Recommendations for a rookie!

[Charlie Watson]

It's been many years since I've done much woodworking and having recently retired I now have the time. Because of back issues I recently sold my boat so I also have some cash to invest in setting up my shop (up to $15k or so). So with time and a bit of cash, now what I'm lacking is experience (actually there's a lot more in that category!). My wife has agreed to converting our two car garage to a shop and I've been scouring these threads and the web getting ideas for shop layouts. I know some will advocate starting slow but that's not how I tend to approach things like this. I hope to be able to get better quality tools. I know I won't be able to afford the best but I don't want inexpensive, lower quality either. I will be in the market for a...

planer
jointer
table saw
drill press
band saw
lathe

I notice most can be 110 or 220, can I get by with 110v? What will I be giving up by doing so? (I will also be looking for a wet grinder, router and dust collection system etc.)

The manufactures I've found so far are Grizzly, Powermatic, Laguna, Jet, Rikon (I'm sure I'm missing a bunch). I tend to be leaning towards the Grizzly line. What manufactures would you guys recommend for these tools? I don't know, for example, if perhaps Grizzly makes a great band saw but they've had problems with their planer and I should go with someone else. Any opinions would be very much appreciated. I may take a trip up to Grizzly's showroom in Bellingham Washington to take a look at their products (I'm in San Diego). Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond, very much appreciated!

[Ted Calver]

Throw Felder/Hammer into the manufacturers list. They make some great jointer/planer combos. Also look at Sawstop for your table saw.

[Matt Day]

I think my first suggestion would be to buy tools that you need for what you're planning on making. Is your goal to outfit your shop with tools, or do you want to make something? I think you're going to waste time and money by simply buying everything you THINK you need at once. For instance, do you know you're going to do some turning? If so, how much do you think you'll be doing, because you can outfit an entire shop around lathe work.

Personally I really like Grizzly tools and I think that's a great way to go. If I were you I'd keep my eyes out for used equipment too, actually that would be my first avenue. But I enjoy surfing Craigslist and forums for used stuff and getting a deal.

You can get buy with 110v if you buy with it in mind, but some motors on some tools only take 220v. For instance my 8" jointer and cabinet saw only run on 220v. I think if you really want to setup a shop like you describe, you should run a 220v line to the garage - the panel can't be far away and it's an easy job if you're comfortable with basic electrical work.

[Jim Rimmer]

First of all, welcome to the Creek. You will find a lot of good info here.

I would echo Matt's comment - what do you plan to build? Are you going to be 8 hours a day 5 days a week in the shop or is it going to be a hobby? I have a couple of Grizzly tools and really like them. I don't have any 220v tools so can't answer that question except to say that I've never been in a situation where I said "Gee, I wish I had a more powerful tool." But I am a hobbyist, not a pro.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[Jamie Lynch]

Welcome to the creek!

After getting married and starting my own shop, all I had was a bench top router table, bench top table saw, bench top drill press, orbital sander, circular saw and cordless drill. Much of it was gifted to me, so my total investment at that time was about $100. I'd already been woodworking for 10+ years on my dads tools, so i knew what type of work I'd want to do and which tools best suited me.
I always tell people to try and find someone with a well equipped shop who would be willing to help build a project or two. Or take a couple classes at the local ww store. That way you can get a feel for which tools you really need and which are more of a luxury or eye candy.
I do understand the temptation to not start slow, but I definitely recommend it!

[Prashun Patel]

Personally, I'd think twice about a lathe. For most casework and furniture, there are ways around a lathe. Don't get me wrong; I love mine. However, a lathe purchase involves potentially hundreds of additional dollars in tools and accessories. There's a reason they call it the 'vortex'. If yr intent is to focus mainly on furniture, then I'd start with the 'flatworld' tools.

I do think it's wise to buy the best tools you can afford. The reason is easy resale.

As for voltage, I'd pay now to get 220 installed. The bigger bandsaws and cabinet tablesaws are frequently available only in 220. The additional power is very nice to have. If you are running a shop full of 110 tools, you might find you need to upgrade service to the garage anyway.

