What is Ambrosia Maple actually ??

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Having seen lots of wood and also noted the names that are given to wood because of not knowing or beliefs of what it is, of course also because of what people would like it to be, rather than call it what it really is.

So here a couple of pictures and a link to government info of what causes and is what we commonly call Ambrosia Maple.

Ambrosia Maple is as I found out not very common around where I lived but is very common at other areas, so I wanted to know what is it and how does it get into the wood.

Found out that one kind of Ambrosia beetle (there are a whole bunch of different ones) bores straight into the tree, it doesn't eat the wood, but it carries a fungus along with him/her, this fungus does grow in wood that is still green, not dead and dry, or soaking wet either, grows best in trees that are sick or cut down but not in healthy growing trees.

The fungus is eaten by the beetle but is also there for the eggs that are laid and hatch inside these tunnels, so it's basically for it's offspring and the beetle him/herself.

This brings us to the look of the ambrosia wood, each stained streak is around a tunnel, quite often there are a couple of openings, but at least there's got to be one for every streak, just some discoloration does not turn Maple into Ambrosia Maple, (nor does it make it spalting) stain is stain, however nice or not.

Also as a side note, there are a few more trees that are sometimes attacked by the Ambrosia beetle, but Silver Maple seems to be the most often attacked.

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http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/resources/health/field-guide/wb/ambrosia.shtml


In the next link there are a couple of real good examples of Ambrosia Maple by Thomas Bennett, real eye candy there :cool:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?187892-What-is-Ambrosia-Maple

[John Keeton]

Good info, Leo. I often see wood characterized as Ambrosia maple, when it clearly is not. I would add that Sycamore (often erroneously referred to as being in the maple family) can also be host to the Ambrosia beetle with equally attractive results.

[Thom Sturgill]

The ambrosia beetle recently made it here to Florida. Actually the beetle is named for the fungus and not the other way around. Here it is attacking Redbud (which it kills) and Avacado. The Avacado groves can save a tree by removing the affected limbs. It is possible that wood exchanges, especially those with intact bark, could be at fault. Those of us that camp know that most parks now require that firewood be procured locally and not brought in from out of the area.

[Fred Perreault]

Very informative, as I have wondered about the origin of the darkening effect.

Thanks, Leo......

[Mike Cruz]

Leo, very nice description. I have to say that my understanding that the fungus grew on their feces... And that is why the fungus can grow in the living tree.

I've got a lot of it here. Here are a few pics...one of a cross cut of a highly ambrosiaed maple, one of a log cut into blanks, and one of a bowl turned from it.

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[Leo Van Der Loo]

Good info, Leo. I often see wood characterized as Ambrosia maple, when it clearly is not. I would add that Sycamore (often erroneously referred to as being in the maple family) can also be host to the Ambrosia beetle with equally attractive results.

Thanks John, I'm quite sure that the first picture is actually American Sycamore, and I have to add, American Sycamore, as it is called a Plane tree in England, you see here again is a case of misnaming going on, the English are calling the tree we call Maple a Sycamore :rolleyes: :eek:, and the Sycamore (Platanus species) is what they call a Plane tree................ so their Sycamore is actually a Maple/Acer :D

This is what you get when you go with just some name you heard of a tree that maybe looks somewhat like whatever you want to give a name to, like they did with Cedar, and a few more

BTW the Platanus orientalis is the Sycamore that grows in Europe, did not grow in England till imported and crossbred with the Platanus occidentalis, and now called Plane tree.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

The ambrosia beetle recently made it here to Florida. Actually the beetle is named for the fungus and not the other way around. Here it is attacking Redbud (which it kills) and Avacado. The Avacado groves can save a tree by removing the affected limbs. It is possible that wood exchanges, especially those with intact bark, could be at fault. Those of us that camp know that most parks now require that firewood be procured locally and not brought in from out of the area.

It is possible Tom, however don't forget there are quit a number of these little beetles in that family.

See over here the Ambrosia does NOT attack a healthy tree, I believe it is to wet and would probably drown the new grubs or even the freshly laid eggs, I'm not sure off this though, could be just a case of the fungus not able to grow and so the beetle would die without its food supply

Also these Ambrosia beetles go right into the wood, taking the bark off would only affect it if the wood dried as then the fungus could not grow, this is btw the best way to prevent the staining if you don't want that in your wood, dry the wood so the fungus is unable to grow.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Very informative, as I have wondered about the origin of the darkening effect.

Thanks, Leo......

Thanks for commenting Fred

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo, very nice description. I have to say that my understanding that the fungus grew on their feces... And that is why the fungus can grow in the living tree.

I've got a lot of it here. Here are a few pics...one of a cross cut of a highly ambrosiaed maple, one of a log cut into blanks, and one of a bowl turned from it.

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Thank you Mike :)
Wow that is some beautiful turning wood you have there Mike and the bowl :cool:

You are probably right about the excrement having the fungus spores in them, that would be a natural way of the fungus spores to stay with the beetles and then get into the new brood and carried along again when it consumes the fungus, so yes a continues track of fungus spores growing in the newly chewed wood where the beetle has not eaten but chewed the wood, to be then able to eat the fungus that goes grow on/in the wood, makes cense I'd say :D

[Mike Cruz]

Leo, it is hard to find a mature maple WITHOUT ambrosia in it in my woods. And the area is quite wet (creek bed area). That example I showed in my earlier post was growing IN a swampy area when it came down...perfectly alive and well. A storm brought it down, however. I'm not saying that the beetles don't kill or harm the tree. I have no knowledge either way. I'm also not sure how long it would take for a tree the size of the one I posted pics of earlier (a good 30" at the base and great ambrosia for a good 16-20'), but I have a hard time the tree grew with none, then got all that ambrosia at once. But again, I don't have evidence to support whether it is slow going or fast.

