster says he doesn't get a change in use, I plan to retest sometime when I get all my sanders together (I also have an RAS115).

[Michael W. Clark]

I think the ETS150 is a very good choice, I considered the ETS125 this year to supplement my other sanders. I already have the RO150 and the 6" pad can be a little cumbersome. I have to disagree with some of the other posts. In Rotex mode, the RO150 it is very aggressive, would rival most belt sanders, and can be about as noisy. However, in random orbit mode, it does excellent at finish sanding. I don't have an ETS so I can't compare to it. I would expect the ETS to be a better finish sander as that is it's primary design function. I do have one of the better Dewalt 5" ROS and the Rotex in random orbit mode will beat it hands down on finish, vibration, noise, less jumping, faster, and better dust collection. It should, its quite a bit more expensive. Just my observations. I think you will really like the ETS 150.

Mike

[Tom Willoughby]

Sanding the edge of the MDF was exactly how I created my dust cloud. I'm wondering if dust collection is an impossible task when sanding the edge of a board.

[Michael W. Clark]

Sanding the edge of the MDF was exactly how I created my dust cloud. I'm wondering if dust collection is an impossible task when sanding the edge of a board.

Edge sanding will be more difficult for dust capture and MDF is tough regardless. I use an RTS400 for edge sanding and face frame parts ( I think it is the same motor as the ETS125?). With part of the sander on the edge, you can crank up the vac speed to improve dust capture, but it will still probably not be as good as when sanding on the flat.

Mike

[Chris Padilla]

Jim alluded a bit to this earlier but the center of the pad pushes air out and the 8 holes around the perimeter pull air back in. This flow of air is interrupted if the pad isn't in full contact with the surface being sanded and thus dust extraction will suffer.

[Chris Padilla]

On a side note, have any of you ever started sanding with your Festool ROs only to discover you forgot to put sandpaper on it? It is funny, but the sander feels no different with or without sandpaper and due to the dust extraction being so excellent, you have no idea save for the fact that the surface doesn't seem to be improving! I have done this a few times and for 10s of seconds. It did not ruin my pad in the least so that is good. :)

[Tom Willoughby]

Thank you all for your input. I ended up getting the Festool ETS 150/5 sander through Bob Marino, who was great to purchase from. I am looking forward to receiving it next week and putting it to good use.

Thanks again.

Tom