[Charlie Watson]

This is purely a hobby but I'm retired now and have lots of free time. I would like to be able to turn some bowls and boxes but I'm also interested in making some furniture so I guess I'm looking for a general purpose shop versus one designed towards a particular specialty. Thankfully there is a Junior College a few miles away that has an extensive woodworking program so I plan to go there to develop my skills. Thanks for the comments so far and please keep them coming!

[glenn bradley]

First off, welcome! Everyone is different but, here's my priorities. I am run mostly tailed tools for breakdown and hand tools for joinery / finish-work so, these may not be your priorities, that's OK:


Dust collection
Dust collection, again

in case you didn't get that this decision should be foremost, not an after thought ;)


Measrueing and marking tools

squares
striking knives
setup blocks
etc.


Tablesaw or bandsaw
bandsaw (if you didn't get one already
jointer / planer

they're a team, not separates, I like stand alones, YMMV


Router table / routers
drill press

the endless journey to find a decent one at a fair price continues . . . .


Hand tools, each category is a list of its own

screw drivers
chisels
planes
scrapers
shaves


Sharpening equipment
Storage solutions
etc.
etc.


Once again, welcome and have fun!

[Larry Browning]

May I be the first to say welcome to SMC! We always love getting new members! (well, rats!, when I started typing this no one had said welcome, but by the time I finished several had)
I am going make a couple of assumptions here.
Since you are converting a two car garage, my assumption is that you are going to have to have an electrical upgrade in that space no matter what, given your list of tools. You are going to have to add a new sub panel out there anyway, so why not just plan on adding some 220 circuits? My other assumption is that an electrical upgrade is probably not the only upgrading you are going to need to do. I would also recommend you allocate a portion of the 15 grand to turning that space into a actual shop space. You will need good lighting, along with possible plumbing for compressed air, and DC. Remember the shop itself needs to be considered a tool and you should invest in it accordingly. It sounds like you have a pretty good idea as to what your major machines are going to be. But you really need to spend the time preparing the space you are going to use them in. Also, your should really add dust collection to that list, and then always consider it when selecting the machines you will be using it with.

You also mentioned you might want to take a trip to Washington to see the Grizzly showroom. That's a pretty long trip from San Diego. I would consider looking around locally for a Shop Fox dealer and have a look at that brand. They are essentially the same machines, only painted white. Also, I am sure there are plenty of SMC members close by that would be more than happy to have you pay a visit to their shops that own a Grizzly machine just like what you are considering.

Another thought, don't try to learn everything all at once. Remember, you have lots of time. You said there was a JC close that offers woodworking classes. Take a few of those, maybe even before you spend a nickel on your new shop. You might find those classes will change which machine you buy, and in what order. Like others have said, try to resist the idea of buying everything all at once. It will work out better in the long run.

[Charlie Watson]

Thanks for the welcome all, very much appreciated! I'm learning so much from these posts and they already have me rethinking my approach. I'm not going to rush into anything and really want to do this right so I appreciate the comments on the shop set up. I've emptied the garage (no small feat!) and have a bid on Spartaflex flooring http://www.perkinscustomcoatings.com/index.php. It's like epoxy but seems to be more durable (not sure if anyone has any experience with it??). I'll bring in the electrician next but I figured I would wait until after I decide on which equipment to get so we can get an idea of what the load will be.

[Larry Browning]

Most folks find that adding a 100amp sub-panel to a garage shop is sufficient. You should consider having 110 outlets on every wall placed about 4' apart and about 52" off the floor. 52" off the floor is important because it will allow you to put tables and benches along the wall below the outlets, and a 4x8 sheet of plywood will fit under them as well. You might also consider a few ceiling plugs as well. The 220 might need a bit more planning, but always put in one or 2 more than you need for any future expansion. Also, be sure to plan for lots lighting. Do some research on lighting and how much you will need. There has been quite a bit of advancement in lighting technology recently, and there are lots of choices.

[Darius Ferlas]

With a $15K budget you should be able to furnish your shop with mostly the Hammer line, even if some machines would be second hand.

[Jim Matthews]

. Thankfully there is a Junior College a few miles away that has an extensive woodworking program so I plan to go there to develop my skills.

