Pinnacle M Series 1 Laser disappearing after first mirror?????

[Dean Martell]

Hello Everyone,

I have just bought a Pinnacle Laser M-series 1 and was aligning the red dot and the laser but after messing with it I can align the laser and the red dot to the bulls eye perfectly on the first mirror (closest to the tube). The red dot goes perfectly to the bulls eye all the way to the deck but the laser disappears? It seems to disappear as it goes up the tube. Does anyone have any advice they can give me as I am at my wits end with this thing.

Thank you in advance,

Dean.

[Rodne Gold]

The red dot and the laser do not use the same mirror at the first mirror (the one just after the actual laser tube at the bottom of the machine) , the red dot uses a silvered mirror and the laser uses a gold disc. You need to adjust that gold disc mirror to stop the beam hitting the tube from the bottom to the top of the machine and adjust it to hit the first top mirror centrally. Adjust the laser beam first and then use the silvered mirror adjustment to make the red dot and the laserbeam co incident.
Red dot and beam are 2 completely separate systems

[Chuck Stone]

sounds like the mirror is out of alignment. Hitting the mirror with the laser beam is
pretty much a given if it is in the right place. But where it GOES is what you're affecting
when you do the alignment.
Ignore the red dot until your laser beam is aligned. It isn't coming from the same place
as the laser, so where it goes really isn't relevant until the beam is aligned. Once your
laser beam is on target 'all the way to the deck', the red dot probably won't be. Then
you can change the position of the red dot pointer. I think on your machine there is a
separate mirror for the red dot pointer. It is just under the laser beam window and it
faces mirror 1. The pointer is directly above that, pointing down into the mirror and
then bouncing back into mirror 1.

EDIT: Rodney beat me to it while I was searching for a diagram.
Follow Rodney's advice. He's had a few of these machines.

[Dean Martell]

The red dot and the laser do not use the same mirror at the first mirror (the one just after the actual laser tube at the bottom of the machine) , the red dot uses a silvered mirror and the laser uses a gold disc. You need to adjust that gold disc mirror to stop the beam hitting the tube from the bottom to the top of the machine and adjust it to hit the first top mirror centrally. Adjust the laser beam first and then use the silvered mirror adjustment to make the red dot and the laserbeam co incident.
Red dot and beam are 2 completely separate systems

Okay. Thank you for this. I will try again with this advice. I have no idea why they make the first mirror (under the pointer) almost impossible to adjust.

[Dean Martell]

The red dot and the laser do not use the same mirror at the first mirror (the one just after the actual laser tube at the bottom of the machine) , the red dot uses a silvered mirror and the laser uses a gold disc. You need to adjust that gold disc mirror to stop the beam hitting the tube from the bottom to the top of the machine and adjust it to hit the first top mirror centrally. Adjust the laser beam first and then use the silvered mirror adjustment to make the red dot and the laserbeam co incident.
Red dot and beam are 2 completely separate systems

I was just thinking about this and still don't understand if the laser hit the center of the gold disc immediately after the laser tube then why does it not go upwards and hit the next disc?

[Rodne Gold]

Here's the whole mercury maintenance manual , check section 2 will show you how to align both optically and the red dot pointer , do 2.2 and then the rest if you want the red dot pointer accurate to the laser beam right from word go. Its an old manual and a bit chinglish ..sorry don't have a newer one at hand.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38812854/Mercury%20Maintenance%20Manual.zip

[Dean Martell]

Have you ever noticed your machine to have the laser and the red dot to match up perfect at the furtherest corner but when it moves closer to the tube it becomes further away from alignment?

I have gotten mine aligned to pretty much perfect where the manual says to do it in the bottom right corner of the deck and it cuts perfectly there but at the top right corner of the deck it doesn't even cut the same material and when you look at the red dot it is way off so I am assuming the laser is also firing off?

[Dean Martell]

Here's the whole mercury maintenance manual , check section 2 will show you how to align both optically and the red dot pointer , do 2.2 and then the rest if you want the red dot pointer accurate to the laser beam right from word go. Its an old manual and a bit chinglish ..sorry don't have a newer one at hand.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38812854/Mercury%20Maintenance%20Manual.zip

Have you ever noticed too much movement in the y axis of the machine?

What do you guys think of the pinnacle?

[Chuck Stone]

I have the same machine (Mercury) and while I like it, it's also the only
machine I know firsthand. (except for an old 2 ton ultraviolet beast that
works with a bar code reader)
For the Y axis movement, (assuming good bearings, bushings, belts etc.)
you might want to check the rollers above and below the lens assembly.
The screws can loosen up, giving you some play. The rollers are rubber
and constantly in motion, so there could be some wear there, too.

[Richard Rumancik]

I was just thinking about this and still don't understand if the laser hit the center of the gold disc immediately after the laser tube then why does it not go upwards and hit the next disc?

Just because the laser hits the mirror at the center does not mean that the beam is aligned. You need to have it hit the first mirror at 45 degrees so that it reflects at 45 degrees (or you could call it 135 degrees = 45+90). If it hit at 43 degrees and still centered, it will then reflect off skewed (call it 137 degrees) and then the beam can hit the telescoping tube wall instead of hitting the next mirror. (Note 43 + 94 + 43 = 180) Draw yourself a sketch and if it still doesn't make sense ask futher.

