Sawstop Pricing

[Matt Meiser]

Anyone know how stable their pricing has been the last couple years? Anyone know of any price increases coming soon?

[Rich Riddle]

Matt,

For the last couple of years, they have hovered around $3000 with all the other expensive models. I have seen a few sales, but the price has seemed pretty stable. I will try to get some information at the woodworking show this Friday and ask around there.

[Mark Ashmeade]

I do know that there's there's an official policy of price fixing. Discounts are absolutely not allowed by Sawstop. The only way to get anything resembling a deal is to order a load of ancillary stuff with the saw, and have them discount or throw in the ancillaries. However, the saw itself will always show at full price on the receipt. They may "give" you a Forrest blade, but the saw itself will not be discounted.

I don't know whether I applaud this policy or not. I like it being plain and simple, it's the same price everywhere. But if these were airline tickets, Sawstop & the retailers would all be in jail for running a price fixing cartel. But then they aren't airline tickets. If I were the company, I'd probably start off with this policy, until the government or commercial pressures forced me to drop it.

I don't know of any price increases, but then again there's on in my shop now, so no need to keep an eye on the market for them. I have seen Grizzly increase their prices, so it wouldn't surprise me if Sawstop do too, as they are made in the same country, so must face the same price pressures in manufacture.

[Kevin Womer]

Hey Matt,
Bought my PCS back in Oct and it was 2,899 everywhere I looked. Extras were 199.00. Haven't ever heard of them going on sale, other than they threw in the free dust collection a while back. Woodwerks Expo should be coming up in a few weeks, I haven't seen anything in the mail yet, but do know it is the same weekend as the WW shows at the fairgrounds. If you end up going give me a shout, I may be going to one or the other. Let me know if you are in town sometime.
Good Luck,
Kevin

[Matt Meiser]

I know pricing is fixed, just curious if I should expect to see them go up anytime soon.

Kevin, I'll be back down there sometime soon depending on my and my Newark client's schedule. And i might try to get to Woodwerks depending on the weather. I'll let you know.

[Rich Riddle]

Mark,

You have the right to sell your product at a set price. Many companies have fixed prices, including Festool. There's nothing illegal in this policy. Price rigging is another story; that's when a group of businesses get together to artificially inflate prices. So if Delta, Powermatic, Saw Stop, Grizzly, etc. would all get together and ensure that all cabinet saws sold for $5000 new, that would be price rigging. Same goes for airlines. Any individual airline can set high prices, but if they all do it at a similarly high rate, it's rigging.

Amazon shows that the cabinet saw usually sells for $3249 but is on sale at Woodcraft for $3000. Additionally, some stores will offer a sale on all tools despite the fact certain manufacturers don't like this. If they get caught, then Saw Stop can take away their ability to sell the saw. I know of one store that will discount all tools in the local area.

[John Coloccia]

I do know that there's there's an official policy of price fixing. Discounts are absolutely not allowed by Sawstop. The only way to get anything resembling a deal is to order a load of ancillary stuff with the saw, and have them discount or throw in the ancillaries. However, the saw itself will always show at full price on the receipt. They may "give" you a Forrest blade, but the saw itself will not be discounted.

I don't know whether I applaud this policy or not. I like it being plain and simple, it's the same price everywhere. But if these were airline tickets, Sawstop & the retailers would all be in jail for running a price fixing cartel. But then they aren't airline tickets. If I were the company, I'd probably start off with this policy, until the government or commercial pressures forced me to drop it.

I don't know of any price increases, but then again there's on in my shop now, so no need to keep an eye on the market for them. I have seen Grizzly increase their prices, so it wouldn't surprise me if Sawstop do too, as they are made in the same country, so must face the same price pressures in manufacture.

FYI, they're allowed to do it because this is considered "vertical" price fixing, as opposed to horizontal price fixing. It's subject to the rule of reason test instead. Horizontal fixing would be if Woodcraft, Rockler and Highland got together and decided to fix the price of the SS. Vertical fixing is when it happens at different levels, such as between a manufacturer and a retailer.

[Mark Ashmeade]

The bit where it falls down for me is that Sawstop sell only through retailers. You can't buy the PCS or ICS online either. The retailers can't adjust their pricing to suit the local market, or competition. It's anti-competitive to me. I'm not really complaining though, I would do the same if I could. I suppose there's an argument that says if the saws were exposed to competitive pricing, then Sawstop may make so little money (or the retailers) that they couldn't sustain being in business, which is obviously not in the consumer's interest.

Grizzly's quite different. You can pretty much only buy from Grizzly or Amazon, and it's the same price. You could buy a very similar machine in most cases under the Shop Fox brand, but they're sold through retailers, and the price isn't advertised (thus open to local adjustment).

I'm not complaining, as I said, I just find it a bit out of the ordinary. But as Rich says, Festool do the same for their premium products. As do Apple & Mercedes-Benz. Maybe it's a market positioning thing.

[Roger Feeley]

You can negotiate on delivery a bit. I got my local supplier to throw in moving the ICS down to my basement.

The nice thing about the fixed price is that you can choose your supplier based on customer service and reputation.

[Kevin Guarnotta]

The fixed price thing happens with appliances too. I think the reasoning is actually probably good for the consumer in the long run. If the saw could be discounted, then any local store could be beat by an online retailer. By fixing the price, thelocal store knows they are selling their service along with the product. This helps keep the local shops in business - which provides a great service to us (we can actually go look at the products, and see how they work, as opposed to just looking at a catalog).

[Dan Hintz]

The bit where it falls down for me is that Sawstop sell only through retailers. You can't buy the PCS or ICS online either. The retailers can't adjust their pricing to suit the local market, or competition. It's anti-competitive to me.
So what if they didn't sell through retailers, only directly from their factory? Would the price bug you? If so, you'd find a different saw to purchase. Because you'd go elsewhere, that's not anti-competitive.

As you just said, Grizzly does exactly that. I don't see a problem...


I suppose there's an argument that says if the saws were exposed to competitive pricing, then Sawstop may make so little money (or the retailers) that they couldn't sustain being in business, which is obviously not in the consumer's interest.
That's the way the free market works... if you can't sell your product at a rate that makes a profit, you go under. It's no different for SS as it is for anyone else.

[Matt Meiser]

So I have it on good authority that a price "restructuring" is coming Feb 1.

[Prashun Patel]

Matt, some dealers will ship for free - which might also have tax-free implications for you vs. buying local.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Guys, I'm really not complaining, I just find it surprising. I happily ponied up the three grand last year. I'll be more happy if Feb 1 brings an increase. And if there's a decrease, well so be it. I've had a really nice saw for the last 6 months or so, that I'll continue to have if the price comes down.

[Matt Meiser]

Its an increase according to my source but he didn't/couldn't say how much.

[Greg Portland]

I don't know whether I applaud this policy or not. I like it being plain and simple, it's the same price everywhere. But if these were airline tickets, Sawstop & the retailers would all be in jail for running a price fixing cartel. But then they aren't airline tickets. If I were the company, I'd probably start off with this policy, until the government or commercial pressures forced me to drop it.
Are cartel implies that multiple companies are colluding to fix the global cost of an item (e.g. all table saws). Sawstop sells their item at a specific price... if the market doesn't like it then consumers will buy a different product (Powermatic, Unisaw, etc.). There's nothing illegal about this and multiple companies do it (see Festool, Grizzly, etc.). Airlines can price fix their tickets but the -industry- can not.