It the Junior College will allow you to use their machines, when you need them - don't buy duplicates.
85% of what I do is by hand, these days. Machines excel at getting boards milled to thickness and straight.

Beyond that, a bandsaw may be the only machine tool I really use.

It's easy to buy things, finding time to use them is difficult.
I would recommend taking a couple of classes and keep a
tool usage log. Things that don't get used more than
once in a week shouldn't be on your purchase order.

May I recommend Jim Tolpin's "The New Traditional woodworker"
this text makes plain a method that doesn't require dust collection.

Fewer cast iron appliances means your garage stays clear, too.

[Prashun Patel]

Charlie-
Looking at all these posts again, my advice would be to pick a project and acquire the tools to make that first. I think about your $15k and my mouth waters. But I think you could end up with some stuff that you may hardly ever use.

In general, I'd start with the portables first: router, drill, circular, jigsaw, then the big saws (table/band) and only after that the milling machines (jointer/planer). You can always buy s4s for the first few years. Anyway more rambling to add to your 'dilemma'!!!

[Brian Kincaid]

Charlie,
I agree with others you should start by stating what kind of projects you would like to build.
A turner's shop is much different than a cabinet maker is much different than a chair maker.

-Brian

[Don Bullock]

Congratulations on your retirement and welcome to Sawmill Creek! I was in your position just a few years ago except the home my wife and I bought when we retired didn't have a garage. That was our first big expenditure. We built a 24 x 40 foot shop/garage building next to the house.

Before I continue with my experience i'd like to say that others have already given you some excellent advise. I have learned a lot from the people here. It's still my favorite woodworking forum.

I bought tools as I needed them for projects and/or when they went on sale. Since I had an old Craftsman table saw that was my first upgrade. With my wife's full support I bought a SawStop table saw. I would highly recommend either one of them or a slider style saw such as the Hammer that someone has suggested. There are several excellent brands of these saws. In addition to my table saw I purchased the following tools which I've listed in the order I bought them not in importance or need. My large machines include: sliding compound miter saw, band saw, table top drill press (only tool I regret buying because I need longer quill travel), mortiser, jointer, planer (these last two could be combined in one machine), dust collector, and a router table with and dedicated router. Like I mentioned some of these were bought because they were on a special sale. Of course I do have some other small electric tools including several drills, a couple of routers (I need more!), belt/spindle sander combination (Rigid), some Festool sanders with a dedicated Festool dust extractor, several additional vacuums for added dust collection and clean up, and a few other tools that I use mostly for home improvement projects. I'm sure I've forgotten something. Of course I also have many other tools. Some of the most important are used for measuring and marking projects. While I have quite a few clamps, one never has enough of them. Right now I'm concentrating more on hand tools and specific tools, i.e. planes, files, router bits, etc. I'm buying them as needed and money allows me to buy them.

I know you want it all now, but please follow the advise of taking things slowly. While $15,000 sounds like a lot of money it will gone before you realize it's gone. Until you have a good idea what you'll be making you don't really know what you need. Once you get into working on your projects it will be clear what machines, tools, accessories, supplies, etc. you'll really need. The most important factor is to have fun.

[Brian Kent]

Welcome, Charlie. Sorry to say that Palomar College woodworking department is closed in the Spring. Happy to say that it is being rebuilt, improved, and refurnished.

I really like my Grizzly band saw and table saw. I do enjoy my Delta lathe. I love quieter tools like the Delta 50-760 dust collector and Porter cable 890 router. I use my drum sander all the time. I love hand tools and use a combination of power and hand tools. I would go for a couple of 220 circuits so that will not be a limit. Also I like the quiet Home Depot "professional" dust collectors. I also get a lot of good use out of the Jet overhead dust filter.

Have fun.

[Jim Neeley]

Charlie,

Welcome to the Creek! :)

First, a +1 vote for dust collection. Visit www.billpentz.com and spend some time reading. Some will say he goes overboard, others will say those who dismiss him are in denial. Make your own assessment.

Then +1 on investing in an electrical upgrade (subpanel); it's not a big $$$ item given your budget but it'll make your life a lot smoother on down the road.