Normally the laser pointer does not go out of alignment. Most laser alignment instructions are based on the premise that the red beam is okay, and that the laser beam is out, and that you adjust the laser beam to converge (approximately) with the red beam. You say that the red beam is good "all the way to the deck", which seems to be saying your red beam pointer is aligned. So you need to adjust the laser beam to suit. But it is not just a matter of hitting a mirror in the center; the angle of the mirror has to be correct. Every mirror must reflect 45 degrees right down to the table.

In the odd case where the red beam goes out of alignment then you need to align the laser without the benefit of the red beam, and tweak the red beam to match. But it sounds like this is not your situation, if I understand correctly. But other people have interpreted your explanation differently so perhaps you need to clarify.

I haven't analyzed the red beam optics but you should not expect too much from it i.e. don't expect convergence all over the table. It is not that good. Just align the actual co2 beam as best you can all over the table. You still won't get a "bulls eye" everywhere but iterate until you get the best average.

Some lasers use a truly coincident red pointer by using partial mirrors to inject the red beam but this causes some energy loss. So maybe the red beam is more accurate all over but at the expense of some loss of power.

Don't expect too much from the red beam. It is just for crude alignments. If you need better alignments you need to deal with it other ways (by better fixturing for example.)

[Richard Rumancik]

. . .I have gotten mine aligned to pretty much perfect where the manual says to do it in the bottom right corner of the deck and it cuts perfectly there but at the top right corner of the deck it doesn't even cut the same material and when you look at the red dot it is way off so I am assuming the laser is also firing off?

Okay, I missed this comment on my first response - seems like you DO have a problem with the red beam being out in one corner of the table. In which case you need to align the laser beam in 4 corners of the table with the red beam turned off. Then tweak the red beam to be more-or-less centered in 4 corners of the table. Are you comfortable using the instructions you have? If not ask.

The laser does not automatically follow the red beam - the red beam can be totally off, and the laser optics can be perfectly aligned. The red beam is just supposed to be an independent "tattle tale" as to where the co2 beam is, as it is invisible.

Make sure you understand how the mirror mounts work - they are like a tripod adjustment with a preload in the middle. You might have to make a special wrench to turn the screws depending on the type of screw head your machine has on the three adjustment screws.

[Rodne Gold]

Richard , in the manual I posted there is a way of aligning the red beam to the laser beam before he even starts beam alignment , doing so makes beam alignment a snap as you can use the red beam pointer ..his problem right now is that , as you say , the first mirror is not adjusted properly.
The machine is a good one , GCC still make and sell them , the older mercuries are not the speediest of lasers , but its an excellent workhorse
The manual I posted is actually a dealers manual with exploded views of all the mechanics/assembly drawing and parts lists. (and some component prices from 2000)
Check belt tightness if there is too much Y axis movement , it should be "tight".

[Richard Rumancik]

Richard , in the manual I posted there is a way of aligning the red beam to the laser beam before he even starts beam alignment , doing so makes beam alignment a snap as you can use the red beam pointer ..his problem right now is that , as you say , the first mirror is not adjusted properly. . . .

I guess you are right - not sure why I had it in my head that he would have to align the co2 beam first.

It is not something I have done for a long time. I think you are referring to removing the first gold mirror and shooting the laser beam across the room and burning a target point several meters away - then aligning the red beam to that. (To everyone else - yes, this procedure is potentially dangerous and requires laser glasses and restricted access to the room.)

[Rodne Gold]

Yep , the shooting across the room thing...and yes , it isnt the safest thing to do.

[Richard Rumancik]

Dean, I just remembered that there is a much better alignment procedure for Mercury on the laserprona website. It was written by Koser Enterprises in 2006. Color pics and everything - 13 pages. Only thing is that you need a code to log on to the support area of the website. Your dealer should be able to give you this - if you bought used, contact someone at laserprousa.com and see if they will give you permissions. You might need your SN.

I could send you the pdf (its 6MB) if you send me an email by PM. It would be worth it to get a logon to laserprousa as there might be other info there that you can use. Also Jorlink.com used to have some good info but some of it has disappeared. I think you need a login there as well.

[Dean Martell]

Okay thanks a lot for all the info guys. I now have the red dot and the laser aligned. I did it by copying the way a buddy of mine with an epilog does his. Instead of starting at the furtherest point, I started at the closest point and then worked my way out. Then I checked all positions and if it was out I did it again and again and got it as close to perfect as possible.

I still have movement in the tack that runs accross the x axis. I put a video on youtube (http://youtu.be/PRu-WD8xdUM) of it here and send it to the GCC tech support to see if this is normal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRu-WD8xdUM&feature=share&list=UU8qg__pqnsZ0l7cRxBxACdg

[Dean Martell]

The video shows the play but I probably could have explained it better it seems to have the movement in the side tracks on either side of the table, the head is perfectly tight.