Honestly, I don't know that I've ever "seen" an Ambrosia Beetle in/on any of the trees I've cut up. They are quite small buggers (I've seen pics, though). So, maybe at the point that I've cut the trees, the adults had vacated, but again, I've never seen any larva, either. But I can say that the bark has always been fully in tact. So, whatever damage the beetles do or don't do, it doesn't seem to affect the bark...

[Baxter Smith]

Interesting reading. An uprooted American beech that I cut up last winter was rotten in the center of the trunk. In a couple of the pieces, there were one or two holes that had a small stain to go along with them that were very similar to the ambrosia beetle staining. A sweet gum I cut last spring then left in the woods to spalt over the summer was riddled with holes in spots that looked exactly like the picture in the link Leo posted. I have roughed out several bowls from it that have developed the little piles of white dust on the exterior as well since being turned. (When I opened the bags to check on them)Even found some little beetles though I didnt try and identify them at the time.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Mike I have been digging for some more information, and came across this info, it is quite possible that you have the Asian Ambrosia beetle, it will actually invade just about any broadleaf tree and the fungus can/will kill the tree.

I'll add this link so you can have some more info on this bad bug :eek:

http://www.ugaurbanag.com/content/asian-ambrosia-beetle

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Thanks Baxter, you know since starting this thread I have learned some more, actually bad news, in the same manner the Emerald Ash borer got into the country and it is a killer also.

The Asian Ambrosia beetle has been around for about 35 or 40 years and has gotten a foothold, it is not like the endemic beetle, it actually kills it's host, not the beetle but the fungus it carries along and is pretty hard to control.

Just have a look at the link I put in the previous reply to Mike Cruz

[Mike Cruz]

Yeah, Leo, that Emerald Ash beetle is a terror from what I've heard...

Baxter, are you sure those aren't Powder Post Beetles? Nasty buggers that WILL (and will be quite happy) living in your home and shop. Furiture is NOT off thier list of places to bore into...

[Mike Cruz]

Not saying you are wrong, Leo, but I've never seen any of those saw dust protrusions on any of the trees around here. Also, with the few cherry trees that I've cut up around here, no signs of "activity" in them...

But I'm just guessing...

[Jerry Marcantel]

Mike I have been digging for some more information, and came across this info, it is quite possible that you have the Asian Ambrosia beetle, it will actually invade just about any broadleaf tree and the fungus can/will kill the tree.

I'll add this link so you can have some more info on this bad bug :eek:

http://www.ugaurbanag.com/content/asian-ambrosia-beetle

What I understood from the article, is, Us, as turners, shouldn't be turning this wood. Instead we should burn it, especially if we're turning green wood. Oh well, there goes beauty for the sake of the enviornment. My question to this is, "Are there any Chinese Cherry trees left in the country" since the beetle should have killed all their trees by now? Have the trees developed a cure or resistance to the beetle? Ok, I'm done.............. Jerry (in Tucson)

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Not saying you are wrong, Leo, but I've never seen any of those saw dust protrusions on any of the trees around here. Also, with the few cherry trees that I've cut up around here, no signs of "activity" in them...

But I'm just guessing...

Mike again there's more info. and there's a good chance I was pointing at the wrong beetle species, there is as I pointed out before a large number of these "Ambrosia beetles" and very little was/is actually known of them until very recently, with the DNA studies that have been and are being done, there comes more info out all the time, driven by some extend for the damage that is done to the Avocado trees and others.

All this goes really beyond what this thread was all about, namely the ID-ing of Ambrosia wood so we wouldn't have every stained piece of Maple called Ambrosia Maple, like is happening all to often.

http://www.colorado.edu/eeb/EEBprojects/FiererLab/Hulcr_etal_2012_MicroEcol.pdf

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hs379


What I understood from the article, is, Us, as turners, shouldn't be turning this wood. Instead we should burn it, especially if we're turning green wood. Oh well, there goes beauty for the sake of the environment. My question to this is, "Are there any Chinese Cherry trees left in the country" since the beetle should have killed all their trees by now? Have the trees developed a cure or resistance to the beetle? Ok, I'm done.............. Jerry (in Tucson)

Jerry I don't know if this spread is worse over here because of no natural prevention or like you say the trees have not build up a natural resistance around here, or maybe it is because other bacteria are added to their fungi as they go around in a different environment, just a thought/guess.

Burning one part of a tree if there are numerous branches and or trees around that are infected won't help much IMO, we had this thought around here with the Emerald Ash borer, also no wood was allowed to be moved, however it did NOT prevent the beetles from flying and especially with the wind they can travel very large distances in a short time, maybe the powers that be forgot about this :rolleyes:

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Baxter another thing that I did not address in my reply to you, and I should have.

If I ever found/find wood dust from beetles/bugs in the wood I get two good plastic bags, place the wood in the first bag and add a handful of mothballs in there, close it up good and then double bag with the second plastic bag, this I leave sitting for at least a couple of months, never had any problems after using this on my pieces, but it does take time for this to work it's way in or the bugs to get into contact with it.

[Mike Cruz]

Leo, good point and good job bringing this thread back on track. Ambrosia and stain are two different things. One failsafe way to know the difference is if you see the telltale three little holes made by the ambrosia beetle. If you don't see them, you could very well have nicely stained maple...but not ambrosia maple.