Finally, invest in good lighting for your shop. Visit this link here at the Creek: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/content.php?146-Lighting-the-Small-Workshop-by-Jack-Lindsey

Make sure to have sufficient lighting and recognize that we need more light as we get older. I know at 54 I need more than I did 10 years ago and I've no reason to believe that I won't need more in 10 more years. When wiring those lights, split them between two different breakers. That way if you're using a power tool (say, the table saw) and a light shorts and trips the breaker, only half of the lights go out. You don't want to be standing in the dark, mid-cut with the table saw still spinning under power.

IMO, then it's time to get the tools. Build (or allocate budget for) the infrastructure to support your shop first. It'll make the rest a pleasure.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim

[James Nugnes]

Amazing how much light really helps as the old pupils simply are not as nimble as the used to be. One of the surest reminders of how gall-danged old I am getting.

Dust collection...dust is a big problem in an enclosed space with power tools. Even with dust collection I will often opt for the cold of NH winter for the fresh air while working.

As others have said, you really really do want to try to define the types of projects you want to do before you start to stock up on the equipment. If you don't you run the very real risk that you are just hammering away on some tools constantly while others you have invested good money into just sit there idly...mocking you. While on the one hand you might not mind the money invested in the stuff you are not using....if you had it all to do over, you could get higher quality versions of the stuff you are hammering at day in and day out and that can become a frustration.

[george newbury]

Welcome aboard from another newbie. I'm in about the same boat. Recently retired and fitting out a shop.

You wrote:

<snip> I will be in the market for a...

planer
jointer
table saw
drill press
band saw
lathe

<snip>

You've stated a budget of $15K but in your list you left off upgrade of the garage, storage, dust collection and probably a wide sander.

One of the prime things for the planer and jointer you need to determine is how big will the wood be? A decent 20" planer w/ helical head might cost $2.5K+, a Jointer $800. Drop down to 15" and save a thousand.

I think a good Saw Stop w/ blades and extras runs about $3K+

I've been perusing Craigs List and although some deals may be available they are few and far between compared to just going out and buying new.

Definitely take some time in the woodworking classes.

Plan on storage for your shop. A good first project might be building shelving and bookcases. No matter how much dust collection you have, closed storage (bookcases) are great to keep the dust off your equipment.

Pay attention to climate control also. Will you need a "paint booth"? An area to dry projects?

Have fun outfitting your shop, and build something for your wonderful wife.

[Ole Anderson]

I say go for it. The workhorse/centerpiece of most shops is the tablesaw. Don't skimp, get a 3 hp 220 volt saw with at least a riving knife and the long rails so you can cut to the middle of a 8' piece of sheet goods. Now that takes up a good deal of room, an alternate would be to just get the short rail TS and a track saw. Sawstop TS if it fits in your total budget. Add a cyclone dust collector to your list, minimum 2 hp, preferably 3 hp. Add a router table with dedicated 15 amp router to the list. You will want some sort of miter or SCMS for crosscutting long boards. Save the lathe for until you need it, the other tools you will need for most any project unless you buy finished lumber, in which case you might be able to skip the jointer and planer for now. Your first projects, unless you have some honeydo list, will likely be things for your shop, a basic workbench, some storage shelves or cabinets, a router table, a dust collection system (yes that can be a project all in itself).

I have gotten by for years with a lunchbox planer and a 6" jointer and without a wide sander (finally starting to consider that, but space is getting to be an issue in my 350 sf basement shop). Personally, if you are just getting into this hobby, you might want to wait before spending big bucks on anything other than a TS. Even there you could start with a lesser saw and trade up when you realize that you really got the bug.

Man, I love spending someone else's money!

Hand tools like planes: Two schools of thought, those that do and those that don't. Either way works. Power hand tools are something else. If you don't already have a collection, get a decent 18v drill/impact driver combo. Lots on the market. You will occasionally need a jigsaw. A ROS with dust collection is a necessity. You will need a shop vac to clean up and suck dust from your ROS. Get a trim router for round overs and edging after assembly. With a router table, you might be able to get by without router #3, a plunge router.

[John Bailey]

First, if you haven't already done so, take some of that $15K and buy the wife something. Agreeing to have the entire garage turned into a shop is worth a lot and makes many of us envious.

The best advice you've been given so far is to buy your tools as you need them. I've seen a lot of wasted money thrown at machines that hardly get used. Personally, I got rid of my table saw and jointer because I didn't use them, and, more importantly, didn't like using them. For you, they may be the most used and enjoyed. I think everyone is different. As you get into your new hobby, you'll have a better idea what you want to put money toward.

Now, my suggestion! I would start with the best circular saw, saw track, drill/driver combo, and random orbiter sander you can afford. These will come in handy while you are turning your garage into a shop and will be useful for years to come on any project you take on. I like Bosch tools, but they're all good -- pick your favorite color. Probably ought to throw in a good router also.

Secondly, buy some good measuring tools. It's tough to do precise work without good measuring.

Third, buy some good hand planes. A good block plane is essential. I've got both a low angle and regular block plane. i can't remember the last ime i used the regular. I've added #'s 3, 4, and 5 and will add a 7 in the future. Don't forget a sharpening system.

Beyond that, buy the big tools as you need them for your projects. Most would probably suggest a good table saw, and there are probably good reasons for that. I chose to make my bandsaw my go to machine, and love every minute I spend using it. I would make that my first big purchase. I didn't like using my table saw and got rid,of it. I have a 1950's DeWalt Radial Arm Saw and enjoy its versatility. That being said, I'm thinking about replacing it with one of the track systems that are out there. It seems a great way to go for me.

Good luck in your choices. I chose to go "Old 'Arn." The newest machine I've got is a 1959 Oliver bandsaw. I greatly appreciate being around and using the old stuff, but, I must admit to lusting after some, of the modern conveniences of the newer machines. It often takes me half an hour to change a bandsaw blade, and that gets old.

John

[Charlie Watson]

Awesome information guy's, thanks so much!

[Larry Browning]

Awesome information guy's, thanks so much!
Charlie,
We love to give advice around here. And there is always plenty of it. Many times you will get conflicting advice. The way I have found to deal with that is to realize that ultimately, things are my own decision, I just read the advice and get ideas from it. I use some of it and reject some of it. But I welcome all of it.

[Myk Rian]

I built my shop after retiring. Acquired machines as I needed them.
For the cash you have available, you can build a nice shop, but one thing you WILL need is lumber. And racks to store it on. Look for local mills in your area. Rough-sawn is the way to go.
For that, get an 8" minimum jointer, and a planer. Just milling your own lumber is a satisfying job.

Table or cabinet saw.
Drill press
A band saw is always useful

If you have mechanical abilities, restoring vintage machines is a great way to learn about them, and how they work. And you can end up with better quality machines than what is available in stores. My first restoration was a DeWalt radial arm saw. I was deathly afraid of them until I finished it, and started using it.

If you really want to turn bowls, depending on how big you make them will determine the size of lathe you need. That could possibly be one of the costlier machines when you add in tooling, and accessories.

[Lornie McCullough]

Hi Charlie....

If you buy the tools you need to build the custom cabinets, storage, work bench for YOURSELF and for YOUR workshop, then you end up with experience and a custom work space.

One of my favorite sayings: "The hardest tool to buy is the first one..... the easiest tool to buy is the next one." The first tool purchase is filled with indecision, but after that you buy tools to make your work easier and better.

And safer.

Lornie

[Brian Kent]

Another thing that could delay your need for the jointer and planer is Reel Lumber in Riverside, CA. They cost about 2/3 of the best prices in San Diego and 3 surfaces of each board are usually ready to glue.

[Ole Anderson]

As far as wood, my local mills will plane 2 surfaces quite inexpensively, edging is another matter. I usually get it planed 1/16" oversize and do the final milling in my shop with my lunchbox planer. I would not get much rough sawn unless you have a full size planer, then be prepared for dealing with a LOT of sawdust/shavings. Also buying this way I primarily use my jointer for edges, so a 6" is plenty.

[Charlie Watson]

Thanks for the tip on Reel Lumber, I'm in North County on the 15 side so Riverside isn't to far, not far at all for a good selection of lumber at reasonable prices.

[Carl Beckett]

Charlie,

You have come to the right place.

We are here to help. :D